Chain dull in two hours?

[bholler]

> > > See the three highlighted parts in the graphic below < < <


A regular or "pro" chain will have drive links but no guard links.

Low-kickback chains (aka "safety" chains) often include specially shaped drive links called guard links. Guard links have a protrusion that partially covers the depth gauge (raker) of each cutter link. These don't perform as well as regular chains when carving or plunge/bore cutting.

Your Sthil 1/4" pitch chain should have guard links on every cutter link.

View attachment 243378

They don't perform as well as regular chains in any way. But they do reduce the chance of kickback

 

[TreePointer]

They don't perform as well as regular chains in any way. But they do reduce the chance of kickback

I agree.

I do find Stihl RS3 in 3/8 to be pretty good in its early life. The smaller the pitch, the more a safety chain seems to disappoint.

 

[bholler]

I agree.

I do find Stihl RS3 in 3/8 to be pretty good in its early life. The smaller the pitch, the more a safety chain seems to disappoint.

Yeah the one that came on my stihl isn't horrible unless I am cutting something really hard like hickory or rock oak. I think I tossed it now but I am not sure

 

[SpaceBus]

My 3/8 Husqvarna OEM and Oregon chains are both pro style full chisel round ground chains without any kind of guard. I didn't see any guards on my Stihl 150 with either OEM. 1/4 chain, but I can double check soon. Honestly, on that tiny saw, from what you guys are saying I wouldn't want them anyway.

 

[salecker]

If you have a chain that is worth the effort like Stihl...
You can take an angle grinder to the guard links and remove them from use.Takes a few minutes,but after wards
"It Will Cut"

 

[TreePointer]

My 3/8 Husqvarna OEM and Oregon chains are both pro style full chisel round ground chains without any kind of guard. I didn't see any guards on my Stihl 150 with either OEM. 1/4 chain, but I can double check soon. Honestly, on that tiny saw, from what you guys are saying I wouldn't want them anyway.

There are plenty of saw junkies around here, but I think most folks will never run precise comparison tests to realize any difference. Either type of chain should serve a firewood cutter well.

 

[spudman99]

There are plenty of saw junkies around here, but I think most folks will never run precise comparison tests to realize any difference. Either type of chain should serve a firewood cutter well.

You sort of answered my question. For the homeowner type here, who cuts maybe 2 cords a year, is there any advantage to a full chisel versus safety chain? I mean how often/likely is a kickback and then with full PPE is that a significant worry. I cut 2 flowering cherry trees this weekend and with a 32" trunk, my Stihl 251c labored pretty hard on a full depth cut (16" effective cutting bar length). I always wondered if a full chisel would have saved me any appreciable time or effort as it took 15 min or so to cut the trunk around.

 

[bholler]

You sort of answered my question. For the homeowner type here, who cuts maybe 2 cords a year, is there any advantage to a full chisel versus safety chain? I mean how often/likely is a kickback and then with full PPE is that a significant worry. I cut 2 flowering cherry trees this weekend and with a 32" trunk, my Stihl 251c labored pretty hard on a full depth cut (16" effective cutting bar length). I always wondered if a full chisel would have saved me any appreciable time or effort as it took 15 min or so to cut the trunk around.

A kick back is always possible especially when someone isn't used to a saw. And ppe is great but you can still get hurt especially from a kickback. That is why all homeowner grade saws come with safety chains

 

[TreePointer]

You sort of answered my question. For the homeowner type here, who cuts maybe 2 cords a year, is there any advantage to a full chisel versus safety chain? I mean how often/likely is a kickback and then with full PPE is that a significant worry. I cut 2 flowering cherry trees this weekend and with a 32" trunk, my Stihl 251c labored pretty hard on a full depth cut (16" effective cutting bar length). I always wondered if a full chisel would have saved me any appreciable time or effort as it took 15 min or so to cut the trunk around.

While semi-chisel chain will feel less "grabby" than full chisel chain, the shape of the tooth does not determine whether the chain is low-kickback or "safety" chain.

Stihl examples:
RM = seim-chisel, pro (yellow)
RM3 = semi-chisel, low-kickback (green)

RS = full chisel, pro (yellow)
RS3 = full chisel, low-kickback (green)

Essentially, the most common feature I see that makes a chain low-kickback is the guard link, but you'll also see bumper tie straps (tie straps with a protrusion as seen on guard links). These features reduce the amount of wood each cutter link "bites" when the chain traverses the kickback zone of the bar. The kickback zone is the top quadrant of the bar tip.

The best reduction in kickback forces is achieved when using low-kickback chain with a low-kickback bar. A low kickback bar has a smaller diameter at the bar tip. This smaller diameter translates into a smaller kickback zone.

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ON ADVANTAGES:

Low-kickback chains, regardless of tooth shape, don't plunge/bore cut very well. I also find them more difficult to sharpen both when running a round file through and when using a flat file on the depth gauge.

TOOTH SHAPE:

As a separate issue, semi-chisel chain on average will cut a little slower than its full chisel analog. On the other hand, semi-chisel chain often will keep its cutting efficacy longer between sharpening. That's because once the sharp point of a full chisel chain is worn, it loses a lot of it's desired cutting characteristics. For this reason, many sawyers find that semi-chisel chain seems to do better in "dirty" wood that tends to dull chains more quickly.

 

[SpaceBus]

Reading this thread prompted me to do more research on chain maintenance as everything I knew was: make sure it has bar oil, flip the bar and file every two tanks with the guide, and take down the rakers occasionally. After learning about different sharpening products I settled on a Granberg File-N-Jig. This product has changed my life, every cut is effortless. It only takes a few minutes to sharpen a chain. Unless I'm not cutting at home, I think I'll just cut two tanks sharpen and flip the bar rather than save up all my chains for one time. I also have been trying the Humboldt cut and have had some success. Both trees I used it on today fell where I wanted. I did use a winch for the first one, but I probably didn't need it.

 

[spudman99]

@TreePointer has convinced me. The time and effort savings for a 40cc saw used sporadically is not worth the risks associated with a semi-chisel chain. You are also correct that my Stihl bar has the nose slightly more narrow and I never knew why. I wills stay with the green chains and continue to be careful.

 

[SpaceBus]

I cut and fell trees frequently and appreciate the pro style full chisel on the 460. On my tiny Stihl 150 with 1/4" picco chain I like the added safety features as I'm really close to the work with the top handle and 12" bar.

 

[TradEddie]

Stand at the end of the round and cut right through the round from the top side all the way to the ground. (If you have a 20" bar that will take the full length of the bar). That is noodling. If you had stood or pushed the round over on its cut face first and done the same thing that would be ripping.

I learned something new today! I always thought noodling referred to any lengthwise cut.
The way I see it now there are three ways to use a chainsaw to cut up a log that is resistant to splitting:
1) Cut "cookies", in much the same way a saw would be used for cutting logs to size.
2) Ripping: Placing the log vertically and cut downwards. Or bark on ground and cut horizontally, like milling.
3) Noodling: Placing the log with bark on the ground, stand at a round cut end, bar parallel to the bark and cut down to the other side.

The big question: assuming #1 is not ideal for loading a stove, is #2 or #3 less wear on the chain?

TE

 

[SpaceBus]

I learned something new today! I always thought noodling referred to any lengthwise cut.
The way I see it now there are three ways to use a chainsaw to cut up a log that is resistant to splitting:
1) Cut "cookies", in much the same way a saw would be used for cutting logs to size.
2) Ripping: Placing the log vertically and cut downwards. Or bark on ground and cut horizontally, like milling.
3) Noodling: Placing the log with bark on the ground, stand at a round cut end, bar parallel to the bark and cut down to the other side.

The big question: assuming #1 is not ideal for loading a stove, is #2 or #3 less wear on the chain?

TE

#3 is the least wear

 

[TreePointer]

I learned something new today! I always thought noodling referred to any lengthwise cut.
The way I see it now there are three ways to use a chainsaw to cut up a log that is resistant to splitting:
1) Cut "cookies", in much the same way a saw would be used for cutting logs to size.
2) Ripping: Placing the log vertically and cut downwards. Or bark on ground and cut horizontally, like milling.
3) Noodling: Placing the log with bark on the ground, stand at a round cut end, bar parallel to the bark and cut down to the other side.

The big question: assuming #1 is not ideal for loading a stove, is #2 or #3 less wear on the chain?

TE

Let's simplify:
1. Bucking = crosscut a log to make cylindrical rounds
2. Ripping = cut a round from butt end to butt end
3. Noodling = cut a round from bark to bark

Note: A cookie is simply a very short cylinder.