Central Boiler 1400 vs 2400

[huffdawg]

[Armaton[/quote]
That is me. They don't refer potential customers to me, mainly just people who are having a hard time grasping the gasification process. I try to dissuade people from buying conventional OWB's while explaining the benefits of gasifyers.

There is a large "Supercenter" in our state that currently sells P&M boilers, as well as three other brands, and to my knowledge they are the only dealer here.

If you are serious about the cost and availability of a 250, send me a pm and I'll be sure that the proper guys get forwarded the information, or call the number and P&M will send you a price quote. If you don't understand the gasification process, include your telephone number and I'll do my best to explain it to you. If I can't help you, I have friends who sell Central Boiler and Empyre OWB's who will be able to help.[/quote]

Seems like a highly sophisticated form of grandstanding incognitoism I suspect.

 

[martyinmi]

Huff,
You're giving me way too much credit. There isn't too much about me that's highly sophisticated. Grandstanding? Well, maybe a bit. Incognitoism? That mass of letters doesn't form a word.
The bottom line is this: You are finally understanding the points I've been trying to illustrate. That proves that my "highly sophisticated form of grandstanding while remaining in a state of perpetual incognito" is paying off!

 

[Gasifier]

March 15th is coming Tim. :lol:

 

[goosegunner]

That proves that my "highly sophisticated form of grandstanding while remaining in a state of perpetual incognito" is paying off!

Is that the same as "The deception of posting as a overly satisfied homeowner instead of a dealer/consultant"

In retrospect most home users will state the likes and dislikes of their boiler.

gg

 

[Mass Heat]

March 15th is coming Tim. :lol:

Oh I know, trust me! Just had an experienced mechanical engineer at the house, so he could quote me on a install.

 

[Gasifier]

Do you have electrical already in the shed where the boiler will be going?

 

[Mass Heat]

Nope, electric needs to be brought out. Electrician was here as well.

 

[woodsmaster]

I do not mean to start a peeing match, but 12 cord won't be far off, if you used 1200 gals. Maybe 10 cord, but that would be about it.

Ok, I'll bite-
I had a very efficient conventional OWB that I ran for a number of years, and I usually went through 9-12 cords/year. Mid way through last season I made the switch to an Empyre Pro Series 100. My consumption went down to roughly 7.5 or 8 cords for the year(5-6 cords for the first half, 2.5-3 for the second half using the gasifier). Before this burn season, I switched again to the P&M 250. I will not go through 5 cords this year, but it's been very mild. I will go through 6-7 cords/year in an average winter with my gasifier. These are not fictitious numbers pulled out of a hat, they are fact. You need to understand that the technology employed in today's gasifying OWB meets or exceeds what you have. We will lose some heat to the atmosphere, but it is very little. It is a small price to pay to keep the mess,smoke, and insects outdoors where they belong.
Keep in mind that it is not my intention to start a "peeing match" here.

Marty

goose,
What manufacturer of gasifying OWB's that you know of personally puts only 2-4 inches of insulation in their boilers? It sounds as if you are implying that they all do?

What did they do that makes it more efficient than flyingcows tarm ?

 

[willworkforwood]

... Just had an experienced mechanical engineer at the house, so he could quote me on a install.

I don't have enough time, or hip boots tall enough to wade through all the muck in this thread to figure out which boiler you've decided on, so I'll just ask you to re-post what you're planning to buy, and the install location.

 

[Mass Heat]

Leaning towards wood gun at this point. Couple of differences that make the most sense for me. Larger fire box, SS, 10% off, larger built in water capacity, less critical chimney install and better performing unit without storage. However, the Econoburn is a tough unit to pass up on. Especially with the responsiveness from the OEM.

 

[huffdawg]

Leaning towards wood gun at this point. Couple of differences that make the most sense for me. Larger fire box, SS, 10% off, larger built in water capacity, less critical chimney install and better performing unit without storage. However, the Econoburn is a tough unit to pass up on. Especially with the responsiveness from the OEM.

What is a Mechanial Engineers rate per hour MH. Will he let you assist him to save money. The more you can do yourself the better unless you have other commitments of course. Are you planning storage.

Huff

 

[stee6043]

Leaning towards wood gun at this point. Couple of differences that make the most sense for me. Larger fire box, SS, 10% off, larger built in water capacity, less critical chimney install and better performing unit without storage. However, the Econoburn is a tough unit to pass up on. Especially with the responsiveness from the OEM.

What is a Mechanial Engineers rate per hour MH. Will he let you assist him to save money. The more you can do yourself the better unless you have other commitments of course. Are you planning storage.

Huff

A mechanical engineer who is not a Professional Engineer (PE, state licensed, with a seal) might as well be an accountant. Mechanical engineers are a dime a dozen, PE's are not. I believe in most states you can't actually sell your services to the general public as "engineering services" if you are not a PE. If an engineer cannot legally seal the drawings and plans you are buying from them you are wasting your money. You can call it what it is at that point - expensive advice to be followed at your own risk.

HVAC guys are licensed and insured. PE's are licensed and insured. Plain ole engineers may know a lot or a little but they are not experts in anything by default.

 

[Gasifier]

My installers worked for a local HVAC company in a small village of about 10,000 people. One had a two year technical degree in HVAC, the other a one year certificate in HVAC. Both are smart guys. I had no leaks in my system at all, and everything works as it should. I suppose a few things could have been improved upon, but I can not complain. Make sure you know what you want and how you want it done before you hire the installers.

 

[huffdawg]

[ Plain ole engineers may know a lot or a little but they are not experts in anything by default.[/quote]
I'm a plain ole marine engineer I know a little about a whole lot. :lol:

Huff

 

[flyingcow]

I do not mean to start a peeing match, but 12 cord won't be far off, if you used 1200 gals. Maybe 10 cord, but that would be about it.

Ok, I'll bite-
I had a very efficient conventional OWB that I ran for a number of years, and I usually went through 9-12 cords/year. Mid way through last season I made the switch to an Empyre Pro Series 100. My consumption went down to roughly 7.5 or 8 cords for the year(5-6 cords for the first half, 2.5-3 for the second half using the gasifier). Before this burn season, I switched again to the P&M 250. I will not go through 5 cords this year, but it's been very mild. I will go through 6-7 cords/year in an average winter with my gasifier. These are not fictitious numbers pulled out of a hat, they are fact. You need to understand that the technology employed in today's gasifying OWB meets or exceeds what you have. We will lose some heat to the atmosphere, but it is very little. It is a small price to pay to keep the mess,smoke, and insects outdoors where they belong.
Keep in mind that it is not my intention to start a "peeing match" here.

Marty

goose,
What manufacturer of gasifying OWB's that you know of personally puts only 2-4 inches of insulation in their boilers? It sounds as if you are implying that they all do?

What did they do that makes it more efficient than flyingcows tarm ?

I had a hard time being preached to from someone that(supposedly) had the resources to buy 2 OWB's in one year. But before that actually had the balls to say he had "a very efficient OWB" before the last two he bought? And then to explain that his OWB "meets or exceeds what i have"? delusional at best. But, ironically I am impressed(with the videos) of the P&M OWB's. Which we find out that is what he's selling. these OWB's look like they have something serious to offer the gassification crowd.

And by the way, if i was in the same region as Brian(the Effecta dealer) I would buy a boiler from him. HE SPEAKS OF FACTS, no BS..... he represents his business very well........I am trying to look for a grandstand to stand on and speak my mind....where is it.....? ;-)

 

[goosegunner]

What did they do that makes it more efficient than flyingcows tarm ?

I think it might be the R20 insulation around the water jacket sitting outside.


All kidding aside I do like the Portage and Main Gasifier. Especially the way it is set up to clean, which incidentally is the biggest complaint I have about my Econoburn.

gg

 

[woodsmaster]

I also like the Portage and Main from what I've seen. There are a few small isues i've heard of but nothing to get to worried about.
I just dont see that any outdoor gasser is going to be more efficient than an indoor one. I'm not implying that an indoor boiler is for every one either.

 

[Noggah]

Hey Massheat,

How is the search going. I've been following the thread, which got a little off topic, but with good intentions I think. Just wondering if you came to a final decision. You won't regret it no matter which you choose. Alot of work, but worth it in the end. Especially the way things are headed.

 

[Gasifier]

15-5=10 Mass

 

[Mass Heat]

Hey Massheat,

How is the search going. I've been following the thread, which got a little off topic, but with good intentions I think. Just wondering if you came to a final decision. You won't regret it no matter which you choose. Alot of work, but worth it in the end. Especially the way things are headed.

Waiting on a quote for a Wood gun install. If the quote is reasonable, I plan on going this route. If the quote comes in too high, I'll revisit the CB 1450, which is now EPA approved. I plan on making my decision by March 15th.

 

[Noggah]

Awesome, Keep up the good fight.

 

[martyinmi]

Mass Heat,
First time I've checked this thread in a few days. I played a role in the highjacking of your thread. Sorry about that. I'll start my own thread in the future.

Marty

 

[heaterman]

effecta sales guy,

I'm going to be careful too, but I take offense to your grandstanding! When I purchased my E Classic, I was shown the numbers right off the EPA's website. They aren't made up numbers, they were right there along with all the other companies that tested under the EPA's test methods, for a true side by side model comparison. I used this data in my research of these furnaces and it was a factor in my decision to purchase the E Classic. I am now on my 4th winter and couldn't be more satisfied! Is yours tested to the same EPA standard?? I also preferred to keep my 3,500 square foot house and garage heated with a wood furnace that sits outside, no mess inside and I also didn't want to give up one stall in my garage to a gigantic storage tank. You might want to check your "FACTS" before making such "partial truth" accusations!

The sad truth of the matter regarding the EPA test protocol is that it is not worth the paper it is printed on.

The test method bears no resemblance to real world conditions or operation. For example, who of you use kiln dried 4x4 sawn red oak, cribbed and nailed together when you load your stove? That is what the EPA test used. No bark, no variation in loading, no variation in size, no dirt, no debris of any kind. It's lumberyard quality wood, not firewood. That alone skews the results far toward the "clean" side of the spectrum.

There were so many discrepancies in the test results that EPA pulled the efficiency ratings from their website. Manufacturers were claiming efficiency that defied the laws of physics saying their units were reaching 90%+ when routine stack loss measurements indicated less than 50%.

I would not advise anyone to use the EPA White label or Yellow label as an indication of actual performance. It is very much a buyer beware market yet.

 

[wishiwasfishingguy]

Good news was I did get to go fishing over an extended weekend with my son and he caught another trophy walleye! Just logged in and see I must have struck a nerve with a few folks and that was not the intention. Maybe I should have said to effecta salesguy "get off the dang soapbox" instead of grandstanding....I didn't google that definition. Call it what you want. In the end we all want to avoid that gas man filling our tanks! Anyway, it just struck me wrong and I took it personal. I had a traditional outdoor wood furnace that went through 15 cord plus. Now I keep the house PLUS my 3 stall garage at 50 degrees and i've cut that down to 5-7 annually over the last 4 years. Pretty easy to stay a year ahead on my wood suppy (nice and dry) plus I can keep all my vehicles and the boat and toys in my garage. As for emissions, my friend who lives in town wanted to put an E Classic to his house and he had to go to the council to get approval and permit. They, including the city inspector and superintendant were concerned about smoke. Well, 3 years later they had to replace a power line on the block of town he lives on and they had forgot he had a wood furnace...that says something for real world. Bottom line is that this new stove is a definite improvement.

 

[leeeallen]

Massheat- have you looked into the Profab 200 or 400. I have been very satisfied with my 400.