chops67 said:
A woodstove is like a mistress: there's a relationship there: you must cultivate the relationship and tend to her.
A pelletstove is like a hooker: you pay her and she goes away.
Can't Decide Wood or Pellet
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A woodstove is like a mistress: there's a relationship there: you must cultivate the relationship and tend to her.
A pelletstove is like a hooker: you pay her and she goes away.
You have natty gas. You already have cheap and easy heat. You want ambiance and the ability to heat your home in a power outage, if gas gets expensive, or when you just want to play with fire. You want a wood fired appliance. When was the last time you sat around your gas range or BBQ for the ambiance of the fire?
The non-firewood options are simply things people use when they don't have the awesome luxury of a central natty gas furnace.
The non-firewood options are simply things people use when they don't have the awesome luxury of a central natty gas furnace.
I'd take wet1's advice and throw in that even ordering split wood can be much cheaper than the other two options.
It sounds like you have a choice - are you looking for ambiance or function? The impression from your posts is that you're looking for ambiance - I'd go gas. If you're looking for function, then pellet might be best. Either way, wood is a much bigger amt of work than I think you're looking to buy into, remember however that it is also the most independent (no electricity required). The cost of chimney upgrade, installation, etc., might not make fiscal sense though. Pellet is cheaper to vent, comes in big loads of bags, and probably more user-friendly than wood - as has been mentioned it's a lifestyle. We had a gas insert in our last house, and used it throughout the winter to keep the furnace off in most of the house. Cheaper to run, especially on low, and I haven't seen a woodstove with a remote control. That said, remember you posted the question in a forum of wood burners... 
Last year I had a similar dilemna . . . heck, I think most of us have been down the same road you're going . . . with a few differences.
For me I considered lots of heating alternatives when the price of heating oil was climbing through the stratosphere. I wasn't looking for ambiance though . . . I was looking for cheaper heat. I looked at outwood wood boilers, indoor wood boilers (both conventional add-on boilers and high efficiency boilers), low temp heat pumps, pellet stoves and wood stoves.
In the end I had decided on either going with a pellet stove or wood stove . . . and then a few things happened which helped me make up my mind.
Stove availability: At the time there was a real run on pellet stoves and every time I figured out which make/model I might wish to buy I would go to the local stove shop for a price and they would quote me a price . . . and then tell me I couldn't get one until December . . . or January . . . way past the time when I really wanted one. Getting a woodstove however was much easier. For me: Winner = Woodstove.
Fuel availability: I began to think about this. While pellets are a little more convenient, you can place an order and some places will drop the pellets off at your place and you can simply bring them into your basement or garage, stack them up . . . no fuss and no mess. However, as mentioned by another member, I realized that I have access to over 300 acres of family land . . . but I don't own a wood pellet mill . . . so for me it came down to the fact that I could pay a hefty premium for my fuel and be subject to market prices just like oil, or I could pay far less and "harvest" my own fuel. A negative for wood is that you really need to be thinking a year ahead so you can get seasoned wood vs. pellets which you can pretty much order up and use the same day you get them delivered. For me: Winner = Woodstove.
Power outages: Another reason for wanting an alternative heat source is that I frequently lose power in the winter and relying only on an electric-powered oil boiler isn't always the best thing to do. While some pellet stoves can run off a battery, I wanted something that was power-free. For me: Winner = Woodstove.
Maintenance: Pellet stoves do offer the "set it and forget it" feature. You load the hopper, set the temp and the stove will run. Woodstoves take a little more finesse and time. However, while pellet stoves are convenient in this way, they do have more moving parts and as a rule require more maintenance. A co-worker spends a half hour each week maintaining his pellet stove. Me . . . it takes me 10 minutes a week to clean the glass and ashes . . . and another 10 minutes each month to sweep the chimney. For me: Winner = Woodstove.
Danger: Make no mistake, both pellet stoves and woodstoves can pose burn hazards and fire danger. I would suspect however that of the two, wood stoves would be more likely to present the bigger burn and fire danger . . . but I would also wager that the fire danger would be due to improper installs, improper use of the stove (i.e. not using the air control correctly, using green wood, etc.) and not cleaning the chimney on a regular basis (and of course the other big issue -- improperly disposing of the wood ash.) For me: Winner = Pelletstove . . . although I also believe a responsible person can burn wood as safely as pellets or any other fuel . . . the key being they need to realize it's not as easy or as simple as running the oil furnace or gas boiler.
The Ambiance: I've inspected quite a few pellet stoves and seen quite a few gas stoves in operation and I have to tell you . . . hands down . . . a wood burning insert or woodstove beats the look, smell and sound of pelletstoves and gas stoves. A woodstove with the popping and crackling wood, the smell of the wood smoke outside on a crisp fall or winter day, the burning flames . . . yeah, nothing like it. For me: Winner = Hands down, Woodstove.
The Mess: Yeah, woodstoves are more messy. I think a properly working and installed pelletstove and woodstove will be no more or less messy . . . but a woodstove will have the resulting woodchips, sawdust, wood ash, etc. that comes from bringing the wood inside to load the stove . . . and disposing of the wood ash afterwards. For me: Winner = Pelletstove.
Storage: Wood needs quite a bit of room for storage. I mean, a ton of pellets isn't exactly small, but you can store the pellets inside a home's basement or garage easily with little mess. For me: Winner = Woodstove . . . but this is simply due to the fact that I don't have a basement and my garage is used for the cars. I did end up stacking wood out back last winter and now have a woodshed.
Ease of Use: If someone is looking for something comparable to an oil or gas furnace or boiler in terms of just setting the temp and walking away, I think pelletstoves would be the answer. Running a woodstove doesn't require that you be a rocket scientist, but it does take more time to get the fire established and you can't simply set a thermostat and walk away and expect to get good, meaningful (and safe) heat from that heating appliance. For me: Winner = pelletstove.
I think in the end, everyone comes to a different conclusion as to what works for them or not. As one member has said, burning with wood does become more of a way of life rather than just a way of heating your house cheaply.
If someone was looking for just ambiance: I would recommend a wood burning insert or stove . . . followed by the gas fireplace.
If someone was looking for heat and wanted the convenience of "load and go": I would recommend a pelletstove.
If someone has their own wood lot or access to free or cheap wood: I would recommend a woodstove.
For me I considered lots of heating alternatives when the price of heating oil was climbing through the stratosphere. I wasn't looking for ambiance though . . . I was looking for cheaper heat. I looked at outwood wood boilers, indoor wood boilers (both conventional add-on boilers and high efficiency boilers), low temp heat pumps, pellet stoves and wood stoves.
In the end I had decided on either going with a pellet stove or wood stove . . . and then a few things happened which helped me make up my mind.
Stove availability: At the time there was a real run on pellet stoves and every time I figured out which make/model I might wish to buy I would go to the local stove shop for a price and they would quote me a price . . . and then tell me I couldn't get one until December . . . or January . . . way past the time when I really wanted one. Getting a woodstove however was much easier. For me: Winner = Woodstove.
Fuel availability: I began to think about this. While pellets are a little more convenient, you can place an order and some places will drop the pellets off at your place and you can simply bring them into your basement or garage, stack them up . . . no fuss and no mess. However, as mentioned by another member, I realized that I have access to over 300 acres of family land . . . but I don't own a wood pellet mill . . . so for me it came down to the fact that I could pay a hefty premium for my fuel and be subject to market prices just like oil, or I could pay far less and "harvest" my own fuel. A negative for wood is that you really need to be thinking a year ahead so you can get seasoned wood vs. pellets which you can pretty much order up and use the same day you get them delivered. For me: Winner = Woodstove.
Power outages: Another reason for wanting an alternative heat source is that I frequently lose power in the winter and relying only on an electric-powered oil boiler isn't always the best thing to do. While some pellet stoves can run off a battery, I wanted something that was power-free. For me: Winner = Woodstove.
Maintenance: Pellet stoves do offer the "set it and forget it" feature. You load the hopper, set the temp and the stove will run. Woodstoves take a little more finesse and time. However, while pellet stoves are convenient in this way, they do have more moving parts and as a rule require more maintenance. A co-worker spends a half hour each week maintaining his pellet stove. Me . . . it takes me 10 minutes a week to clean the glass and ashes . . . and another 10 minutes each month to sweep the chimney. For me: Winner = Woodstove.
Danger: Make no mistake, both pellet stoves and woodstoves can pose burn hazards and fire danger. I would suspect however that of the two, wood stoves would be more likely to present the bigger burn and fire danger . . . but I would also wager that the fire danger would be due to improper installs, improper use of the stove (i.e. not using the air control correctly, using green wood, etc.) and not cleaning the chimney on a regular basis (and of course the other big issue -- improperly disposing of the wood ash.) For me: Winner = Pelletstove . . . although I also believe a responsible person can burn wood as safely as pellets or any other fuel . . . the key being they need to realize it's not as easy or as simple as running the oil furnace or gas boiler.
The Ambiance: I've inspected quite a few pellet stoves and seen quite a few gas stoves in operation and I have to tell you . . . hands down . . . a wood burning insert or woodstove beats the look, smell and sound of pelletstoves and gas stoves. A woodstove with the popping and crackling wood, the smell of the wood smoke outside on a crisp fall or winter day, the burning flames . . . yeah, nothing like it. For me: Winner = Hands down, Woodstove.
The Mess: Yeah, woodstoves are more messy. I think a properly working and installed pelletstove and woodstove will be no more or less messy . . . but a woodstove will have the resulting woodchips, sawdust, wood ash, etc. that comes from bringing the wood inside to load the stove . . . and disposing of the wood ash afterwards. For me: Winner = Pelletstove.
Storage: Wood needs quite a bit of room for storage. I mean, a ton of pellets isn't exactly small, but you can store the pellets inside a home's basement or garage easily with little mess. For me: Winner = Woodstove . . . but this is simply due to the fact that I don't have a basement and my garage is used for the cars. I did end up stacking wood out back last winter and now have a woodshed.
Ease of Use: If someone is looking for something comparable to an oil or gas furnace or boiler in terms of just setting the temp and walking away, I think pelletstoves would be the answer. Running a woodstove doesn't require that you be a rocket scientist, but it does take more time to get the fire established and you can't simply set a thermostat and walk away and expect to get good, meaningful (and safe) heat from that heating appliance. For me: Winner = pelletstove.
I think in the end, everyone comes to a different conclusion as to what works for them or not. As one member has said, burning with wood does become more of a way of life rather than just a way of heating your house cheaply.
If someone was looking for just ambiance: I would recommend a wood burning insert or stove . . . followed by the gas fireplace.
If someone was looking for heat and wanted the convenience of "load and go": I would recommend a pelletstove.
If someone has their own wood lot or access to free or cheap wood: I would recommend a woodstove.
A gas fireplace has only a little bit more ambiance than a bic lighter. The entire purpose of those old masonry wood burning fireplaces was pure ambiance. Wood is ambiance, gas is like watching a picture of a wood fire. Why not buy that movie of a burning fireplace like they have at Xmas? What gas brings to the party is superior function and dependability than a pellet stove since there are no moving parts and only the one optional blower.
It sounds like a wood stove insert with a ton of pressed wood bricks might offer you the most flexibility of all. Pressed bricks have become widely available in the East now (full disclosure- I produce Liberty Bricks, but there are at least two other producers closer to south Jersey). If you get tired of finding your own wood, you can use bricks at about the same cost as pellets, but the fire is much more attractive and you will still have most of your heat available when the power fails. If you really get into the woodcutting lifestyle, you can use bricks to start fires and make burning greenish firewood safer. You could also use bricks the first season while your wood dries. Bricks are much neater than firewood and even a little neater than pellets for most. My friend really likes the fact that he can keep the equivalent of a cord of wood in bricks on his porch and have several days worth of fuel in a closet. He did have to get a chest to store the bricks by his stove because his wire-haired daschunds liked to chew the bricks.
Wow, I really appreciate all of the replies. I think I'm going to get the wood insert. I am the outdoorsy type. I am not trying to heat the house with wood alone. But it might be worth it to me later if gas goes through the roof. I see myself lighting fires on the really cold days and when entertaining or whenever else I want. Besides what the worst that can happen if I don't enjoy it. Ebay or Graigs list.
I looked at the Regency I3100 and the PE summit, Any thoughts?
I looked at the Regency I3100 and the PE summit, Any thoughts?
Fuelmaker said:
This answer makes a whole lot of sense to me. Last year I bought a wood insert and also bought six tons of BioBricks (I also burned about a cord of scrounged wood). BioBricks, even at about $250/ton in the summer of 2008 were a lot cheaper than oil, which was approaching $5.00/gallon at that time.
This year it will be almost all scrounged wood as I was able to process about six cords last fall. But I still have a couple of tons of BioBricks left and they'll get used too. Next year it may be all cordwood but that will depend upon my ability to scrounge, or the cost of delivered would, or the cost of BioBricks or EnviLogs or whatever.
In my opinion the wood stove gives you the best option as you can go with a processed product and/or cordwood. With the pellet stove only the processed, and often expensive, option will ever be available.
chops67 said:
Well, we are going to recommend a wood insert, this is the wood stove forum.
When we built our house, we wanted a wood stove for times when the power was out, we would still have heat. We found that when gas (LP) was cheap, we liked our gas furnace, but would try to burn wood 24/7 three or four of the coldest weeks to save money on the gas bill, and it saved significantly. Of course we have had a few winters where power has been out for more than 3 days at a time, and we were able to heat the house.
You might want to start another post with details of your house layout, your fireplace dimensions and location in the house, so we can overwhelm you with our opinion of what insert to buy. It is so much fun when it is someone else's money.
chops67 said:
Well now that you've made up your mind about getting a wood insert I feel compelled to warn you . . . it's addictive. You may only think you'll burn when the power goes out . . . or on really cold days . . . or when entertaining . . . or when the price of gas skyrockets . . . but if you're like many of us you'll soon come to love the warm heat radiating from the stove, the sounds of a crackling fire, the smell of the woodsmoke when you go outside for another load of wood, the flames and light show from the secondaries firing off . . . and then you'll be one of us . . . and will want to burn a lot more often than you originally intended.
We are the Woodburners. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
Bigg_Redd said:
LMAO...Well put! Confucius is envious here.
Plus with wood...you get to saw, haul, split, stack...When done, turn and aim at the nearest hifaluting gym with bowflexicators and 6packabdominators and go "PFFFSSSSSSTTTTTT!"
To save $$ a ductless air source heat pump around 12000-18000 BTU's will far beat even the cost of cutting your own wood. There, I said it... We have the highest KW/H rates in Canada and a 1000 watt heat pump running for 12 hours/day costs me $55/month.
I'd do wood/pellet for reasons other than financial (even though you can save considerably with wood) -- it's just that the technology on heat pumps in the past 5 years has really advanced.
I'd do wood/pellet for reasons other than financial (even though you can save considerably with wood) -- it's just that the technology on heat pumps in the past 5 years has really advanced.
Pulled the trigger and bought the Regency I3100. Installed it today. Had a cord of wood dropped off as well. Started first burn 3 hours ago. This rules. It's not even cold out but what the hell.
This may be a little off topic.. but members of our co-op have been exploring what the advantages of rekindling that morning fire in their cordwood stove with Vermont wood pellets... They say less "start-up" smoke, faster initial heat output. the question they pose is what if any are the long term advantages (other than air quality) with such a program?
"We heat with cordwood with a Jotul F400(and to some extent with passive solar). I picked up some pellets from Laura last night and tried them out. A mound burned fine without a basket. It took a while for the secondary air to kick in, but the burn was like a forge or charcoal BBQ. I used them to start fires this morning and this afternoon under split hardhack. Worked great. I think pellets may have the potential to bring up firebox temperature quickly and to cut back the smoky fire time as a fire is started or wood is added. They could have a synergistic effect with cordwood like catalytic elements were supposed to.That said, I'd like to try some type of downdraft gasifier column for pellet only burns --sort of like the basket."
"We heat with cordwood with a Jotul F400(and to some extent with passive solar). I picked up some pellets from Laura last night and tried them out. A mound burned fine without a basket. It took a while for the secondary air to kick in, but the burn was like a forge or charcoal BBQ. I used them to start fires this morning and this afternoon under split hardhack. Worked great. I think pellets may have the potential to bring up firebox temperature quickly and to cut back the smoky fire time as a fire is started or wood is added. They could have a synergistic effect with cordwood like catalytic elements were supposed to.That said, I'd like to try some type of downdraft gasifier column for pellet only burns --sort of like the basket."
chops67 said:
Quoting from above: "We are the Woodburners. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."
Damn, that did not take long at all. Welcome and I have a sneaking suspicion you're gonna love it.
It depends largely on your motivation.
I chose wood, because I wanted a heating source that was free of market force prices (I can cut my own wood), as well as anticipated taxation added onto the fuel source that is on the horizon.
In a word, "freedom" is the key word here, and wood gives me the most freedom.
As to starting the fire, I just use a few small scraps of plain wood dried lumber, with a $15 propane torch to start it.
Easy as falling off a log.
I chose wood, because I wanted a heating source that was free of market force prices (I can cut my own wood), as well as anticipated taxation added onto the fuel source that is on the horizon.
In a word, "freedom" is the key word here, and wood gives me the most freedom.
As to starting the fire, I just use a few small scraps of plain wood dried lumber, with a $15 propane torch to start it.
Easy as falling off a log.
dougand3 said:
This definitely sounds like something I'd say, but I completely forgot I said it. That's hilarious.
Love burnin. A bit of work but well worth it. On my second cord. Have to buy. First was mixed. Wasn't over the top happy with the supply. Second is all oak seems to seasond pretty good. I been fireing up some worksite 2x4's split down to get the blaze started. The oak has been burning well. I'll have to get some pics for you guys. Been very buzy.
chops67 said:
We had a Yankee Pellet Stove installed about 4 years ago and have been very glad we did. Two years ago we bought some land and with the price of pellets rising each year we had a Lopi Liberty woodstove installed, works out great we can run the pellet stove or the Lopi Liberty.
Zap
BrotherBart said:
I'm just crazy about the gas stoves I've been seeing at the local stove store, particularly the Jotuls. They really crank out the heat and they are so adjustable. No tax credit for them, however. And for me... I can't get natural gas out here in the country.
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