Can you help me compare these dutchwest stoves?
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Hello again,
I think I've said this before, but I've heated my house with an $80 stove for this season and part of last year. Again, more money doesn't always mean a better stove. I was told by a lady, who along with her husband, refurbishes stoves up in Vermont, that my Surdiac wasn't a good stove. But this stove was fabricated by Foundries du Lion in Belgium, which has been in business probably since before the US was even called a country! This foundry continues to fabricate Effel and Nestor Martin stoves. The point is, there is always someone who is willing to share a negative opinion. Go with your gut!
I agree with Fossil, an insert is great. But, if you lose power, it probably will not heat your house without the blower. At least, not as well as a free standing stove. Blowers=noise= incresed electricity use. If your ok with that, then fine. I would not install somethig in my living room that needs a blower to move the heat. But that's just me. Another thing, I wouldn't put the stove inside the fireplace because you'll lose some heat. I would put it on the hearth pad of the fireplace (making sure that all clearance requirements are met.) In that case you'll need a rear exhaust. In my opinion, this is the best way to get heat out of a fireplace stove (I have one inside a fireplace, a lot of its heat goes away even with the block off plate.) Have you given up on cast iron? It holds heat and radiates nicely. Good luck.
I think I've said this before, but I've heated my house with an $80 stove for this season and part of last year. Again, more money doesn't always mean a better stove. I was told by a lady, who along with her husband, refurbishes stoves up in Vermont, that my Surdiac wasn't a good stove. But this stove was fabricated by Foundries du Lion in Belgium, which has been in business probably since before the US was even called a country! This foundry continues to fabricate Effel and Nestor Martin stoves. The point is, there is always someone who is willing to share a negative opinion. Go with your gut!
I agree with Fossil, an insert is great. But, if you lose power, it probably will not heat your house without the blower. At least, not as well as a free standing stove. Blowers=noise= incresed electricity use. If your ok with that, then fine. I would not install somethig in my living room that needs a blower to move the heat. But that's just me. Another thing, I wouldn't put the stove inside the fireplace because you'll lose some heat. I would put it on the hearth pad of the fireplace (making sure that all clearance requirements are met.) In that case you'll need a rear exhaust. In my opinion, this is the best way to get heat out of a fireplace stove (I have one inside a fireplace, a lot of its heat goes away even with the block off plate.) Have you given up on cast iron? It holds heat and radiates nicely. Good luck.
I prefer stoves that use the least amount of refractory materials as these tend to be fragile.. Some manufacturers protect the delicate refractory materials with stainless or similar sheet metal, a very good idea ( I think the PE has this feature?).. The Jotuls from what someone mentioned here used cast iron plates instead which last pretty much forever at least they have in my stove.. The soapstone users seem very happy with them and they look great too but they're quite expensive.. Depends on what you want in a stove I don't like the idea of repairing the stove I just want it to work and require very little attention..
Ray
Ray
I thought fiskars were those little hairs that sprout from either side of a cats nose...Now I'm all confused
Not to throw another one in the mix, but have you looked at Napoleon stoves? They are reasonably priced and seem to have good specs. Check out the thread with the napoleon 1900 title.
Specifications Model 1900
Emissions(grams per hour) 2.8
Width x Height x Depth (inches) 25 1/2 x 33 1/4 x 31 1/2
Firebox Chamber (W.H.D.) (inches) 18 x 12 x 22 1/2
Firebox Capacity 3.0 cu. ft.
Weight without bricks 285 lbs.
Weight of Bricks 114 lbs.
Approximate Area Heated* sq. ft. 1,000 - 3,500+
Heat output BTU/h** 11,800 - 34,000
Heat Output BTU/h (high burn)*** 85,000 BTU
Burn Time (low fire)* 12 hours
Catalytic combustor no
Mobile home approved no
R-2000 approved (Canada) yes
Max. log size 20"
Outside combustion air yes
Blower kit available yes
Flue diameter 6"
Specifications Model 1900
Emissions(grams per hour) 2.8
Width x Height x Depth (inches) 25 1/2 x 33 1/4 x 31 1/2
Firebox Chamber (W.H.D.) (inches) 18 x 12 x 22 1/2
Firebox Capacity 3.0 cu. ft.
Weight without bricks 285 lbs.
Weight of Bricks 114 lbs.
Approximate Area Heated* sq. ft. 1,000 - 3,500+
Heat output BTU/h** 11,800 - 34,000
Heat Output BTU/h (high burn)*** 85,000 BTU
Burn Time (low fire)* 12 hours
Catalytic combustor no
Mobile home approved no
R-2000 approved (Canada) yes
Max. log size 20"
Outside combustion air yes
Blower kit available yes
Flue diameter 6"
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I did originally look at Napoleons and have not ruled them out. There's a shop right up the street that sells them, but I swore I would not buy from that guy, though I have no problem window shopping his beautiful showroom.
Maybe he'll treat you differently now that your loaded with knowledge from all your research. Just throw some stove lingo at him to throw him off his pedestal! Maybe then it would be a different experience.
Although, if you're looking for a good bargain, one can't help but to consider the Englanders. Since you seem to be considering the steel stoves! Their 30 NC only goes for 900-1000 retail. This time of year, you can probably find them on sale in the big box stores, plus get the 30% tax rebate. As much as I hate the thought of giving them any more sales than they already have, these are a bargain. There are also many happy Englander users here.
http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/30-nc.html
Lots of Great Features!
One of the most advanced, most unique large firebox wood burners (ours has 3.5 cu. ft.) ...
Super-clean burn (1.63 grams/hr.) makes this the cleanest-burning large firebox on the market!
Potential of 75,000+ BTU's* when burning seasoned cordwood.
High-tech firebox design (non-catalytic) for cleaner burn, more heat and more efficient burn times.
E.P.A. Certified!
*75,000+ BTU's achieved under in-house test lab conditions.
More Features!
Side heat shield available for even closer clearances.
Mobile Home approved! (with pedestal only)
Heats approx. 2,200 sq. ft.
Convenient ash drawer for easier ash removal.
Accepts up to 20" logs.
6" top exhaust.
Arched door design with extra-large
11 1/4" x 15 1/8" door glass.
Built-in air wash system for cleaner glass.
Rear heat shield standard.
Now includes pedestal AND cast legs!
Note: Pedestal and legs (cast or gold) interchange; gold legs may be ordered as options at any time.
Although, if you're looking for a good bargain, one can't help but to consider the Englanders. Since you seem to be considering the steel stoves! Their 30 NC only goes for 900-1000 retail. This time of year, you can probably find them on sale in the big box stores, plus get the 30% tax rebate. As much as I hate the thought of giving them any more sales than they already have, these are a bargain. There are also many happy Englander users here.
http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/30-nc.html
Lots of Great Features!
One of the most advanced, most unique large firebox wood burners (ours has 3.5 cu. ft.) ...
Super-clean burn (1.63 grams/hr.) makes this the cleanest-burning large firebox on the market!
Potential of 75,000+ BTU's* when burning seasoned cordwood.
High-tech firebox design (non-catalytic) for cleaner burn, more heat and more efficient burn times.
E.P.A. Certified!
*75,000+ BTU's achieved under in-house test lab conditions.
More Features!
Side heat shield available for even closer clearances.
Mobile Home approved! (with pedestal only)
Heats approx. 2,200 sq. ft.
Convenient ash drawer for easier ash removal.
Accepts up to 20" logs.
6" top exhaust.
Arched door design with extra-large
11 1/4" x 15 1/8" door glass.
Built-in air wash system for cleaner glass.
Rear heat shield standard.
Now includes pedestal AND cast legs!
Note: Pedestal and legs (cast or gold) interchange; gold legs may be ordered as options at any time.
Attachments
![[Hearth.com] Can you help me compare these dutchwest stoves?](/talk/data/attachments/25/25666-8b45335a7afef11e815573f6c538efeb.jpg?hash=CjpRIRnzmh)
BeGreen said:Maybe a bit overkill for a 950 sq ft cabin in lower NC, no?hh: This ain't Vermont.
I agree, but for the price how can you go wrong? I guess either of the smaller models would do the job too. The 13NC or the 12. Considering the lack of insulation I would not go lower than the 13-NC. But it's nice to have a large firebox that fits bigger logs, especially for the length of the burn! So, I would still recommend the 30-NC!
13-NC FEATURES:
Potential of up to 60,000 BTU's*
when burning seasoned cordwood!
Convenient ash drawer for easier ash removal.
Heats up to 1,800 sq. ft.
Accepts up to 18" logs.
6" top exhaust.
Now includes cast legs AND pedestal!
Extra-large 9 1/4" x 16 1/2" door glass.
Built-in air wash system for cleaner glass.
High-tech XBT (TM) firebox design (non-catalytic) for cleaner burn, more heat and more efficiency!
Rear heat shield standard.
Side heat shield available for even closer clearances.
Outside Air Hook-Up.
Mobile Home approved! (with pedestal only)
E.P.A. Certified!
*60,000 BTU's achieved under in-house test lab conditions
Too big a stove can be like getting groceries with a dump truck. It will work, but a tad inconvenient and not very fuel efficient. I would think the big boy would be a PITA for burning during the shoulder seasons in a small house. Definitely don't go for the 12, it is not an EPA stove. The PE Spectrum or T5 is 2 cu ft. and will give the longest burns over a wide range of burning conditions. It also doesn't use baffleboard and a blanket for less maintenance and lower long term costs. But a Lopi, or a Buck 2 cu ft stove would also work well here.
Although, I have heard many times on this site that " it's easier to light a small fire in a large firebox than to try to ovrlight a small firebox." 
However, this may not be fitting in this case. Right?
However, this may not be fitting in this case. Right?
Didn't say it wouldn't work. It just wouldn't be my first choice for this installation. A good match depends on the stove and the house. We have a big stove that burns pretty well with just a few sticks. However, our house is 2000 sq ft. with a very open floor plan. However, we don't burn much when it gets over 50 °F. Henderson, NC is also a milder climate than MA. If the cabin was in VT or ME, then maybe a big 30NC might work out ok.
The idea of a small fire in a large firebox might work in a smoke dragon, but is bunk for a modern stove. There's a good chance that the stove will never get up to temperature that way. If it doesn't, the burn will be inefficient and dirty. In shoulder seasons, we still get a hot fire going so that there is good secondary combustion. Then we just let it go out. If we had a 2 cu ft stove, we would just burn a bit longer. FWIW, a 2 cu ft Spectrum has the longest measured burntime by the unofficial testing at thechimneysweep.
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacsup27.htm)
The idea of a small fire in a large firebox might work in a smoke dragon, but is bunk for a modern stove. There's a good chance that the stove will never get up to temperature that way. If it doesn't, the burn will be inefficient and dirty. In shoulder seasons, we still get a hot fire going so that there is good secondary combustion. Then we just let it go out. If we had a 2 cu ft stove, we would just burn a bit longer. FWIW, a 2 cu ft Spectrum has the longest measured burntime by the unofficial testing at thechimneysweep.
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacsup27.htm)
I'm in Hendersonville in the western mountains. Henderson is eastern NC and a milder climate. Our temperatures run about the same as my home state of RI. I know because my mother obsessively checks the weather channel for both. We just had another snow storm blow through yesterday.
But yes, I would go for the 13.
But yes, I would go for the 13.
Another stove might be the Napoleon 1450 that ColdNH just posted about. They also are pretty cost effective heaters. If you want an Englander, start calling around to every HomeDepot and Lowes store today. They are clearing out inventory for spring mowers and tractor space. The stoves will be gone in a week or two. (I think Lowes sells the Summer's Heat line, which is the same stove).
Thanks again BG, for clarifying these scenarios for us! Its hard for me to imagine the temps in NC. I'm in the north west part of Worcester County stuck between Wachusset Mountain and the Berkshires. It's often colder here than in New Hampshire, Vermont or Maine. As an average it isn't but there are many times when it is. We have winter days with negative teens and wind chills of up to negative 50. I know I've worked outdoors during some of those arctic freezes. :grrr:
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