Can stove inserts work without blowers?

[SlyFerret]

Hi again,
I've been researching stoves, inserts, and chimneys, etc, and I've managed to confuse myself.

Do stove inserts require their blowers to be running in order to be effective? They would seem to have an awful lot of the stove recessed into the fireplace to transfer heat to the air effectively, but I'm not sure.

If I want a source of heat even if the power is out, do I have to look at free standing stoves only?

Thanks!
-SF

 

[Corie]

yes, the majority of heat transfer from inserts is via convection from the blower. You will get heat without the blower running, but I think most of the insert owners here will tell you that the blower is essential.

 

[TMonter]

I heat about 1600 to 1800 square feet of my house with a Quadrafire 3100i and no blower. While I do believe to some extent it depends on the design of the stove, not all inserts require a blower. Remember you don't have to transfer all of your heat with convective transfer with an insert, a good portion is done through radiant heating. I have a different opinion than a lot of people here on this, but this is based on one stove model and personal experience with a couple others.

 

[Corie]

Right, but since a large part of the radiation emitting surfaces of the stove are sending their thermal energy into the walls of the fireplace, you're only getting true radiant heat transfer to the room from the front face of the stove and the limited area of the sides of the insert which is exposed to the room.

 

[TMonter]

And heat from natural convection through the shroud. Not all of the heat without a blower comes from radiant. When I feel the outlet slot of my 3100i you can feel a breeze when the stove is going.

I recommend buying the insert without the blower and buying the blower after the fact if you find you need it.

If you've got good combustion and stack temps of at least 275-280 you're not losing any more heat out of the flue and it's still ending up in your house.

 

[CrazyAboutOrchids]

We have a Lopi Freedom insert installed out on the hearth as far as it will go. We've run it without a blower for 3 years now with no complaints. I use a silent corner fan installed in the upper corner of the doorway to move air out to the rest of the house. We have a 2500 sq ft colonial wihtout an open floor plan. The insert heats the main floor of the house with some heat making it upstairs.

Our dealertold us when we bought it to run it without a blower before investing the money into one. It runs very effectively without it. I think the blower/no blower thing with inserts depends on the model you buy. Some are made to run fine without it, some require the blower. Check out Lopi or Avalon models for 2 brands (same manufacturer) that can go without a blower.

 

[webbie]

Yes, the keys are the size and shape of the convection chamber as well as the amount of radiant surface which extends onto the hearth....especially single wall surface.

Some inserts can also be installed without the surround panels, which adds even more heat.

 

[Rhone]

I wouldn't worry too much about the power issue with inserts. They can be run without the blowers, it's different. Once you're used to having the luxury of how well the blowers heat and spread it around it's hard to go back. Regardless I wouldn't base a purchase to a stove on power only, inserts heat without power but you have to burn a little more wood while the powers out and their heat isn't as even as when the insert is forcing all the air in your house to cycle through it every hour. There are other reasons to pick a stove but how often do you lose power for more than a day? In the last 20 years it's only happened once to me, had I picked a stove based on the fact that it heats a little better for that one time in 20 years I lose power for an extended period of time is rather silly, meanwhile I'm happier I have an insert for the other 3,649 days I use it for heating because I do love its blowers forces all the air in my house to heat to 150-175F every hour and then repeats.

One issue with inserts I find is usually their "cooking surface" is insulated so you can't actually cook on it, a stove you can. An insert, and stove, heat differently. A stove is much better at heating the room it's in and all objects in said room, because it creates some radiant (a form of heat that can only be utilized around the stove) and some convection heat (heated air that can travel to other areas). An insert (or convection wood stove) converts the radiant heat into additional amounts of convection so it creates more heated air than a stove and it spreads around and goes to other areas of your house. That usually equates to stoves being better room heaters and take a hit on heating a house and its extremeties and an insert being better at heating the house and it's extremeties but take a hit on being a room heater. Since stoves are better at heating the room and all objects in that room, my in-laws who are getting up there in age love them. They are happy as clams sitting near their stove feeling like it's 80F+ while it heats the rest of their house as well. I find that unbearable and have to head outside to cool off but I can sit and enjoy my insert while my whole house is being heated. When my in-laws come to my place, they wonder why the room with the insert doesn't feel like it's 80F+ and very surprised how much better the whole house is heated by an insert, they find it better than their stove in that regard. But, they're also disappointed that the room it's in doesn't feel as hot as their stove. One day they wanted my insert to heat like their stove and asked me to put more wood into it. Long story short, inserts don't heat the room they're in, they heat the whole house so for me to get the room up to 85F I kept loading it up until my whole house reached 85F. If you're people that spend a lot of time in other areas of your house, want the heat to spread around, or want to heat the extremeties of your house an insert or what's called a convection wood stove is probably a better choice. My in-laws like the way stoves heat, I like the way inserts heat. Each their own, depends on your expectations and house layout but it's important to realize they do heat different.

 

[smirnov3]

Another issue for how necessary a fan is on an insert - if you have a colonial or any house with a chimney on the side of the house, you are more likely to need a fan than if your chimney is centrally located

 

[velvetfoot]

Our insert takes up a lot less room (virtually no extra space on hearth) but it benefits from the fan for sure. I would hope that unceasing burning sans fan during an outage wouldn't heat the surroundings of the stove too much.

 

[burntime]

I have the Hampton insert (regency twin) and when its cold the blower is needed to get the heat out. The blower will actually get the ceiling fan turning when it is off! I would suggest the blower. Don't worry about the 60 wats or so a blower takes. You'll be scrounging more than enough wood to make up for the 80 cents a month the electricity cost to run the blower. Also, the outer most regieons of the home will be warmer. The wife will thank you for that one.

 

[rmcfall]

If a blower were placed behind a woodstove, would that not accomplish the same effect as an insert?

 

[yankeediesel]

My insert blower rarely ever stops blowing whne its cold, when it is mild I run it on low or off but when its cold you really need it, we had a storm last year and had no power for 24 hours in the cold and without the blower I had to stay in the line of site of the insert to stay warm, if you could see the insert you were fine but go around the corner and it got cold real fast, they are not like a stove, they are tucked in there nice and snung and the blower is awesome at getting the max efficiency out of your insert. I lun my blower 24/7 and it costs me just under $8 per month per my kill a watt meter for the electricity, not bad considering my insert has totaly eliminated my dependancy on oil heat, 100% wood heat.

 

[Roospike]

I have a freestanding wood stove and i placed a blower on the floor behind the stove and it makes a lot off difference of heat transfer even just running it on 1/3 power .


Now if it makes that much difference with a free standing stove .......................

 

[Willhound]

I wouldn't run my Summit insert without it. The difference is night and day. In fact, it can be used as a temperature variable, in that in warmer weather I'll run the fan at a lower speed to keep from overheating the room, and at colder temps at a higher speed, or full blast.
Of course, on the Summit the blower is built in, not an option and has a nifty infinitely variable speed control and either a manual off/on, or temperature controlled off/on. I set it and forget it. I turn it off to load, otherwise it blows ash around a bit, but otherwise it stays on all the time.

 

[rmcfall]

Do you believe your fan accomplishes more than a regular ceiling fan in the same room as the stove? And do you have it set on some sort of thermostat or something so that it blows more when the stove is hot, less when it is more cool, etc...?

I have a freestanding wood stove and i placed a blower on the floor behind the stove and it makes a lot off difference of heat transfer even just running it on 1/3 power .


Now if it makes that much difference with a free standing stove .......................

 

[Roospike]

Do you believe your fan accomplishes more than a regular ceiling fan in the same room as the stove? And do you have it set on some sort of thermostat or something so that it blows more when the stove is hot, less when it is more cool, etc...?

I have a freestanding wood stove and i placed a blower on the floor behind the stove and it makes a lot off difference of heat transfer even just running it on 1/3 power .


Now if it makes that much difference with a free standing stove .......................

I dont know about the ceiling fan question. When i light the stove for the first time in the spring the ceiling fan gets turned to draw and turned on and it doesn't get turned off until late spring.
My ceiling fan and stove blower run 24/7 and i don't get any hot pockets in the house.

The blower on the stove pull cool air to the stove and rolls heat off the stove , the ceiling fan distributes heat around the room and the house. The fan & blower are doing different jobs with the heat.

I ran the stove without a blower for a few months when new but decided to get a blower and it improved heating efficiency at least 1/3 and more over all in the house.

 

[rmcfall]

I may have to give one of those blowers a try. Where did you find yours? Is it very noisy?

Do you believe your fan accomplishes more than a regular ceiling fan in the same room as the stove? And do you have it set on some sort of thermostat or something so that it blows more when the stove is hot, less when it is more cool, etc...?

I have a freestanding wood stove and i placed a blower on the floor behind the stove and it makes a lot off difference of heat transfer even just running it on 1/3 power .


Now if it makes that much difference with a free standing stove .......................

I dont know about the ceiling fan question. When i light the stove for the first time in the spring the ceiling fan gets turned to draw and turned on and it doesn't get turned off until late spring.
My ceiling fan and stove blower run 24/7 and i don't get any hot pockets in the house.

The blower on the stove pull cool air to the stove and rolls heat off the stove , the ceiling fan distributes heat around the room and the house. The fan & blower are doing different jobs with the heat.

I ran the stove without a blower for a few months when new but decided to get a blower and it improved heating efficiency at least 1/3 and more over all in the house.

 

[BrotherBart]

When i light the stove for the first time in the spring the ceiling fan gets turned to draw and turned on and it doesn't get turned off until late spring.

I don't light mine until Fall, but then it takes less time to heat up than a Summit does.


The blower on the stove pull cool air to the stove and rolls heat off the stove...

Totally agree. Mine does too.

Any insert should have a blower. The one I had for twenty one years performed better with the blower even though it did fine when the power was out. My current stove is a free stander sitting half in and half out of the fireplace and it defiantly performs better with the blower.

Going ahead and getting it at install time is a cheap way to avoid lugging the insert out to install it later. Of course if it just gets bolted on the front then no sweat waiting.

 

[sgcsalsero]

Hi again,
I've been researching stoves, inserts, and chimneys, etc, and I've managed to confuse myself.

Do stove inserts require their blowers to be running in order to be effective? They would seem to have an awful lot of the stove recessed into the fireplace to transfer heat to the air effectively, but I'm not sure.

If I want a source of heat even if the power is out, do I have to look at free standing stoves only?

Thanks!
-SF

The blower may come at no extra charge or the dealer may throw in for free to sweeten the deal . . my blower on high is a tad bit noiser than I wished it were, I used I had a more variable setting (just High/Low) . .

 

[Roospike]

I may have to give one of those blowers a try. Where did you find yours? Is it very noisy?

Do you believe your fan accomplishes more than a regular ceiling fan in the same room as the stove? And do you have it set on some sort of thermostat or something so that it blows more when the stove is hot, less when it is more cool, etc...?

I have a freestanding wood stove and i placed a blower on the floor behind the stove and it makes a lot off difference of heat transfer even just running it on 1/3 power .


Now if it makes that much difference with a free standing stove .......................

I dont know about the ceiling fan question. When i light the stove for the first time in the spring the ceiling fan gets turned to draw and turned on and it doesn't get turned off until late spring.
My ceiling fan and stove blower run 24/7 and i don't get any hot pockets in the house.

The blower on the stove pull cool air to the stove and rolls heat off the stove , the ceiling fan distributes heat around the room and the house. The fan & blower are doing different jobs with the heat.

I ran the stove without a blower for a few months when new but decided to get a blower and it improved heating efficiency at least 1/3 and more over all in the house.

I got it from the link below dealer..................

" Heat & Glo GFK-160A Fan Kit 160CFM

***ADD MORE HEAT TO YOUR ROOM***

This is a brand new unit in the box and is the best in the industry. 160 CFM capacity.The fan includes a rheostat to vary the fan speed and also includes a temperature sensor switch to enable the fan to turn on and off with the heat produced by the fireplace.

This fan is fairly universal for most Heat & Glo products. If you are unsure if it will work, email the model # of the fireplace to us and we can let you know for sure.

You must have electrical power to the junction box that is normally located under the fireplace in the gas control area on the right hand side. The junction box will have 2 outlets on it; one will say "FAN", and the other will say "REM". The fastest way to test for power is to plug something into the outlet marked "REM". (Radio, hair dryer, lamp) If you have 2 switches on your wall and wonder what in the world the second switch is for, it may be for the electrical supply for the junction box."


http://cgi.ebay.com/Heat-Glo-GFK-16...ryZ20564QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

 

[Roospike]

installed ........

 

[Hogwildz]

The blower & how its controlled was one of the basis for my purchase of the Summit insert.
Variable speed control, as fast or slow as you want. Temperature controlled auto, or manual. On high all blowers are louder than lower settings. Mine runs 24/7 along with the ceiling fan. I have the ceiling fan blowing down due to 3 story cathedral celing and unless the stoves below 400° is warm air blowing down. Even running on high is does not interfere with my tv viewing, and blower is closer to me than tv. Makes a good white noise while sleeping also.
Variable speed control.
Auto or manual on/off.
Temperature controlled on auto.
Included in price of insert.
These were some major reasons I bought the Summit, along with others.

 

[wg_bent]

Stoves work pretty well with a blower, but inserts I believe need a better way to get the heat out. If you'll notice on Spikes Sumit the blower is on the back, but for an insert the air must travel in the bottom and out the top. A longer path for the air to move and more resistance. The blower gets it moving. There is also no doubt that given a good hot fire, the blower on high will push more heat into the room, and into the rest of the house, but is noisier. We usually run the blower on about med when watching TV, and on high most other times. Also if the fire is not as hot, I'll run the blower lower to keep internal temps up.

I'd also have to agree with Spike on the 1/3 efficiency number, I might even go a bit higher, but it is a number that is subjective.

So to answer directly... Can an insert work without a blower, YES, just not as well.

My sister has a Lopi Answer and ran it for 10+ years with out the blower. When she saw my Osburn running with a blower, she promptly went out and bought a blower. She claimed the difference was amazing.

 

[MrGriz]

I believe that a blower is a necessity with an insert; if you intend to heat anything more than the immediate area around the insert, in a reasonable amount of time.

After some experimenting, I run my blower just about 24/7, along with the insert. My insert is located in my office, which is in the lower level of our tri-level. With the blower off, the insert will do a decent job of heating the lower level, which is basically one big room, but not much heat will transfer to the main level of the house. When I turn the blower on, I get much better air movement and much better heat transfer to the main level.

Of course, if I kept stuffing the firebox and heated my office to 80*, even without the blower more heat would transfer to the main level. With the blower, I use less wood and am able to keep more even temps between the two levels. They usually run 3 - 4* in temperature difference.

The blower is also a good way to help control the temperature of the insert itself. I have had it close to overfiring a few times and running the blower on high drew some heat off and kept things from getting out of control.

Just my .02