Can I get the catalytic in an Encore to work with just a small fire?

[jetsam]

If you're selling a $20 thermometer, you don't want to get sued for $20 million because 700° was too hot for a poorly designed and installed- and possibly homemade- stove that you've never heard of before. I'm surprised their "OVERFIRE" graphic doesn't start at 100°.

 

[Woodwringer]

I got a Watchman first, but a much better choice is an Auber AT100 from Auber Instruments. The Watchman reads only in 50 degree increments and the display is not continuous. The Auber is much lower cost. I am using the Condor probe that came with the Watchman, but you can get suitable K thermocouple probes from Auber, Amazon, or on Ebay. You might want to check out the VC owners 2017-2018 thread on this site. It is chock full of tips on how to run your Encore.

 

[Woodwringer]

If you really want a Watchman, I have a 120 volt version that I'll sell cheap.

 

[Woody Stover]

I dont like the idea of bending down over the back of the stove to read temps.

My stove is about even with the fireplace opening and I can't get my head back there to see the dial so I have a paper clip mounted to the nut on the dial, marking 1000 degrees, which I can see, looking down from the top. Can see it with a mirror but I don't usually mess with that.

 

[Woody Stover]

I've seen the needle on that Rutland come loose. Go with a Condar..I've got a few Infernos.

 

[Ashful]

Follow the manual's temperature recommendations.

View attachment 222160

Digital catalytic probe
http://www.condar.com/watchman.html

That's from the manual for the newer Encore dual burn system, I think. I read both this manual, and the older one that goes with SonOfEru's vintage stove. He is correct, the old manual did not call out any overfire temp, other than "glowing".

That said, the numbers in the new manual might serve as a decent guide. It all comes down to where you measure. If removed the convection top from my cool BK's, and put a stovetop thermo on the steel firebox above the cat, I'm sure it would frequently read beyond 700F, so this is all somewhat arbitrary, if the manufacturer doesn't specifically call it out for you.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

I try not to exceed 600 degrees on my griddle top. My ideal cruise temp is 400-500. It has to be single digits outside for me to run at 600 GT. Otherwise my house is a giant dry sauna.

 

[begreen]

That's from the manual for the newer Encore dual burn system, I think. I read both this manual, and the older one that goes with SonOfEru's vintage stove. He is correct, the old manual did not call out any overfire temp, other than "glowing".

That said, the numbers in the new manual might serve as a decent guide. It all comes down to where you measure. If removed the convection top from my cool BK's, and put a stovetop thermo on the steel firebox above the cat, I'm sure it would frequently read beyond 700F, so this is all somewhat arbitrary, if the manufacturer doesn't specifically call it out for you.

No, it's from the original CFM manual for the 2140 Defiant Encore from 1990 forward, not the newer dual burn models.

 

[SonOfEru]

Follow the manual's temperature recommendations.l

You're right. I missed that one. I was just looking for the word "overfire"

 

[SonOfEru]

The hole for the cat probe is between the secondary air cover and the cat access cover.

BTW - how do you get the cover off the probe hole? Insert something like a very thin screwdriver under the edge and pry it?

 

[RandyBoBandy]

BTW - how do you get the cover off the probe hole? Insert something like a very thin screwdriver under the edge and pry it?

Yes. It should pop off very easily. You will have to take a drill bit and gently drill a hole in the refractory box by hand. I’m using the Auber AT100 with a condar probe so I used a 1/4” bit. If you end up getting the auber AT100 and using the Auber probe, double check the diameter of the probe before you put a hole in your refractory box.

 

[SonOfEru]

Hmmm - drill a hole. I expected if they provided a port in the iron it would include a hole in the refractory. Rats.

If I later decide to take it out, does the hole left behind compromise the working of the refractory? Or is it minimal? I would have to plug the hole in the iron though, right?

I ask because I remembered that along with the stove came a Condar "Flue Gas Thermometer" that looks exactly like the "Catalytic Thermometers" I see online except it says Flue Gas Thermometer on the face. It has markings up to 1700. It had been inserted into the exit pipe at its old location.

I would think the probe wouldnt know or care where in the exhaust stream it was placed and should do the job.

But I do realize it is only 4 inches and if I want to keep the heat shield and just drill a hole for it, that would set it out that much from the catalytic. Wouldn't I need to have a longer probe so it gets into the flame?

I have considered removing the shield. Behind it is the wall of the brick chimney. Nothing combustible anywhere near so the shield is sorta unnecessary.

I also figured I could rig up a mirror on the chimney wall so I could see the dial without poking my head down behind there. The cost of the digital probe suggested earlier kind of made me gulp.

Of course I could cut a hole in the shield large enough to get a view with a mirror, with the probe in against the stove. All kinds of ideas to bang around my brain.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

The AT 100 is $40.00. I don’t remember the price of the actual probe.

 

[SonOfEru]

I'm seeing the kit - AT 100 and probe - for $72.95 at Auber but that has a buzzer included.

Looks like the probe by itself is $18 [at Auber], so I presume I could buy them separately and avoid the need of a buzzer which my dearly beloved would NOT allow. The colonials never had buzzers on their stoves. Acutally they didnt have digital thermometers.

Of course they didnt have catalytics either but ours is hidden so it's OK.

You use a Condar probe. So the AT100 takes any compatible probe?

 

[DMoloney]

I see they offer two different connector options for the K type probe, a "mini" or "spade" type connector. Is one more suitable than the other for the AT-100?

 

[DMoloney]

After 18 years with an Encore I figure it's high time I learned to operate correctly...those combustors (and warped parts) get expensive...

 

[SonOfEru]

After 18 years with an Encore I figure it's high time I learned to operate correctly...those combustors (and warped parts) get expensive...

Actually that nudges me to another question. Why did my old Encore warp, anyway. I have wondered if my practice of burning small bright fires without a cat led to overfiring [which I knew nothing about before now, and I never looked at a thermometer] and the heat warped things over time. I did make bigger fires as needed when it was really cold out, so some of the fires were not really small one-stick-at-a-time burns. Sometimes as many as 3 at a time, with no cat. Damper closed but no cat in there. [See the first of the thread if you wonder what I'm talking about, burning with no cat]

I replaced the ash grate in the bottom of the firebox twice. It would start to heave after a number of years, but it still worked, so I would keep it until it actually began to crack in the middle of where it humped up. My fireback was also gently warped and slightly cracked, and the big deal was the frame around the damper. It got bowed out so there was no longer a good seal and eventually it moved enough that the damper handle didnt just fail to snap in, the damper began to actually fall back open, so there was no damping effect at all. I would have to keep an eye on it and close it up again but hard to do that in my sleep. I eventually cut a "crutch" stick to prop under the handle to keep it shut.

So do Encores just warp over time or are they good forever if you dont overfire them? Having replaced one now for warps I sure want to avoid that again.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

I'm seeing the kit - AT 100 and probe - for $72.95 at Auber but that has a buzzer included.

Looks like the probe by itself is $18 [at Auber], so I presume I could buy them separately and avoid the need of a buzzer which my dearly beloved would NOT allow. The colonials never had buzzers on their stoves. Acutally they didnt have digital thermometers.

Of course they didnt have catalytics either but ours is hidden so it's OK.

You use a Condar probe. So the AT100 takes any compatible probe?

I had a condar digital themo first and hated it. Way overpriced paper weight. The alarms on the AT100 can be turned off, however I suggest setting one for when the cat starts to really take off. Mine is at 900 degrees. I reused the probe from my condar instead of buying another one. The AT100 comes with a coupler you can attach to the cable on the condar probe. If you buy a probe from Auber make sure you get the K type rated for 2000 degrees. If you look at in terms of longevity....a one time purchase of a digital cat thermo is cheaper than running blind and replacing cats and stove parts because the stove is being overfired. A couple hundred degrees makes a difference and I don’t think there is anyone out there who can tell if the cat is at 1400 degrees or 1600 degrees just by looking through the glass.

 

[SonOfEru]

I had a condar digital themo first and hated it. Way overpriced paper weight. The alarms on the AT100 can be turned off, however I suggest setting one for when the cat starts to really take off. Mine is at 900 degrees. I reused the probe from my condar instead of buying another one. The AT100 comes with a coupler you can attach to the cable on the condar probe. If you buy a probe from Auber make sure you get the K type rated for 2000 degrees. If you look at in terms of longevity....a one time purchase of a digital cat thermo is cheaper than running blind and replacing cats and stove parts because the stove is being overfired. A couple hundred degrees makes a difference and I don’t think there is anyone out there who can tell if the cat is at 1400 degrees or 1600 degrees just by looking through the glass.

So 900 is an alarm point for you? Meaning you need to watch to see it doesnt go way too high? Or do you want yours to NOT go over 900? If the latter then why do I want one rated for 2000? Just in case it goes high and might ruin one at say 1200 or 1600?

 

[RandyBoBandy]

So 900 is an alarm point for you? Meaning you need to watch to see it doesnt go way too high? Or do you want yours to NOT go over 900? If the latter then why do I want one rated for 2000? Just in case it goes high and might ruin one at say 1200 or 1600?

900 is to remind me to start turning my primary air down before my cat takes off for orbit. I usually try and cruise my cat between 1200-1450. It does see 1500-1550. The 2000 rating is for peak temps not continuous temps. Hopefully the cat never sees 2000. But how would you ever know if you didn’t have a probe

 

[SonOfEru]

900 is to remind me to start turning my primary air down before my cat takes off for orbit. I usually try and cruise my cat between 1200-1450. It does see 1500-1550. The 2000 rating is for peak temps not continuous temps. Hopefully the cat never sees 2000. But how would you ever know if you didn’t have a probe

Yup, got it.

The highest I have seen so far on the griddle has been 750. And on the rear shoulder the highest has been 550 on the sloping shoulder just next to where the exhaust would enter the flue collar [my collar exits out back, not up]. I dont know what that translates to in cat temps, so I sure am interested in getting a cat probe. Just still not sure if I want a remote digital readout or go with a bimetal and dial. Weighing the differences.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Yup, got it.

The highest I have seen so far on the griddle has been 750. And on the rear shoulder the highest has been 550 on the sloping shoulder just next to where the exhaust would enter the flue collar [my collar exits out back, not up]. I dont know what that translates to in cat temps, so I sure am interested in getting a cat probe. Just still not sure if I want a remote digital readout or go with a bimetal and dial. Weighing the differences.

I didn’t like seeing the digital themo on my hearth at first either but I got use to it real quick and then m constantly looking over at it to check the temp. I would hate getting out of my recliner all the time to look behind my stove to monitor temps.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

I would also suggest maybe trying to keep the griddle temps (GT) below 750. That would make me nervous if my stove was running that hot.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

I see they offer two different connector options for the K type probe, a "mini" or "spade" type connector. Is one more suitable than the other for the AT-100?

No idea. I cut the end off my condar probe and used the couple that came with my AT100

 

[RandyBoBandy]

After 18 years with an Encore I figure it's high time I learned to operate correctly...those combustors (and warped parts) get expensive...

These encores are a 3 thermometer stove.
Flue thermo, cat thermo, and a griddle thermo.