Can an "Outside Air Kit" (OAK) simply NOT work after its installed?

[DTrain]

I think some days are just bad draft days at my house. A not very tight cape. One morning I stared cooking breakfast (bacon) before I started the stove. I cranked up the 600cfm kitchenAid exhaust fan and started cooking. I then went to open my stove and got a face full of ash! I don't do that an more. As long as my fire is already drafting the fan hasn't much effect on the stove since the house is "loose?".

Not to long ago we had swirling winds and the thing was just dogging. A cracked window helped a bit. Nothing waned to burn. Had he stove burning slow at half air even. Next day just fine. Have had windy days since and it wasn't a problem. Just had a perfect collection of conditions that day to mess it up it seems.

Last night I chalked it full at 9pm. There were a few embers left from a fire at noon. Thing took right off and I had the stove turned all the way down with a reading of just under 300 on stove top. So well in fact I checked the ash door handle just to be sure! 15 min later is running 550f. That was a great draft day!

Woodheat.org has a good article on pressure playing havoc with things.

 

[A M]

I think some days are just bad draft days at my house. A not very tight cape. One morning I stared cooking breakfast (bacon) before I started the stove. I cranked up the 600cfm kitchenAid exhaust fan and started cooking. I then went to open my stove and got a face full of ash! I don't do that an more. As long as my fire is already drafting the fan hasn't much effect on the stove since the house is "loose?".

Not to long ago we had swirling winds and the thing was just dogging. A cracked window helped a bit. Nothing waned to burn. Had he stove burning slow at half air even. Next day just fine. Have had windy days since and it wasn't a problem. Just had a perfect collection of conditions that day to mess it up it seems.

Last night I chalked it full at 9pm. There were a few embers left from a fire at noon. Thing took right off and I had the stove turned all the way down with a reading of just under 300 on stove top. So well in fact I checked the ash door handle just to be sure! 15 min later is running 550f. That was a great draft day!

Woodheat.org has a good article on pressure playing havoc with things.

Thanks for the interesting experiences you've encountered with draft, DTrain ... I personally love it when I see the red coals in the early morning, and depending on how many pieces of wood I had placed in the box the night before, to me, it's kind of exciting to see a new, unburned piece of wood placed directly on those red coals and within five minutes, it ignites and starts to burn. I'll then just leave the air open for another two or three minutes and then slowly close at 1/4" increments, the air control.

Now, unlike many stove burners here on this website that I've read about ... I do not get 550 or 600 or 650 degrees temps in my box. THE hottest I've ever seen on the temp guage was 500. It mainly cruises along between 325 and 400.

BUT, the easy answer is that it is because of the fact that I do not have good, solidly dry hardwood LIKE ash or oak.

Thanks for the reference to the www.woodheat.org article about pressure playing havoc with the draft on one's stove.

Wow, that's one mighty exhaust fan ... 600 cfm in your kitchen. I laughed about the bacon cooking incident.

 

[DTrain]

Thanks for the interesting experiences you've encountered with draft, DTrain ... I personally love it when I see the red coals in the early morning, and depending on how many pieces of wood I had placed in the box the night before, to me, it's kind of exciting to see a new, unburned piece of wood placed directly on those red coals and within five minutes, it ignites and starts to burn. I'll then just leave the air open for another two or three minutes and then slowly close at 1/4" increments, the air control.

Now, unlike many stove burners here on this website that I've read about ... I do not get 550 or 600 or 650 degrees temps in my box. THE hottest I've ever seen on the temp guage was 500. It mainly cruises along between 325 and 400.

BUT, the easy answer is that it is because of the fact that I do not have good, solidly dry hardwood LIKE ash or oak.

Thanks for the reference to the www.woodheat.org article about pressure playing havoc with the draft on one's stove.

Wow, that's one mighty exhaust fan ... 600 cfm in your kitchen. I laughed about the bacon cooking incident.

I didn't get those kind of temps until this year. Dry dry wood will get you there. The temps you are seeing is what I was getting in my first two years. Year one, i was pumped if I cracked 425.. Year two 500 would happen occasionally.. Year three I can hit 550 with little problem. Seen it tickling 600 once.

As for my kitchen fan. My range is on an interior wall and I have a 12 foot horizontal run to exit the house. Needed the juice to move that air. I absolutely love that the house doesn't smell of food.

Noticed you spelled gauge and not gage. Canadian?

 

[DougA]

Stove top temps also have a lot to do with stove make & design. My old VC had to be 550 or more before I felt like it was doing something to warm the room. The new Equinox is soapstone and gives off a ton of heat when the readings are 350 on the top. Big difference in size but the VC is older technology and also had problems with backpuffing. The Equinox is in the same room, same chimney height but amazing draft. When refilling, I just open the door a crack, pause a moment, then leave it fully open when filling - zero smoke escapes.

 

[A M]

I didn't get those kind of temps until this year. Dry dry wood will get you there. The temps you are seeing is what I was getting in my first two years. Year one, i was pumped if I cracked 425.. Year two 500 would happen occasionally.. Year three I can hit 550 with little problem. Seen it tickling 600 once.

As for my kitchen fan. My range is on an interior wall and I have a 12 foot horizontal run to exit the house. Needed the juice to move that air. I absolutely love that the house doesn't smell of food.

Noticed you spelled gauge and not gage. Canadian?

DTrain ... in the first two years of wood burning, did you have the same stove you have now and were you burning wood that was more than 20% wet? Interesting what you said. What did you do differently by your third year of wood burning?

Oh, I love Canada but I'm American. Actually, I spelt "guage" incorrectly and I should have spelt it properly as "gauge."

 

[A M]

Stove top temps also have a lot to do with stove make & design. My old VC had to be 550 or more before I felt like it was doing something to warm the room. The new Equinox is soapstone and gives off a ton of heat when the readings are 350 on the top. Big difference in size but the VC is older technology and also had problems with backpuffing. The Equinox is in the same room, same chimney height but amazing draft. When refilling, I just open the door a crack, pause a moment, then leave it fully open when filling - zero smoke escapes.

DougA ... I quite agree from what I read of other wood burners. I may never achieve a normal of 575 but someone with a different brand of stove will not be pushing his stove at THAT temp. It's almost - almost - like competing in a way as to who's caught the biggest fish - and in the end, who actually told the truth about how much it weighted? OK, I went overboard in my metaphor but perhaps I never will achieve between the 500 and 600 burn with my stove. Listen, as long as it is keeping the main part of my house warm, I'm A-OK with it.

The true test will be as weather dips on a regular basis as we get closer and closer to official winter-time, will this stove continue to perform and do its best with the coldest of temps outside? I looked for a long time at the "soapstone" wood stoves. I'm happy for you that the Equinox is working so well. That is quite a contrast between your soapstone and your former Vermont Castings. In the end, I guess I decided not to spend about three grand for a soapstone and spend one grand for the Myriad, instead. I also almost got a Summer's Heat. I'm just grateful to be warm inside when it is 32 outside and I am sure going to get lower temps as December progresses.

 

[DTrain]

DTrain ... in the first two years of wood burning, did you have the same stove you have now and were you burning wood that was more than 20% wet? Interesting what you said. What did you do differently by your third year of wood burning?

Oh, I love Canada but I'm American. Actually, I spelt "guage" incorrectly and I should have spelt it properly as "gauge."

Same stove. All about the wood being dry. In my third year now, I have two season dry wood. I've also made some adjustments to how I load the stove. Size of splits and air space in the box. Lots of good tips picked up reading the forums here.

 

[DougA]

That is quite a contrast between your soapstone and your former Vermont Castings

That's for sure!! I just listed the old VC and I see they are selling for the same price we paid for it 30 yrs ago. The Equinox is now over $6K in Canada with our crap dollar, delivery and taxes. OUCH. I bought it used for 1/3 of that. A steal of a deal but I spent nearly a year watching for on-line ads every day. The big units rarely come up.
To add to your thoughts on wood. It took me years to build up enough supply that it was all fully dried after 2 or 3 years, depending upon species. The, last year I went through everything plus half of the wood that was reserved for this season. So, I'm OK now but will be back to burning 20%+ in the new year. Next year, I will have plenty. Oh, does it ever end.

 

[A M]

Years down the road, I do hope to get a stove that is even more energy efficient. I prefer a non-catalytic but I guess I could be persuaded someday for a cat, such as what (broken link removed) sells. I do like that other soapstone company, though, as their stoves are not cats, I understand. I know that they take about .45 minutes to get going but I love the fact that they radiate their heat for HOURS after the last piece of wood has been burned!!


Here's a question for you or anyone reading this post: When I close the primary air on a non-cat stove, ... you would think it would die out ... but, it doesn't. The "fire" is coming from the gases in the wood and up into the secondary tubes. These tubes "burn" the flame or smoke BEFORE it all goes up into the chimney, right? But, my stove is at 350 right now and the flames are very, very high. It will come more to life, of course, if I even open the air up a quarter of an inch or so.

If this were a regular stove that was made in the 70s, per se, wouldn't the wood probably smolder and die out within a few minutes?

Also, am I actually wasting wood by having the air open too much while the wood is burning?

I'm experimenting more and more and I am just amazed that there's still plenty of (flame) life in the box when the air is closed off.

Do most wood burners close off the air when they load it up at night and go to sleep OR do most of them leave it open just a little bit, to keep it going through the night with just a tiny amount of oxygen to keep burning?

Finally, ... is this the primary way to make the wood last longer?

To give it just enough air to keep going and only have the air open all the way when you are first burning the wood?

 

[A M]

Same stove. All about the wood being dry. In my third year now, I have two season dry wood. I've also made some adjustments to how I load the stove. Size of splits and air space in the box. Lots of good tips picked up reading the forums here.

Wow. Same stove, just drier wood and some learned techniques made the difference. I've learned a lot from these forums, as well. You've got to be smart and a little bit careful that you obviously DON'T believe everything that is said by individuals who give their opinions, because some may be wrong in what they pass along. However, if 20 people are saying the same thing, you can pretty much be assured that what is being said is true.

But, its fun learning more little tidbits about stoves and wood, etc. Thanks for your information, DTrain.

 

[A M]

That's for sure!! I just listed the old VC and I see they are selling for the same price we paid for it 30 yrs ago. The Equinox is now over $6K in Canada with our crap dollar, delivery and taxes. OUCH. I bought it used for 1/3 of that. A steal of a deal but I spent nearly a year watching for on-line ads every day. The big units rarely come up.
To add to your thoughts on wood. It took me years to build up enough supply that it was all fully dried after 2 or 3 years, depending upon species. The, last year I went through everything plus half of the wood that was reserved for this season. So, I'm OK now but will be back to burning 20%+ in the new year. Next year, I will have plenty. Oh, does it ever end.

Are you serious, DougA? Your VC stove is worth (today) about the same as what you paid for it "30" years ago?

I regret not buying the smallest of the soapstone stoves about seven months ago on Craigslist. I can't remember the name of the stove but it is the one that heats up to 1,000 square feet, I believe. Anyway, the people barely used it and went and bought a much larger soapstone stove, so they were getting rid of the small one for either $350.00 or $400.00. Now, at that time, while I truly wanted a larger stove, ... I was discouraged because I lived a little over an hour away from where this stove was and after calling numerous delivery companies, the lowest priced one was about $300.00.

Now that time and experience have come around, I probably should have gotten it. THAT opportunity (for a "soapstone" stove), will not come around for a very long time, at least whenever I have looked at Craigslist ads. I had the chance and was the ONLY caller for this stove two days after it was posted. The owner knew I was having a problem getting someone to pick it up for me without paying several hundreds of dollars through a formal delivery company. The owner even called me two days later to tell me that someone new had called her and her husband with interest in the stove and I never heard anything else, so I presume he did buy it.

It was a bitter/sweet feeling I had at the time. Part of me thought it was ridiculous to buy a stove that could only heat MOST of my house and the other part of me thought that I should still go for it, because "new," I would have paid 4 times what this couple was selling it for - and as I said above; they hadn't even used it that much in the course of a year.

BTW, ... the guy "Illinois Burner" wrote in and updated his post today. He had written in late November, had trouble with his BK Princess stove. It was burning a lot but producing very little heat. His story has a good, solid and happy end: the dealer took back his stove and he ended up getting a Pacific Energy Summit. States that he is very, very happy with how it burns and how it heats. I, along with other readers, am so thrilled that his house is finally nice and toasty; especially prior to Christmas.

Here's to safe and productive heat, everyone!!

 

[begreen]

A 1980 Resolute VC stove in good working condition can be worth what it sold for 34+ yrs ago. But a 10 yr old Resolute Acclaim VC stove may lose 75% of its value due to the changes they have made in design.

 

[DougA]

Are you serious, DougA? Your VC stove is worth (today) about the same as what you paid for it "30" years ago?

Yes, I just checked the inflation calculations. $1000 in 1982 is now equal to $2,450 now. So, in fact, I lost a lot of money but if I can get what I paid for it (without counting inflation), it still tells me that back then, they were a great stove.
I remember a grade school teacher talking about how he sold a car for more than he had paid for it. I was shocked back then. Well, I've done the same thing a few times. Seems weird. Just like paying 20% for our first mortgage! Way off topic but how is it that when we were paying 20% on a mortgage, we were making a LOT of money and paying off the mortgage fast. Now that mortgages are near 0, people have a hard time making the monthly payment. Sorry - just had to.

 

[A M]

Yes, I just checked the inflation calculations. $1000 in 1982 is now equal to $2,450 now. So, in fact, I lost a lot of money but if I can get what I paid for it (without counting inflation), it still tells me that back then, they were a great stove.
I remember a grade school teacher talking about how he sold a car for more than he had paid for it. I was shocked back then. Well, I've done the same thing a few times. Seems weird. Just like paying 20% for our first mortgage! Way off topic but how is it that when we were paying 20% on a mortgage, we were making a LOT of money and paying off the mortgage fast. Now that mortgages are near 0, people have a hard time making the monthly payment. Sorry - just had to.

Quite amazing, ... DougA and Begreen regarding the VC stove and its relative value from 30 years ago or so! Doug, I hope you do sell it soon for a very acceptable price.

 

[Sprinter]

Here's a question for you or anyone reading this post: When I close the primary air on a non-cat stove, ... you would think it would die out ... but, it doesn't. The "fire" is coming from the gases in the wood and up into the secondary tubes. These tubes "burn" the flame or smoke BEFORE it all goes up into the chimney, right? But, my stove is at 350 right now and the flames are very, very high. It will come more to life, of course, if I even open the air up a quarter of an inch or so.

All EPA certified stoves are designed so that the air is not completely shut off with the air control turned fully down. So you still have enough air coming in to support combustion including to the secondaries. Yes, the secondaries are burning the gasses and smoke before it goes up the flue. It needs to be over 1100F to do that, though, so the secondaries should be allowed to get to that temp before you turn the air down.

Also, am I actually wasting wood by having the air open too much while the wood is burning?

The best efficiency comes when you can turn the air down to the point where the secondaries are doing most of the burning and the least air is escaping up the flue. Just watch to make sure the secondaries don't quit, which can happen if you turn the air down too early. You have to experiment some to determine your best overnight technique because it's going to depend on the wood quality, stove design, etc.

Watch the fire and look outside at the chimney for smoke to determine the best time to turn the air down, then do it in a few steps. Personally, I get the best results with the air nearly fully down when it's hot enough to do so.

 

[A M]

All EPA certified stoves are designed so that the air is not completely shut off with the air control turned fully down. So you still have enough air coming in to support combustion including to the secondaries. Yes, the secondaries are burning the gasses and smoke before it goes up the flue. It needs to be over 1100F to do that, though, so the secondaries should be allowed to get to that temp before you turn the air down.
The best efficiency comes when you can turn the air down to the point where the secondaries are doing most of the burning and the least air is escaping up the flue. Just watch to make sure the secondaries don't quit, which can happen if you turn the air down too early. You have to experiment some to determine your best overnight technique because it's going to depend on the wood quality, stove design, etc.

Watch the fire and look outside at the chimney for smoke to determine the best time to turn the air down, then do it in a few steps. Personally, I get the best results with the air nearly fully down when it's hot enough to do so.

Sprinter ... thank you. Loved your solid advice and what you stated makes complete sense. Yes, I am still experimenting with the primary air control. When and if I start a fire from the stark "cold," I will open the bypass damper and the air control all the way. If a fire gets going in 10 to 15 minutes, then I close up the bypass but will still leave the air on for a few more minutes and then begin to close it gradually, certainly not closed all the way. That would be way too soon. I want to add that although my wood is not perfectly dry, ... when the coals are nice and red ... I go out to check my chimney cap (from the ground, of course), and there is just a little bit of smoke and you can see the heat emissions or the vapor emissions, I think you call them, coming out of the pipe.

In other words, I have found almost no smoke coming out of the chimney and I know already that this is a good sign that this stove is doing a pretty good job of burning up what it's got to deal with in the firebox. Not all the time, not every day, but many times I have discovered this and I'm glad.

Honestly, right now, it is NOT freezing cold outside. It's low 40s; however, I'm keeping the stove going at about 350 and I'm not letting it go cold overnight, if I can help it. The inside house temps seem to do better if it has consistent, on-going heat, rather than not staying on top of the stove fire and allowing it to burn out by morning and starting all over again with emptying the ash box and building a new fire, ... and the temps slowly dropping inside the house 'til I've got a big fire going again and the temps rise in the Living Room and the surrounding rooms.

Frankly, I think that I've been leaving the air control open for too long when I could have been slowly pushing it in and thereby relying on the secondaries to perform, but, as I said above, I am still experimenting, reading, listening, practicing and continue to try and see what works best for this stove, in this house, for my winter needs.