Breckwell P24i - Burn Pot - Pellets burning too fast

[mroletta]

Bchapaz, the amount of pellets that fall into mine is also very inconsistent. Sometimes the auger turns and I get 0 pellets fall in, and the next time a good bundle come out. Sometimes it's just 2-3, and other times it's 7-10.

I just started mine up right now, and I'll snap some photos of the amount of pellets in the pot after a few minutes. I want to let it burn for a while to get rid of the excess pellets that were used manually feeding to get it going.

If it's useful to you, I can take video of the firepot (100-120s worth) and upload it to youtube so you can see the auger/pellet amount that drops?

 

[bchapaz]

That would be great (Pics and video). Different thoughts running through my mind:

1. Upper auger bushing? - Just heard a slight squeek. - purchase new one or can I just "lube" the existing one
2. Pellet shoot - something preventing pellets from dropping.

I've had the thing on MAX for an hour and the heat being put out is only about 90 degrees.. That is definately not normal!

 

[DexterDay]

The damper having no effect still has me scratching my head? There should be a dramatic change from full open to full close. I agree it could be something at the top pf the flight.. My buddy had a corner of a bag get caught up there. His stove would run, but the same on every setting.

Hope you get it figured. As most stoves dont have a too much air problem. Most are not enough air (if there is a problem)...

 

[bchapaz]

I think the too much air issue is solved with the new gasket. The damper has an effect on the burn rate. Just can't get enough pellets in there now to keep a realtively consistent burn or get the thing hot (over 85-90 degree air from the tubes).

 

[mroletta]

I recorded and am uploading the video now. First time uploading to youtube and I'm not sure how long their post processing takes.

Bchapaz, you said it was recently installed and that you bought it new, correct? Did you clear out any ash that you might have behind the 4 panels in the firewall/behind the burn pot?

What got me when I first cleaned it (first time having a pellet stove), was that I was cleaning out the areas behind the tall vertical doors on the left and right with a long screwdriver and thought I had got it all, but I ordered a 24" flexible rod with a brush head at the end, and had an epiphany when I saw the top of the brush break through a thick layer of ash that had accumulated at the top of that channel. I.E. the brush head popped out to about the same level as where the heat exchange tubes are. That needs to be clear as it's the path the air takes.

I know (and agree) that you think it's pellets not feeding sufficiently, but it was something that definitely bit me so thought I'd pass it along. Again, I was/am a pellet stove noob so I feel it was a defining moment, ha ha.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Check your ash pan door gasket if there is one.

 

[mroletta]

Video successfully uploaded - hope it helps! I swear it doesn't sound like an aircraft in real life.

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[bchapaz]

I purchased the stove used. There really isn't a lot of wear and tear on the thing. I will try the flexible brush idea. I cleaned behind the doors (only 3 on my insert) but didn't scub anything behind there. There really wasn't anything to vacuum.

I just dislike pulling the insert out of the fireplace and disconnecting the pipe, etc. and having someone help me remove it from the raised hearth as I can't work on it when it's up there. AHHHHHH.

Thanks everyone!

 

[mroletta]

I only mention the flexible brush because I could physically see it popping out of the top by the heat exchanger tubes. My problem was that path was being inhibited, which is the path that the air takes through the burn pot, up to the tube area, then down the sides behind those long vertical doors and to the combustion blower/vent.

How does my feed rate compare to yours?

 

[bchapaz]

Video successfully uploaded - hope it helps! I swear it doesn't sound like an aircraft in real life.

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I'm not even close to that!! When you showed the burn pot, I don't even have that many "coals" in there. I think this is starting to look like a feed problem. No enought are dropping over a period of time.. (more 1 or 2's that 7 or 10's).

I can't thank you enough for taking this and putting it up there. I think this goes a long way to help in getting this figured out!

 

[DexterDay]

I think the too much air issue is solved with the new gasket. The damper has an effect on the burn rate. Just can't get enough pellets in there now to keep a realtively consistent burn or get the thing hot (over 85-90 degree air from the tubes).

You read it wrong... if your gaskets were leaking, that would HELP you now.. By changing them, you INCREASE the amount of air through the burn pot. Which worsens your problem. You need LESS air or MORE fuel. . . Changing the gaskets will only amplify the problem you have.

I hope you get it resolved, but an air leak is what you DONT have.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I think the too much air issue is solved with the new gasket. The damper has an effect on the burn rate. Just can't get enough pellets in there now to keep a realtively consistent burn or get the thing hot (over 85-90 degree air from the tubes).

You read it wrong... if your gaskets were leaking, that would HELP you now.. By changing them, you INCREASE the amount of air through the burn pot. Which worsens your problem. You need LESS air or MORE fuel. . . Changing the gaskets will only amplify the problem you have.

I hope you get it resolved, but an air leak is what you DONT have.

It is likely he has several issues.

 

[bchapaz]

I think the too much air issue is solved with the new gasket. The damper has an effect on the burn rate. Just can't get enough pellets in there now to keep a realtively consistent burn or get the thing hot (over 85-90 degree air from the tubes).

You read it wrong... if your gaskets were leaking, that would HELP you now.. By changing them, you INCREASE the amount of air through the burn pot. Which worsens your problem. You need LESS air or MORE fuel. . . Changing the gaskets will only amplify the problem you have.

I hope you get it resolved, but an air leak is what you DONT have.

It is likely he has several issues.

You can say that again I think that there is a combination of issues. Rip apart time again!! Really learning alot about this thing. Good thing I enjoy fixing things!

Thanks all! Any ideas, post them here. I'll update on progress.

 

[DexterDay]

I think the too much air issue is solved with the new gasket. The damper has an effect on the burn rate. Just can't get enough pellets in there now to keep a realtively consistent burn or get the thing hot (over 85-90 degree air from the tubes).

You read it wrong... if your gaskets were leaking, that would HELP you now.. By changing them, you INCREASE the amount of air through the burn pot. Which worsens your problem. You need LESS air or MORE fuel. . . Changing the gaskets will only amplify the problem you have.

I hope you get it resolved, but an air leak is what you DONT have.

It is likely he has several issues.

You can say that again I think that there is a combination of issues. Rip apart time again!! Really learning alot about this thing. Good thing I enjoy fixing things!

Thanks all! Any ideas, post them here. I'll update on progress.

Please dont take me wrong. I would love to help you. But in order to help you, You must understand how your stove works. The Combustion blower, blows your exhaust out of the house ( keep your vent clean), but it also provides the air for combustion for the pellets. It "Pulls" air through your burnpot, creating a negative pressure in your firebox. So if you had a door/gasket leak, the would prevent the air from coming through the burn pot holes and create the opposite problem you have.
You would have a "PILE UP" of pellets because of lack of air.

You have too much air. Fixing leaks would give you more air, burning your pellets faster.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ah yes Dexter, but it also allows the damper to have proper effect on the fire which wasn't available before.

The fuel feed is likely mechanical in nature and a bit of visual inspection should find it once the covers are all off.

 

[bchapaz]

DexterDay.. I'm not taking it wrong and realizing that everyone here is trying to help! The airflow issue might be a non-issue. The reason I say that is due to the video. I do not have that amout of pellets or "coals" in my burn pot. I litteraly will have about a quarter size amount of buring pellets (diameter) in that huge burn pot, which I don't think would be enought to sustain any kind of burn.

Hope I didn't give the wrong impression!! Please keep the ideas coming! Thanks for checking back and any advice will be appreciated!

 

[DexterDay]

Ah yes Dexter, but it also allows the damper to have proper effect on the fire which wasn't available before.

The fuel feed is likely mechanical in nature and a bit of visual inspection should find it once the covers are all off.

You are right Smokey. I didnt think of the air leak letting more air in, if the damper was shut. Shame on me for not thinking.

My apologies to the OP. Why did you change the burn pot? Old one wore out?

 

[bchapaz]

That was the burn pot that came with the insert. I noticed it was larger than the ones available online.

I took the insert out, took the auger motor off and checked for anything weird with the pellet "shoot". I didn't see anything but when I put everything back together the auger motor would spin right away. The motor was on but the shaft didn't turn (on the motor, not the auger shaft). It did eventually start but the motor got very hot to the touch.

Thinking a new auger motor is in order. Are they supposed to get that hot?

 

[jtakeman]

I think it might have the wrong auger motor. You stated it has the 4 rpm control, But did you check to see it if has the 4 rpm auger motor? A 4 rpm control with a 1 rpm auger motor would give too few pellets to the fire.

 

[bchapaz]

I think it might have the wrong auger motor. You stated it has the 4 rpm control, But did you check to see it if has the 4 rpm auger motor? A 4 rpm control with a 1 rpm auger motor would give too few pellets to the fire.

She's a 4 RPM. The label is still on the motor. This might be the original motor, which is/was on it's last legs.

Thanks!

 

[jtakeman]

I think it might have the wrong auger motor. You stated it has the 4 rpm control, But did you check to see it if has the 4 rpm auger motor? A 4 rpm control with a 1 rpm auger motor would give too few pellets to the fire.

She's a 4 RPM. The label is still on the motor. This might be the original motor, which is/was on it's last legs.

Thanks!

Sorry, I didn't read your last post. No the motor shouldn't get that hot. Sounds like its binding internally and overlaoding the motor. While you got it out rig it to a lamp cord. I'll bet it doesn't spin 4 rev's per minute either. Once they start to bind they stahl which I mentioned above.

If the new motor fixes the issue? Please post the results for future readers reference!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I think it might have the wrong auger motor. You stated it has the 4 rpm control, But did you check to see it if has the 4 rpm auger motor? A 4 rpm control with a 1 rpm auger motor would give too few pellets to the fire.

She's a 4 RPM. The label is still on the motor. This might be the original motor, which is/was on it's last legs.

Thanks!

Sorry, I didn't read your last post. No the motor shouldn't get that hot. Sounds like its binding internally and overlaoding the motor. While you got it out rig it to a lamp cord. I'll bet it doesn't spin 4 rev's per minute either. Once they start to bind they stahl which I mentioned above.

If the new motor fixes the issue? Please post the results for future readers reference!

That is likely the mechanical issue, you may still have other issues.

Funny how everything has issues, instead of problems, these days isn't it?

 

[jtakeman]

I think it might have the wrong auger motor. You stated it has the 4 rpm control, But did you check to see it if has the 4 rpm auger motor? A 4 rpm control with a 1 rpm auger motor would give too few pellets to the fire.

She's a 4 RPM. The label is still on the motor. This might be the original motor, which is/was on it's last legs.

Thanks!

Sorry, I didn't read your last post. No the motor shouldn't get that hot. Sounds like its binding internally and overlaoding the motor. While you got it out rig it to a lamp cord. I'll bet it doesn't spin 4 rev's per minute either. Once they start to bind they stahl which I mentioned above.

If the new motor fixes the issue? Please post the results for future readers reference!

That is likely the mechanical issue, you may still have other issues.

Funny how everything has issues, instead of problems, these days isn't it?

I use the word "issue" for easy fixes and "problem" for the ones that seem impossible. But doesn't "issue" sound better than "problem"????

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I think it might have the wrong auger motor. You stated it has the 4 rpm control, But did you check to see it if has the 4 rpm auger motor? A 4 rpm control with a 1 rpm auger motor would give too few pellets to the fire.

She's a 4 RPM. The label is still on the motor. This might be the original motor, which is/was on it's last legs.

Thanks!

Sorry, I didn't read your last post. No the motor shouldn't get that hot. Sounds like its binding internally and overlaoding the motor. While you got it out rig it to a lamp cord. I'll bet it doesn't spin 4 rev's per minute either. Once they start to bind they stahl which I mentioned above.

If the new motor fixes the issue? Please post the results for future readers reference!

That is likely the mechanical issue, you may still have other issues.

Funny how everything has issues, instead of problems, these days isn't it?

I use the word "issue" for easy fixes and "problem" for the ones that seem impossible. But doesn't "issue" sound better than "problem"????

Actually no, but that's a matter for a different forum and day.

 

[bchapaz]

OK All! Thanks to everyone that responded with suggestions and help! Here is what was done and final outcome:

First, I ended up replacing the auger motor. Even though the feed rate was exactly what Breckwell stated (with the analog board), the motor was running very hot. Couldn't touch the motor after manual feeding for about 2 minutes (testing) and it was jamming a lot during testing (with the insert out of the fireplace).

After replacing the motor, pellets were still not dropping consistently into the burn pot. I think took apart the auger assembly and noticed that the top "blade" of the auger was bent slightly downward at the end. There were no jams or anything at the top so I figured that maybe the pellets were not getting "high enough" to actually drop into the burn pot. I bent the top portion back to where it looked straight (not an easy task for a tall skinny guy!!) and reassembled the insert for testing. During testing, a good amount of pellets were dropping, motor was acting great (no heat) so I got the insert back in the fireplace, hooked up the venting and burned.

Worked like a champ It wasn't that cold in WNY last night, but cold enough where I left it running for about 3 hours with no issues. Flame was great. I was the "C" setting with the damper open around 3/4". Great heat for being just above a low setting.

Once again, thanks to everyone that assisted, took videos (that really helped!!) and gave suggestions. Searching through the forums also helped prior to actually posting