Bought a Harman Today

[mik_kane]

Home built rail system if you are interested

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/todays-project-harman-accentra-insert-rail-kit.105997/

 

[Ctcarl]

Congrats. First season with my p35i and it's treating me and the family right

 

[BGStG1aholic]

You have to provide the surge protector ... many here use a Tripp Lite. Keep us posted...

Tripp Lite?

Time for me to update - I'm using surge protectors I bought in the 80's. I think I'm a bit overdue and now since I just got my XXV - NEW surge protectors are on the top of my list

Where's the best place to buy these "Tripp Lites"?

 

[alternativeheat]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and wanted to introduce myself. I live in Eastern Pennsylvania and just bought my first pellet stove. I've lived in a 2500 sq ft. colonial that was built 5 years ago. Since then, I've watched the price of propane go up and up. I stumbled upon this website as I researched the price of propane, trying to talk myself out of coughing up $5000.00 for a heating source that I knew little about.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W_EPLLPA_PRS_SPA_DPG&f=W

It doesn't take a genius to see this trend aint turning around. It's what really forced me to act. I've read close to 100 threads on this site and others to help me understand how pellet stoves work and the benefits of ownership. If you're reading this, you have probably helped me get to this point in some small or large way.

Anyway, I priced out several models. I was very compelled by the Regency GCI60, but too many issues seemed to come up in my research. I love the contemporary look of the stove, but the way it feeds and the control board turned me off. I hate push pads. They scream "Future problem" to me. I ended up going with a Harman 52i insert.

I am in the process of ripping out an old and little used propane fireplace (for sale if you want it). Install of the new stove will be on Friday (2-21-14). I can't wait for the day that I don't have to freeze my ass off and listen to my wife complain about the thermostat setting.

Cost always seems to be of interest on these threads, so here it is: $5321.00 installed. I went with an OAK. The dealer actually recommended it (which I've come to learn doesn't always happen because they make little $$$ for the hassle). Dealer also included a ton of free pellets after I bought my first ton (which are included in the price I mentioned above { $259.00}). If you deduct those pellets, the price is more like $5060.00, which I think is fair. I'd be interested to know if any of you think I got fleeced.

Overall, I think I did pretty well. I met a dealer (from Alburtis, PA for those you looking) who I like and learned a lot from. Comparable prices on this unit and other makes of similar performance were close or higher. Everyone seemed to get in this factoid ( prices will go up 3% in April, as they do every year.) Not sure if that's true or not, but it was time to act anyway. The unit itself ended up costing me 3650.00 after a 250.00 rebate. 600 for the install. I have a feeling that I'll be getting a few bucks back, as he included some piping that will probably not be used in the install.

One question I do have relates to the size of piping. One dealer priced out 4" pipe. The other 3". Why the difference.

Thanks to all of you who take the time to help out newb's like me. I'm sure I'll be asking you some questions sometime very soon.

Dave

Dave,
Be sure to let us all know how the investment worked out. Today is FRIDAY, install day!!
another Dave

 

[Tonyray]

On the Gen through the cloths dryer line you would be backfeeding. Back feeding is illegal and linemen have been killed from this, not mention you can overload the circuitry or the Gen this way. Much better to put in a very fool proof transfer switch. Now everyone shutters over the transfer switch install. Go to Reliance Controls web site and they have very very good videos on how to wire these in. Once done your house is safe, the Lineman is safe and your Gen will perform as rated . Best of all it passes an insurance inspection.

I have a Generac 7500 W with a Reliance 10 Interchangeable breaker transfer switch that runs pretty much all the hard wired stuff like full rooms, oil furnace etc..
I understand it's not a good idea to run a pellet stove with the dirty [not clean ] Electric power due to sensitive circuitry. is this true?
If it is then I would just run my oil furnace along with everything else during a power outtage...

 

[alternativeheat]

I have a Generac 7500 W with a Reliance 10 Interchangeable breaker transfer switch that runs pretty much all the hard wired stuff like full rooms, oil furnace etc..
I understand it's not a good idea to run a pellet stove with the dirty [not clean ] Electric power due to sensitive circuitry. is this true?
If it is then I would just run my oil furnace along with everything else during a power outtage...

It seems to be the consensus that a Harman won't like a non pure sine wave running it. Like you really it doesn't matter so much to me because I can the main system in an outage, already been done etc. However one day I'm going to post a question asking if anyone has actually fried a Harman with a portable Gen. And then there is my backup experiment with a pure sine inverter I mentioned a while back.

 

[Tonyray]

It seems to be the consensus that a Harman won't like a non pure sine wave running it. Like you really it doesn't matter so much to me because I can the main system in an outage, already been done etc. However one day I'm going to post a question asking if anyone has actually fried a Harman with a portable Gen. And then there is my backup experiment with a pure sine inverter I mentioned d a whole back.

Good Idea..
Now I wonder who we can get to run the Harman with a big ole Genny...
someone has to take the plunge....

 

[alternativeheat]

Good Idea..
Now I wonder who we can get to run the Harman with a big ole Genny...
someone has to take the plunge....

I want to just plug the p61 into the generator so bad to see. Then the $300 board comes to mind

I have not gotten back to my experimenter meanwhile. I even had the house on the generator last sat but it was a storm situation, didn't even think of trying the charger while the gen was powered up. I'll get to it. That was a lousy storm, the snow blower started surging under no load too, fine under load but no load was all over the place. So tomorrow is clean the stove day and clean the carb day. Generator ran flawlessly even if it was just a half hour or so. Right before bed time of course ! The power came back on and off to bed, the lights never flickered again that I know of and by 2 am the storm was moving on. From then on I slept like a rock.

 

[tjnamtiw]

It seems to be the consensus that a Harman won't like a non pure sine wave running it. Like you really it doesn't matter so much to me because I can the main system in an outage, already been done etc. However one day I'm going to post a question asking if anyone has actually fried a Harman with a portable Gen. And then there is my backup experiment with a pure sine inverter I mentioned a while back.

As I posted in another thread, the Harman sold battery backup system by the admission of the company that makes it is Not a pure sine wave device. That is a fact right from the company, SEC! They DO sell a pure sine wave version but it's not the one Harman advertises on their website. Sorry to spoil the fun.

''
Dear Mr. Witman,

It is not. Our SF 707 is pure sine wave.

Ernest Herz, Sales
SEC America, LLC
78 Ethan Allen Drive,
S. Burlington, VT 05403
Tel: 802-865-8388
Fax: 802-865-8389''

 

[alternativeheat]

As I posted in another thread, the Harman sold battery backup system by the admission of the company that makes it is Not a pure sine wave device. That is a fact right from the company, SEC! They DO sell a pure sine wave version but it's not the one Harman advertises on their website. Sorry to spoil the fun.

''
Dear Mr. Witman,

It is not. Our SF 707 is pure sine wave.

Ernest Herz, Sales
SEC America, LLC
78 Ethan Allen Drive,
S. Burlington, VT 05403
Tel: 802-865-8388
Fax: 802-865-8389''

Here is the thing, I've run lots of things in the house on the generator at one point or another except a computer, printer and the Harman. The stupid generator has an electronic voltage regulator, wouldn't one think if it was going to fry electronics it fry it's own regulator ? The microwave has a digital screen, the fridges too, the hot water heater a digital control. Non have been affected. The only thing that has happened is the coffee maker runs slightly longer but who knows what was pulling amps at the same time. My tenant could have fired up his microwave. Microwaves give the gen a bit of a grunt when they come in, that's it. But hey, $300 mistake if it doesn't work out.

I must have missed your post on the Harman backup. Or was that the one that said something about the Harman fans running slow on the backup pack ? Edit: never mind I just read that post, it was below this one !

 

[alternativeheat]

Tripp Lite?

Time for me to update - I'm using surge protectors I bought in the 80's. I think I'm a bit overdue and now since I just got my XXV - NEW surge protectors are on the top of my list

Where's the best place to buy these "Tripp Lites"?

I have Tripp lites around, my Harman is running on a GE surge protector just because that's what my wife pulled out of the bag of stuff we had the day we hooked it up ( household stuff, not stuff bought for the stove). We just went through a big power dip, two short outages before a final failure of power last weekend during a storm. The stove survived it.

 

[Luv2burnPellets]

Here is the thing, I've run lots of things in the house on the generator at one point or another except a computer, printer and the Harman. The stupid generator has an electronic voltage regulator, wouldn't one think if it was going to fry electronics it fry it's own regulator ? The microwave has a digital screen, the fridges too, the hot water heater a digital control. Non have been affected. The only thing that has happened is the coffee maker runs slightly longer but who knows what was pulling amps at the same time. My tenant could have fired up his microwave. Microwaves give the gen a bit of a grunt when they come in, that's it. But hey, $300 mistake if it doesn't work out.

I must have missed your post on the Harman backup. Or was that the one that said something about the Harman fans running slow on the backup pack ? Edit: never mind I just read that post, it was below this one !

Tripp Lite?

Time for me to update - I'm using surge protectors I bought in the 80's. I think I'm a bit overdue and now since I just got my XXV - NEW surge protectors are on the top of my list

Where's the best place to buy these "Tripp Lites"?

 

[Luv2burnPellets]

Harman recommends either a Tripp Internet 750 or the APC BE750G. I just purchased the APC BE 750 from Amazon for $80.99 with free shipping. This unit also has a built in surge supressor. I have it installed, but we have not had a power failure yet. Maybe I should test it by pulling the plug.

 

[alternativeheat]

Harman recommends either a Tripp Internet 750 or the APC BE750G. I just purchased the APC BE 750 from Amazon for $80.99 with free shipping. This unit also has a built in surge supressor. I have it installed, but we have not had a power failure yet. Maybe I should test it by pulling the plug.

Maybe I'll switch out my GE some day. I have the Tripp 750, I think they are about $10 at Amazon though.

 

[tjnamtiw]

We just went through a big power dip, two short outages before a final failure of power last weekend during a storm. The stove survived it.

If you had the power dips, which REALLY can kill electronics, you need one of these. I have one on each entertainment center and stove. > http://www.amazon.com/APC-LE1200-Au...=1393020739&sr=8-1&keywords=voltage+regulator

 

[alternativeheat]

If you had the power dips, which REALLY can kill electronics, you need one of these. I have one on each entertainment center and stove. > http://www.amazon.com/APC-LE1200-Automatic-Voltage-Regulator/dp/B00009RA60/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393020739&sr=8-1&keywords=voltage regulator

We had two big dips before the power went out but they didn't last longer than maybe 10 seconds each. Enough to brown out the lights each time. Then wham a huge blue flash outside someplace and the power went off for maybe 5 minutes. It then came back on, then our utility light out at the street re-lit. About 15 minutes later Wham, another big blue light flashed and out it went. Couldn't tell where the flash was from, as it lit everything up out in the snow storm. I said frig this and started the generator and got the house transferred onto that. My wife is on a call list with the power company and called it in, they said they already knew about it, this maybe 15 minutes later. A high power line was down and crew working on it they said. A fire truck went by and out of site. THis was much like a big storm we had last year, almost the same time frame but we were out 2.5 days that time. Maybe 30 minutes later the power was back on this time. The whole incident from first flickers, then brown outs and finally power out and back on again was maybe 1-1/2 hours all together.

 

[tjnamtiw]

When the power first comes back on and before all the loads along the line get picked up, the voltage goes quite high, which will do one heck of a lot of damage too. It's not so much a spike as it is an inverse of a brown out. The voltage regulator I posted will step the voltage back down. I've sat here during similar circumstances as you describe and watched the lights change to indicate the thing is working.

 

[alternativeheat]

When the power first comes back on and before all the loads along the line get picked up, the voltage goes quite high, which will do one heck of a lot of damage too. It's not so much a spike as it is an inverse of a brown out. The voltage regulator I posted will step the voltage back down. I've sat here during similar circumstances as you describe and watched the lights change to indicate the thing is working.

Well right now I just have a plain Jane surge protector. My Tripp Lite I'm pretty sure has some voltage regulation capability built into it or at least compensates some before it trips. I don't know, everything in the house survived the brown outs, the heat was on for my tenant at the time of one of them, we had already shut off our computers. The stove was running through it. We won this time, nothing went poof. The stove even auto evacuated the smoke from the remaining fire, so that was a success too ( vertical vent).

 

[chken]

I have a GE whole house 12k standby generator, with a B&S engine, that I bought from HD. I've had 3 outages since installing my stove and it runs fine on the standby generator. Auto restarts and everything.

 

[HillofBeans]

Dave,
Be sure to let us all know how the investment worked out. Today is FRIDAY, install day!!
another Dave

First update: daughter is walking around in T-shirt with no socks on. Wife can't wipe smile from face. House is a comfortable 74 degrees after 3 hour burn.
Pretty happy right now.

One thing has me scratching my head. Technician suggested I create an access door close to the receptacle. In case the surge protector goes off. Otherwise I'd have to remove stove and zero clearance cabinet to reset. Because the fireplace is set in the corner of room, there does not appear to be a good place to do this. Do I put a notch and cover plate in the slate surround? I'm thinking that it may be time to have an electrician put a surge protector on my service to protect entire house. Anyone ever do this? Cost? Effective?

 

[chken]

First update: daughter is walking around in T-shirt with no socks on. Wife can't wipe smile from face. House is a comfortable 74 degrees after 3 hour burn.
Pretty happy right now.

One thing has me scratching my head. Technician suggested I create an access door close to the receptacle. In case the surge protector goes off. Otherwise I'd have to remove stove and zero clearance cabinet to reset. Because the fireplace is set in the corner of room, there does not appear to be a good place to do this. Do I put a notch and cover plate in the slate surround? I'm thinking that it may be time to have an electrician put a surge protector on my service to protect entire house. Anyone ever do this? Cost? Effective?

I have one on my electrical panel. Cost $30 or $40 at HD.

 

[alternativeheat]

I have a GE whole house 12k standby generator, with a B&S engine, that I bought from HD. I've had 3 outages since installing my stove and it runs fine on the standby generator. Auto restarts and everything.

Good news then, for me anyway and obviously you too !

Also, one time my wife shut down my gen without cutting the switch to the big 220 outlet that feeds my house transfer switch. That blew the gens voltage regulator. I took the generator to a repair guy and then after he found the problem and realized why it blew, I also called Troybuilt and ordered the new regulator. Solid state unit came in, he put it in and tested output, said the power was very stable and very very little wander in voltage under various loads. I may take the $300 gamble and see how the Harman runs on this thing ( that could be my morning coffee talking). But if one thinks about it, the generators own voltage regulator is digital or electronic at least, so ?

They say a tell tale sign of dirty output is it will kill LCD panels, I have several appliances that have run on this gen that have LCD panels on them, all is fine.

 

[alternativeheat]

First update: daughter is walking around in T-shirt with no socks on. Wife can't wipe smile from face. House is a comfortable 74 degrees after 3 hour burn.
Pretty happy right now.

One thing has me scratching my head. Technician suggested I create an access door close to the receptacle. In case the surge protector goes off. Otherwise I'd have to remove stove and zero clearance cabinet to reset. Because the fireplace is set in the corner of room, there does not appear to be a good place to do this. Do I put a notch and cover plate in the slate surround? I'm thinking that it may be time to have an electrician put a surge protector on my service to protect entire house. Anyone ever do this? Cost? Effective?

Welcome to the Happy Club of Harman owners, or pellet stove owners in general ! Enjoy that heat.

I have not looked into whole house surge protection, so I can't help much on that one. Sounds like a great idea though. I Think if you can do a neat job and put a little hatch on the surround, why not. As long as it gains you access to the reset that is. Seems to me the installer could have come up with something better than what he did.

Well anyway, glad it's up and running and doing what you wanted ! When does the surround go on ?

 

[HillofBeans]

I have one on my electrical panel. Cost $30 or $40 at HD.

Did you install yourself? If so, how easy? If not, how much for electrician to come out and do it? I was a laborer for an electrician/ hvac company when I put myself through college and pick up some basic skills. Is this something only a pro should attempt?

 

[jdinny]

I installed an Eaton Whole House Surge Protector from Home Depot three years ago.
When we are on generator power, we run everything, TV's, pc's with no issues.
Haven't lost power since we installed our stove, but when we do, I will definitely try to run my Harman.
It installs on your breaker box and wires in through one of the punch outs in the side.
Took about 20 minutes to install.