Bought a cord of wood - not sure I should be angry with the seller or myself

[DaveInPhilly]

I only have about half a cord, maybe 3/4 of a cord ready to burn this winter. So I ordered a cord from a company I have bought from in the past. (They were initially recommended to me by my chimney service.) The last batch was all sized appropriately and nearly all of it was ready to burn.

This time was just the opposite. Much of it is cut and split huge. Most splits are north of 20" and some are two feet in length. Many are more than 8 inches in diameter. I just can't use these in my stove.

Also, when I called (back in July) I made it very clear I was looking for wood to burn this season and that I was worried it wouldn't be dry enough. She told me they were actually running behind on deliveries because, on principle, they would not deliver wood that couldn't be burned right away. They finally delivered on Saturday (when we weren't home) and much of the wood looks freshly cut. Some of it registers north of 40% on the moisture meter.

Now I didn't specify that I wanted "stove wood" or any specific size, I just reordered what I ordered the first time (they found the last ordered in their computer system,) so I just had them to bring me what they brought the first time.

My question is should I be mad at myself for expecting too much, or do I have a legitimate gripe? I am going to call later today, but I wanted to know what you guys thought, before I make the call.

Here are pics:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=X05lM1BTdlRBUlhNUThnb3BFa2FxWnFjeUlLTS13

ETA: left out a very important "not"

 

[BoiledOver]

1) What was your verbal agreement?
2) 42% is extremely high!

You stated that she stated "She told me they were actually running behind on deliveries because, on principle, they would deliver wood that couldn't be burned right away."

Checking the end of a piece may not be most accurate. Split a piece and check near the center to see if that agrees with the end reading.

In my mind, it boils down to what was agreed upon. Unfortunately some folks won't remain honorable in disputes over money. If you are certain of an agreement that provided you with firewood seasoned for immediate use, then you have an honest complaint.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

You stated that she stated "She told me they were actually running behind on deliveries because, on principle, they would deliver wood that couldn't be burned right away."

I know what principle she was referring to. It's upholding the old tradition that no matter how dry the provider says it will be, it will be freshly cut/split.

In my mind, it boils down to what was agreed upon. Unfortunately some folks won't remain honorable in disputes over money. If you are certain of an agreement that provided you with firewood seasoned for immediate use, then you have an honest complaint.

Right. The reason wood sellers get away with that is because desperate buyers let them. Never pay for the wood sight unseen unless you have a long enough of a relationship to have established trust. Even then you could get burned or partially burned. However, if the only agreement was "they wouldn't deliver wood that couldn't be burned right away", well, they met the legal standard for that because there is no law that prevents the burning of unseasoned wood. Yes, the wood COULD be burned right away. And always specify the required maximum size.

I've met one wood provider over the years that could be trusted every time to deliver the wood exactly as expected. And that provider is me!
So, if you're going to buy firewood, always buy it a year in advance and season it yourself.

 

[kennyp2339]

Compressed wood bricks to mix in with your half cord of seasoned wood, buy a couple different packs now to see what you like, wait until black Friday to purchase tonnage if buying from a big box store like tractor supply (they have an impressive deal and will hold the sale price whether its in stock or not)

 

[DaveInPhilly]

Thanks guys. It's interesting, you all focused on the moisture content, but I was more concerned about the size of the splits. I can't burn half of this, no matter how long I let it dry, unless I break out the saw.

 

[saewoody]

I think you have a legitimate gripe. You definitely need to specify length. But massive splits are inexcusable in my opinion. It's certainly not seasoned, and if you split a piece I'm sure it would read higher than 42%. Best of luck.


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[armanidog]

Hopefully they will bring you shorter wood.
If not, next week will bring some cool weather and it will be tolerable to cut it.
A thread from 6 years ago.- https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-30-and-my-firewood-is-too-long-to-fit.54894/
I've had to cut a bunch of wood that was too long, it is not fun. I'd make some kind of holder or jig and cut several pieces at once.

 

[Rickb]

2 orders ago I told the guy 16" max length and how dry is the wood. He said it would be ready to burn. I told him I would be the judge of that. Deliver 1 cord. Almost half the wood was over 18" which wont fit so its fire pit wood now, and none was dry. I always assume it wont be. Last order from a new guy he told me it was split early spring and it would all be 16". Every piece looks to be 15.5" to 16.5". I did not bother to test it but pulled a piece and split it and tested it after a couple months and its at 18%. I kept his number.

All you can do is keep calling back the good guys and let them know they are good and why. My guy actually asks if its for a new stove or and open fireplace/firepit. People with open fireplaces complain when they use dry wood cause it burns to fast.(Not an issue with my BK.)

 

[kennyp2339]

Well two things could occure, both kinda suck, you can call the company and make a complaint and base the reason 1st on length with a secondary of moisture content and hope that they make good on either a free load that's the appropriate size and drier than what you have, or you can buy a ban saw to cut you pieces down to size, make an ugly bin for the shorties and try to find a dealer that has dryer wood.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Thanks guys. It's interesting, you all focused on the moisture content, but I was more concerned about the size of the splits. I can't burn half of this, no matter how long I let it dry, unless I break out the saw.

That's because anyone with a saw and a splitting maul can solve the size issue but to solve the moisture content issue at this time of year you would need a wood kiln. I'm assuming you don't have that?

 

[Kevin*]

Most states have laws about selling firewood. In Washington the receipt must have the wood and amount in cords, wether it dry, green ect and plate # of vehicle delivering. I have never had any luck from 4 different company's when I tired buying and I wouldn't give a cc number before hand.

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[fishki]

I only bought wood once, friend of a friend of a friend deal, wood came in 24" long, splits bigger than my stove, and sopping wet. I trust no one but myself to cut my wood. I should have demanded my money back and told him to pick up the wood.

I honestly don't think many homeowners know any better so everyone selling wood can just send them what they got.

 

[kennyp2339]

I only bought wood once, friend of a friend of a friend deal, wood came in 24" long, splits bigger than my stove, and sopping wet. I trust no one but myself to cut my wood. I should have demanded my money back and told him to pick up the wood.

I honestly don't think many homeowners know any better so everyone selling wood can just send them what they got.

I also think a lot of the wood sellers don't know what there doing either. There were many threads here that were started either by someone brand new to burning or someone that upgraded there old setup to a new EPA approved stove and made statements of my wood stove doesn't work correctly / I can only burn with the door cracked open. All the while they claim there wood is dry, cut and split / bought in the beginning of fall, they are usually adamant about the stove being the issue until they buy a moisture meter. Same with wood sellers, yes you have so seasoned wood sellers that know what they are doing but generally speaking the majority want to sell wood for a cheap buck, but don't have the space in there yard to stack and dry correctly, or simply don't have the time to do it properly

 

[peakbagger]

A lot of misunderstandings would be avoided if folks visited the wood sellers woodyard. If they dont have a firewood processor ( takes logs, cuts them, splits them and then outstacks them), might as well keep driving if you need consistent length. Next thing is look how much split inventory do they have on hand. Stacks of logs dont really count as the only wood that dries is at the two ends. The only way they are going to sell you dry wood is if they have wood piled up for two years from now drying unless they are planning on going out of business.

Keep in mind a firewood processor needs relatively straight wood. Either the dealer is just paying a premium for straight wood or someone is getting the "ugly wood" like crotches and curved wood. Some dealers just set it aside and hand cut it. Sure homeowners may have the time to hand mark the logs for length but most dealers are going to do it by eye and thats going to give you more variation in lengths. Some folks have large boilers and they can handle a lot more variation so the seller may set this odd wood aside for large boiler owners. Unfortunately a lot of wood burners want pretty wood, uniform length pieces, split in similar sizes. A local wood dealer used to sell "ski lodge" wood at a premium. Folks paying to rent a ski lodge for week want clean perfectly dry wood so a dealer set up to supply it.

As for moisture, barring a dealer owning a kiln or a very large operation, its highly unlikely you are going to get bone dry wood. It just does not make financial sense to buy logs two years in advance of a sale when typically buyers are always popping up that are willing to pay a premium in the fall as they just installed the stove or just didnt plan in advance. I think stove dealers generally are very complicit in encouraging folks to buy stoves even though they know that the wood supply is tight and its highly likely that the new stove owner is going to be unhappy with their stove performance if they try to make it through that first winter with wet wood. Thats how long term wood burners get such great deals on craigslist for year old woodstoves

I have run into small wood suppliers that go against the above recommendations but it comes down to they are doing it as a hobby. Its pretty rare to find these folks as they have long term customers.

The other thing about checking out the woodyard is to see if the dealer even has one. There are sleazy individuals that just steal wood. Usually its in rural areas where folks leave stacks out in the woods at their wood lot. The sleazy folks tend not to work steady jobs so they figure out where the wood is and when the owners are around and they hit the stacks when they think things are clear. Wood is not readily identifiable and unless caught in the act, its a minor property crime that the generally overworked understaffed local law enforcement arent going to spend a lot of time pursuing. Even if they do get busted, the local courts dont really want to waste the time and resources to actually jail these folks and generally at the most its slap on the wrist.

 

[DaveInPhilly]

You stated that she stated "She told me they were actually running behind on deliveries because, on principle, they would deliver wood that couldn't be burned right away."

Fixed it, she definitely told me they would not deliver wood that couldn't be burned right away.

Checking the end of a piece may not be most accurate. Split a piece and check near the center to see if that agrees with the end reading.

True, but its not going to yield a lower reading, or might it?

As for the agreement, there was much of one. I made it clear I wanted to wood that I could burn this year, she made it clear that's what I was buying. i never specified the size.

 

[DaveInPhilly]

That's because anyone with a saw and a splitting maul can solve the size issue but to solve the moisture content issue at this time of year you would need a wood kiln. I'm assuming you don't have that?

I guess the thing is, I never expect to get truly well seasoned wood, just good enough. I do have a saw, and a splitting ax (which is why I have some wood ready to burn) but before we moved to this house, I didn't. We lived on a city street in Philadelphia and barely had enough space behind the house to stack wood, certainly no room to process it. I would be absolutely lost if we still lived there. For now, I'm mad enough I had to pay for wood, but to pay for wood that I still have to process really tips me over the edge.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Fixed it, she definitely told me they would not deliver wood that couldn't be burned right away.

Sleazy and misleading because ALL wood can be burned right away if you're an idiot who burns wet wood. But the stuff they delivered is definitely NOT dry or seasoned.

True, but its not going to yield a lower reading, or might it?

Correct. In my experience it will always read more moisture, often much more, in the middle of a freshly split piece vs. taking an end grain reading.

As for the agreement, there was much of one. I made it clear I wanted to wood that I could burn this year, she made it clear that's what I was buying. i never specified the size.

I think there is little doubt you have the right to demand they come get it and refund your money. If she refuses it's not really worth trying to sue them in small claims court (unless you want to do it as a matter of principle). On the size thing, that's your bad for not making sure it met your requirements before it was delivered.

 

[Soundchasm]

I quit buying because 4/5's of sellers answer any question in the affirmative.

"Is this from the moon where there is no moisture?"
"Yes, it came to earth in a SpaceX return flight. It was on the moon's surface with the bark off for millions of years"

These damn "commercial" deliveries are why I bought an electric splitter in the first place. Their splits are so huge they had no chance of drying in the time allotted. These sellers probably run an ad saying they have a place to dump wood for free, and the lengths they get are whatever it took to make a limb fall.

I found one guy who delivered the right quantity, and I slowly learned it was up to me to order a year in advance. I got so angry I got good at fending for myself.

 

[CheapBassTurd]

In my area, there is ONE seller who is guranteed mega dry and does not have to advertise.
Highway side property, and one can easily see 1+ acre of all huge cubed stacks. He sells
10 or 12 blocks per season, period. Coupla sections are gray and/or dark brown, greens, etc.
Rotates annually about the property. Top dollar but it's short cuts and nearly flammable. lol

That's about the only way I'd do it too seeing life as a stover, and having a conscience.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

People need to come to the understanding that 90% of the wood sellers out there are not seasoning the wood... the wood that you are buying right now was split this year. I don't know any supplier that sits on his wood for 2yrs and sells for 200 per cord. I have posted this before. The people who are buying wood are no different then the people who process there wood.. just plann on seasoning the wood.. what you purchase this year. Burn it next year.