BK Princess insert creosote problem

[bholler]

Englander stoves are EPA certified. Are they?. They do the same that the high dollar ones. Same technology. What, better buffles? Tubes? Asterisk? Ok I give you that. So? Why many are more expensive the a damn BK and don't perform the same?

Yes they are epa certified. But that is only about emissions. And there arent any simple steel bodied tube stoves that i know of that cost more than sterl bodied bks. Yes of course if you get a cast or soapstone stove it will cost more but what do you expect. The ashford costs more to.

Now i was always told i have no right to comment on the performance of blazekings when i hadnt run one. Well now i have. How many regencies have you run? Quads? Lopis? Pacific energies? I have run englanders and for the money they are good stoves but there simply is not the level of control you get from higher quality noncats.

 

[jetsam]

Makes sense. Gotta burn X amount of wood for Y BTUs. And while cats are a fair bitore efficient at low burns doesntdthe efficiency even out at medium high and then actually tilt in favor of tube stoves for high burns?

I don't think either kind has a big advantage on high based on high burn efficiency numbers.

Also, when my cat stove is really cranking, there are rolling secondaries in the firebox, and then the cat reburns that. I don't think a whole lot is escaping secondary combustion.

 

[bholler]

Makes sense. Gotta burn X amount of wood for Y BTUs. And while cats are a fair bitore efficient at low burns doesntdthe efficiency even out at medium high and then actually tilt in favor of tube stoves for high burns?

Not if you ask the bk guys. Didnt you know bks can make btus out of thin air?

 

[bholler]

I don't think either kind has a big advantage on high based on high burn efficiency numbers.

Also, when my cat stove is really cranking, there are rolling secondaries in the firebox, and then the cat reburns that. I don't think a whole lot is escaping secondary combustion.

I agree i dont see a ton of difference burning high other than the heat output of the princess is lower. But even on high the bk burn times are better so of course the heat output is lower.

 

[jetsam]

Not if you ask the bk guys. Didnt you know bks can make btus out of thin air?

Mine also makes ice cream.

 

[Diabel]

get 30 hrs of usable heat

At a 30h mark my wife’s smelly candle produces more “usable heat” than my Princess.

 

[lsucet]

It doesn't matter which ones I burn or not. It is about the hiw the technologies work. If your experience is that is the same, it is ok with me. But it is not my experience. Every day we see people here concern about the high temperature of their non cat stoves. Asking if is ok 700 and almost 800 stove top and not have the way of stop the climbing and the air completely shut. That is many different brand, not on only Englander. Many high end stoves.

 

[lsucet]

At a 30h mark my wife’s smelly candle produces more “usable heat” than my Princess.

For some that is enough to keep the house to the like temperature.

 

[Rickb]

It doesn't matter which ones I burn or not. It is about the hiw the technologies work. If your experience is that is the same, it is ok with me. But it is not my experience. Every day we see people here concern about the high temperature of their non cat stoves. Asking if is ok 700 and almost 800 stove top and not have the way of stop the climbing and the air completely shut. That is many different brand, not on only Englander. Many high end stoves.

I don't think bholler is saying that BK's are not more controllable then pretty much any stove out on the market. He is just stating that higher end tube stoves have better control then cheap tube stoves......

 

[lsucet]

I don't think bholler is saying that BK's are not more controllable then pretty much any stove out on the market. He is just stating that higher end tube stoves have better control then cheap tube stoves......

I did understand that and he just don't want to accept that including that some can be controlled really well they still burning on the hot side. Regardless brand and prices. That is how the technology works.
Just the point of looking to get secondary burn on a non cat is making you run it hotter than a cat. That is all I am saying, but no, I am wrong cause I did run cheap stoves. OKAY!!

 

[Rickb]

I did understand that and he just don't want to accept that including that some can be controlled really well they still burning on the hot side. Regardless brand and prices. That is how the technology works.
Just the point of looking to get secondary burn on a non cat is making you run it hotter than a cat. That is all I am saying, but no, I am wrong cause I did run cheap stoves. OKAY!!

Again I have been reading on here for years and I have never seen bholler say at anytime that you can run a tube stove of any kind as low as a blaze king....... I have seen hime post that depending on the situation the blaze king may not be any help because somepoeple need to run on medium to high heat all the time.

 

[bholler]

I did understand that and he just don't want to accept that including that some can be controlled really well they still burning on the hot side. Regardless brand and prices. That is how the technology works.
Just the point of looking to get secondary burn on a non cat is making you run it hotter than a cat. That is all I am saying, but no, I am wrong cause I did run cheap stoves. OKAY!!

Yes of course they burn hotter than cat stoves. But the better non cats typically do a better job of putting that heat into the house and less up the chimney. So the stack temp on them while hotter is not that much hotter than a cat stove.

 

[bholler]

Again I have been reading on here for years and I have never seen bholler say at anytime that you can run a tube stove of any kind as low as a blaze king....... I have seen hime post that depending on the situation the blaze king may not be any help because somepoeple need to run on medium to high heat all the time.

Exactly thankyou

 

[lsucet]

Again I have been reading on here for years and I have never seen bholler say at anytime that you can run a tube stove of any kind as low as a blaze king....... I have seen hime post that depending on the situation the blaze king may not be any help because somepoeple need to run on medium to high heat all the time.

Well, re-read again cause all I said was that chimney can stay more clean due to non cat burning hotter and no, that was not accepted. By him I was misinformed and later I was running cheap stove. I did mentioned that I like to burn hot to in somehow prevent the situation as much as possible cause if the low burn 90% of the time. I also agreed with him that what was in ALREADY there will not be take care of, but can be prevented in somehow burning hot on reloads or often. That was it.

 

[Highbeam]

Maybe cause you need to run hot due to your heat demand. Not in my case. 250 to 300 with half of the wood in there on low. Sorry but I never saw that on my non cat till everything was coals in there and almost out.

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Internal probe meter flue temps vs. single wall skin temperatures.

 

[lsucet]

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Internal probe meter flue temps vs. single wall skin temperatures.

In my case I have probe on both and double wall telescope.

 

[Rickb]

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Internal probe meter flue temps vs. single wall skin temperatures.

Exactly what highbeam said.... Stove output and stack temps are different animals.

That said I would have thought BK stack temps to be well below tube stoves but I have n o way of proving it one way or the other.

 

[Rickb]

In my case I have probe on both and double wall telescope.

But you would need to have those on a tube stove that may be "higher end" / "Better" / "whatever" then your old nc30. Maybe a better stove thats a tube stove doesnt run as high stack temps.... Again I have no idea...

According to bhollar his temps are not drastically different.

 

[bholler]

Exactly what highbeam said.... Stove output and stack temps are different animals.

That said I would have thought BK stack temps to be well below tube stoves but I have n o way of proving it one way or the other.

Not from what i have seen

 

[bholler]

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Internal probe meter flue temps vs. single wall skin temperatures.

I am not i am comparing the same pipe with the same thermometer in the same place going into the same chimney in the same house with the same wood. So i think that is a pretty fair comparison.

 

[bholler]

But you would need to have those on a tube stove that may be "higher end" / "Better" / "whatever" then your old nc30. Maybe a better stove thats a tube stove doesnt run as high stack temps.... Again I have no idea...

According to bhollar his temps are not drastically different.

You are correct

 

[Highbeam]

But you would need to have those on a tube stove that may be "higher end" / "Better" / "whatever" then your old nc30. Maybe a better stove thats a tube stove doesnt run as high stack temps.... Again I have no idea...

According to bhollar his temps are not drastically different.

Do you know that bholler is using flue probe temperature meter or skin temperature of his pipe?

This whole “cheap” noncat is a false argument used to try and distract us all. The nc30 is as controllable as any noncat. Now there are, or used to be, some uncontrollable noncat stoves that had no intake control at all and really ran hot!

My noncat hearthstone stove ran very high flue temperatures compared to the bk on the same hearth doing the same job. Easily 50% higher when both were fully up to temp and on their low output.

 

[bholler]

Do you know that bholler is using flue probe temperature meter or skin temperature of his pipe?

This whole “cheap” noncat is a false argument used to try and distract us all. The nc30 is as controllable as any noncat. Now there are, or used to be, some uncontrollable noncat stoves that had no intake control at all and really ran hot!

My noncat hearthstone stove ran very high flue temperatures compared to the bk on the same hearth doing the same job. Easily 50% higher when both were fully up to temp and on their low output.

And how many other tube stoves have you run to make that claim???? One hearthstone which are pretty far from the most efficient tube stoves out there.

 

[bholler]

Do you know that bholler is using flue probe temperature meter or skin temperature of his pipe?

This whole “cheap” noncat is a false argument used to try and distract us all. The nc30 is as controllable as any noncat. Now there are, or used to be, some uncontrollable noncat stoves that had no intake control at all and really ran hot!

My noncat hearthstone stove ran very high flue temperatures compared to the bk on the same hearth doing the same job. Easily 50% higher when both were fully up to temp and on their low output.

Do i need to start pulling up quotes you have made about your nc30 again?? You admit the air to the doghouse is completly unregulated. Well on most higher end tube stoves it is. That in itself makes a huge difference. Then there is the design of the defectors above the baffle the nc30s is much smaller leading to les retention of heat and higher stack temps.

 

[bholler]

Do you know that bholler is using flue probe temperature meter or skin temperature of his pipe?

This whole “cheap” noncat is a false argument used to try and distract us all. The nc30 is as controllable as any noncat. Now there are, or used to be, some uncontrollable noncat stoves that had no intake control at all and really ran hot!

My noncat hearthstone stove ran very high flue temperatures compared to the bk on the same hearth doing the same job. Easily 50% higher when both were fully up to temp and on their low output.

I am also curious why you think it matters a bit how i take the measurements. It really doesnt because i am taking them exactly the same way with both stoves.