BEV Pickup Trucks

[begreen]

Cool video, but I hope he mis-spoke at 2:50? 671 charge cycles and the battery life drops by 80%? I hope not, people would be looking to ditch and trade way sooner than that. I suspect he means it drops to 80%, not by 80%.

Yes. It drops to 80%. Note that those cycles are at full charge amperage which equals about 340 or more miles per cycle or around 228,000 miles or more during this 671 charge cycle span. At that point, an 80% remaining charge is still good, just 20% less mileage range. FWIW, I have never kept a car or truck that long.

What I would like to know is whether typical home L2 charging at a slower, lower amperage, extends that number a lot. If so, would the average owner see 400K miles or more out of the battery pack? If so, that would be awesome.

 

[EbS-P]

Yes. It drops to 80%. Note that those cycles are at full charge amperage which equals about 340 or more miles per cycle or around 228,000 miles or more during this 671 charge cycle span. At that point, an 80% remaining charge is still good, just 20% less mileage range. FWIW, I have never kept a car or truck that long.

What I would like to know is whether typical home L2 charging at a slower, lower amperage, extends that number a lot. If so, would the average owner see 400K miles or more out of the battery pack? If so, that would be awesome.

400k is not realistic based on past ownership trends. My family drives vehicles into the ground and the highest mileage one was 185k. What’s a 20 year old BEV running like? We will know in a few more years. We know the battery is the most expensive item to replace. And so a bad battery sends the high mileage vehicle to salvage, will we get used drive units sure used batteries ummm Tesla is installing them. Would you trust Joe’s Garage?

I looked at a ford lightning tear down video. Yeah it’s a man electric truck and yeah they had lots of space but the manufacturing process looked expensive because the engineers just went through their parts bin and found off the shelf parts to stick on wherever there was room. Teslas cyber truck will be as disruptive as the rest of their line up to the auto industry. It’s going to be an expensive truck but taking all the lessons they have learned and going ground up and not rushing I think the profit margins will be much higher than an ICE truck.

 

[begreen]

400k is not realistic based on past ownership trends.

It's realistic for taxi and lease fleets.
A lot of people like salesmen rack up 200k on a good car in 4 yrs. This would be a boon to them too.

 

[Vg3200p]

I still can't get over the price tag. This is why I drive old clapped out vehicles. My truck was $1200 wifes car 5k. Our backup car was hers from high-school. Bought a brand new Ford Fiesta in 2017 I think for under 14k. If people would quit paying 100k for new cars they would have to lower thier price. I can't even imagine paying 30k for a new vehichle.

 

[woodgeek]

I still can't get over the price tag. This is why I drive old clapped out vehicles. My truck was $1200 wifes car 5k. Our backup car was hers from high-school. Bought a brand new Ford Fiesta in 2017 I think for under 14k. If people would quit paying 100k for new cars they would have to lower thier price. I can't even imagine paying 30k for a new vehichle.

I'm with you. I can't see paying $100k for a truck, or even $60k for a car. I don't care if it has 'Corinthian Leather' on the inside.

My first EV was a $220/mo lease, 8 years ago. My current one works out to $333/mo lease. Even that seems extravagant to me.

For the record, the EV sales in California were sold below MSRP (non-Teslas) or with cheap leases (Teslas). The deals available in California make buying a LOT easier than in other states.

IMO EV sales in the US are 'scaling' just now. Some used EVs are available now, but prices are held up by demand (in turn due to high gas prices). In a few years, cheap used EVs will start to appear all over... esp cheap if the price of gas falls back to historical levels.

 

[peakbagger]

My guess is the life of a vehicle up north is still going to be limited by rust and corrosion. The Rav 4 Hybrids and possibly my Prime is already having issues with a high voltage battery assembly corroding. The cable is not failing but a outer RF shield is failing. Toyota has changed the design at least once but as of this date they are not covering it under warranty and its reportedly a $3,500 fix. My guess is it's a future class action lawsuit. Teslas are designed and primarily marketed in milder climates and it will be interesting to see what happens over the years as they migrate up into the salt zone. Talk to any new vehicle owner and a lot of them are ending at the dealer for electrical gremlins.

I could see leasing to be an option in the future for my primary vehicle and let someone else deal with corrosion.

 

[Shank]

My guess is the life of a vehicle up north is still going to be limited by rust and corrosion. The Rav 4 Hybrids and possibly my Prime is already having issues with a high voltage battery assembly corroding. The cable is not failing but a outer RF shield is failing. Toyota has changed the design at least once but as of this date they are not covering it under warranty and its reportedly a $3,500 fix. My guess is it's a future class action lawsuit. Teslas are designed and primarily marketed in milder climates and it will be interesting to see what happens over the years as they migrate up into the salt zone. Talk to any new vehicle owner and a lot of them are ending at the dealer for electrical gremlins.

I could see leasing to be an option in the future for my primary vehicle and let someone else deal with corrosion.

I'm not sure what the concerns (if any) with using a lanolin based undercoating like fluid film, but this makes an incredible difference with salt on ICE vehicles I have had/seen. I know of an 2011 truck with approximately 185k miles still very clean corrosion wise.

 

[Ashful]

I'm with you. I can't see paying $100k for a truck, or even $60k for a car. I don't care if it has 'Corinthian Leather' on the inside.

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not real picky about the type of leather (as long as it is leather), but I will plunk down an extra $20k for every additional 100 hp you offer me, almost without limit. I hung out with an old friend yesterday who puts that value on heated seats and automatic doors, things I couldn't care less about. Manufacturers must still make vehicles for people with questionable taste, if they're the paying customer.

 

[Shank]

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not real picky about the type of leather (as long as it is leather), but I will plunk down an extra $20k for every additional 100 hp you offer me, almost without limit. I hung out with an old friend yesterday who puts that value on heated seats and automatic doors, things I couldn't care less about. Manufacturers must still make vehicles for people with questionable taste, if they're the paying customer.

The power idea is seemingly going away on most things other than trucks and performance cars.. Having shopped for a smaller SUV I can't settle for the sub 200HP from almost every manufacture even though I won't primarily be driving it.

 

[Ashful]

The power idea is seemingly going away on most things other than trucks and performance cars.. Having shopped for a smaller SUV I can't settle for the sub 200HP from almost every manufacture even though I won't primarily be driving it.

Yeah, I know, which is fine. In fact, the high torque offered by BEV's is likely to cause some now problems, in this regard, as they offer so much more than the average driver today is used to having.

Sub 200 hp SUV's? Ha! I still haven't forgiven my wife for buying a Durango R/T in 2020, instead of the SRT! It was her car, I was told to "back off". If they make a variant of the car you want, but with more horsepower... that's the one you buy!

 

[Shank]

Yeah, I know, which is fine. In fact, the high torque offered by BEV's is likely to cause some now problems, in this regard, as they offer so much more than the average driver today is used to having.

Sub 200 hp SUV's? Ha! I still haven't forgiven my wife for buying a Durango R/T in 2020, instead of the SRT! It was her car, I was told to "back off". If they make a variant of the car you want, but with more horsepower... that's the one you buy!

I have had very limited experience with anything with a battery but I am sure I will like the torque.

Compact, but yes. It's hard to find anything that's not a 4 cylinder. My wife is currently in a Yukon with just over 400hp. I consider that just about adequate for that size vehicle but we really don't need as much vehicle for the next. I sure miss my 500hp 6 speed manual car...

 

[EbS-P]

Different strokes for different folks. I'm not real picky about the type of leather (as long as it is leather), but I will plunk down an extra $20k for every additional 100 hp you offer me, almost without limit. I hung out with an old friend yesterday who puts that value on heated seats and automatic doors, things I couldn't care less about. Manufacturers must still make vehicles for people with questionable taste, if they're the paying customer.

Got the full story from my Brother in law and his new Tesla Plaid. He almost wrecked it showing off to a friend on the first week. I think he now of the opinion that there is an upper limit to the amount of power that manufacturers should be allowed to manufacture. He took it out of Plaid mode and hasn’t put it back in. So much for that extra 20k$

 

[Ashful]

Got the full story from my Brother in law and his new Tesla Plaid. He almost wrecked it showing off to a friend on the first week. I think he now of the opinion that there is an upper limit to the amount of power that manufacturers should be allowed to manufacture. He took it out of Plaid mode and hasn’t put it back in. So much for that extra 20k$

Meh... I grew up at the drag strip. Had my first RWD-only 9-second car in my mid-20's. So, yeah... we can all laugh at folks letting high-HP cars get away from them on YouTube, but plaid is right up my alley.

 

[woodgeek]

Got the full story from my Brother in law and his new Tesla Plaid. He almost wrecked it showing off to a friend on the first week. I think he now of the opinion that there is an upper limit to the amount of power that manufacturers should be allowed to manufacture. He took it out of Plaid mode and hasn’t put it back in. So much for that extra 20k$

Haha. The first time I did a 'launch' with the 2017 Bolt I was floored. It's maybe 2.8 seconds 0-30. I have never felt like I needed more than that. Just worked out that that is about 0.5 'g's.

 

[walhondingnashua]

The Plaid seems to be other-level fast/quick to a point it is not safe. Wait until the roadster comes out. Musk claims sub 2 sec car for around $200,000.

 

[Ashful]

The Plaid seems to be other-level fast/quick to a point it is not safe. Wait until the roadster comes out. Musk claims sub 2 sec car for around $200,000.

It's only 9.23 seconds 1/4 mile. Mind-bending fast off the line, but actually relatively weak top end, for its price point.

I'd still love to have one, though. Great fun around town. I don't need 200 mph.

 

[EbS-P]

The Plaid seems to be other-level fast/quick to a point it is not safe. Wait until the roadster comes out. Musk claims sub 2 sec car for around $200,000.

Quad motor cyber truck will be fast. Probably not 2.0 sec.

 

[boomfire]

... I don't need 200 mph.

Ahem, always need more speed
I am not a car guy, but i enjoy all things MC. I remember topping out my bike at 165 on a circuit and had ear to ear grin on my face and thinking, too bad i couldn't go faster.

 

[EbS-P]

It's only 9.23 seconds 1/4 mile. Mind-bending fast off the line, but actually relatively weak top end, for its price point.

I'd still love to have one, though. Great fun around town. I don't need 200 mph.

A 9 sec daily driver is pretty amazing….

 

[Ashful]

A 9 sec daily driver is pretty amazing….

Yep. I've had a few. One had the engine sticking so far out of the hood that friends would joke I needed a passenger to make right-hand turns.

Ahem, always need more speed

Not around here! High HP is fun, but high speed kills. I presently have a 500 hp sedan with a top speed near 200 mph, but I've never had it over maybe 95 mph. I just get from zero to that 95 mph faster than the rest of the folks on the highway... excepting the Teslas, of course. They take me off the line by a good margin, and we're near parity 30 - 60 mph, but my ICE is quicker 60 - 90 mph.

I'd personally be fine if they governed all on-road vehicles at 100 mph in the US. Our roads aren't exactly Autobahn quality.

 

[begreen]

I still can't get over the price tag. This is why I drive old clapped out vehicles. My truck was $1200 wifes car 5k. Our backup car was hers from high-school. Bought a brand new Ford Fiesta in 2017 I think for under 14k. If people would quit paying 100k for new cars they would have to lower thier price. I can't even imagine paying 30k for a new vehichle.

Luxury sales are way up in 2022. Another symptom of wealth migration to the top.

None of the horsepower race makes sense if the point of EVs is to reduce the carbon footprint. Producing more boy toys does not solve the daily transportation needs of 99% of the population. In the hands of poor drivers, they are causing more accidents.

 

[begreen]

MO EV sales in the US are 'scaling' just now. Some used EVs are available now, but prices are held up by demand (in turn due to high gas prices). In a few years, cheap used EVs will start to appear all over... esp cheap if the price of gas falls back to historical levels.

We saw that with the Nissan Leaf pre-pandemic. You could pick one up in nice condition with relatively low miles for $5-7K.

 

[Ashful]

None of the horsepower race makes sense if the point of EVs is to reduce the carbon footprint. Producing more boy toys does not solve the daily transportation needs of 99% of the population. In the hands of poor drivers, they are causing more accidents.

The OP stated being "on the fence" about the purchase of a Rivian R1T, a $70,000 x 1000 hp pickup truck. I dare say you've missed the point of this thread, begreen!

To the fraction of the population considering the purchase of a Rivian R1T, a reduction in carbon footprint might be a nice side effect, and not the sole purpose of considering this very luxurious purchase.

 

[begreen]

The OP left the room a while ago but he ended up ordering a GMC Sierra Denali, not the Rivian. There was no mention of what the desired characteristics were but the price of the Rivian was a showstopper. Might just want to be the first one on the block to show it off.

FWIW $70k is not far off from an F150 Lariat in price.

 

[Ashful]

FWIW $70k is not far off from an F250 Lariat in price.

But the payload and towing of the Rivian R1T are right square in the middle of F150 / 1500 territory, yet it remains more expensive than an F250, similarly equipped. It's only fair comparison might really be the V10 SRT pickup that Dodge discontinued a decade ago.

You're going to have trouble convincing me that any purchase of the R1T is for any reason other than show or giggles, similar to nearly any high-HP vehicle.