Best Zero Clearance Wood Option

[mcdougy]

And your old definition of a stove is pretty accurate. The high efficency fireplaces could easily be called built in stoves because that is what they really are.

Roger that.
For those not familiar, as far as my "fp30 fireplace" goes it's basically a insert. The difference being that no masonry structure needed. You create the look of a fireplace/insert. The fp30 is the summit firebox placed inside another box of light gauge steel that has some insulation attached to it. Then you are able to push it directly up to the rear wall.
As far as performance, I am amazed at how well this one heats a new home.
IMO not any less or any more than stove. Possibly better than a insert because the secondary box is insulated and the wall you've pushed it up against is either a interior wall or a insulated exterior wall. A better situation than a insert placed in uninsulated masonary structure.
Thumbs up to these types of units. They can solely heat 6200 sqft in Ontario Canada, I'm living it & loving it. It's pumping btus tonight.

 

[begreen]

For those not familiar, as far as my "fp30 fireplace" goes it's basically a insert.

That is the wrong term, often used by fireplace salespersons. An insert is a convection jacketed stove that inserts into an existing fireplace. The FP30 is an EPA zero-clearance fireplace. The Summit insert is a different beast. What they have in common are the firebox innards. One can not install the Summit insert in a wood framed enclosure. The FP30's additional metal cabinet and shielding allow this.

 

[mcdougy]

I was referring to a insert in the terms it can only produce heat out the front. Radiating or fan powered. Where as a stove I imagine it producing heat from all sides.

 

[bholler]

I was referring to a insert in the terms it can only produce heat out the front. Radiating or fan powered. Where as a stove I imagine it producing heat from all sides.

Yes but it is a very common area of confusion that can lead to disastrous results. An insert can only be put in an approved fireplace.

 

[mcdougy]

Yes but it is a very common area of confusion that can lead to disastrous results. An insert can only be put in an approved fireplace.

People are amazing creatures, there intelligence is questionable.....I can't imagine why you would think you could put a insert in a wood structure. Yes that would be disastrous.

 

[bholler]

People are amazing creatures, there intelligence is questionable.....I can't imagine why you would think you could put a insert in a wood structure. Yes that would be disastrous.

Sadly it happens.

 

[webby3650]

People are amazing creatures, there intelligence is questionable.....I can't imagine why you would think you could put a insert in a wood structure. Yes that would be disastrous.

Like I said. Terminology is the issue here...

 

[mcdougy]

In regards to a zero clearance fireplace what do you folks consider the key to longevity of the firebox? I try not to think long of the situation I would be in if there is a major issue with the firebox. Do fire boxes eventually wear out? If so what's a person keep in mind to not let or prolong failure of the firebox?
This is my only worry about a zc fireplace as alot of money can be spent on the facade.

 

[nrc]

My wife and I have our fingers crossed that we'll be able to build a cabin in the boonies for retirement. I was thinking about a nice BK Sirocco for it but then I noticed that the builder's drawings all state "Pre-Fab Fireplace Insert". I assume that actually means a ZC manufactured fireplace and not really an insert.

I suppose that makes sense given that it's probably more economical to get a good ZC unit than to build a masonry fireplace and then put an insert in it. It just seems like cheating to frame in a fireplace and put stone veneer on it to get that proper fireplace look.

I never thought to ask them about it when we visited their models. The models both had rustic open fireplaces just for ambiance. For most products they have preferred providers, but they don't seem to do that with fireplaces. The only fireplace vendor at their last event sells "Kozy Heat" fireplaces.

https://www.kozyheat.com/products/wood-burning-fireplaces/

That doesn't look like what I saw in any of their models or galleries. Anyone know what this one is?



We're shopping much more on the economy end of the scale on their cabin plans, but I love that fireplace. :D

 

[EbS-P]

6’ from 55” is kinda close. I have no issues at 12’ with a 55”. If it’s new construction I vote stove. Photo taken 10’ from tv

Not sure now if we're doing a fireplace or going back to a woodstove now. The fireplace was considered because we could have a hearth and put a TV over it but we have concern the TV will be too high for comfortable use because you have to tilt your head too much. Even with a zero clearance model it looks like the bottom of the TV would be about 5' off the ground. Does anyone have a TV setup like that - will having a tilt TV wall mount make that less of a problem? We'll be sitting 6' from a 55" TV in the room.

Alternatively we'll put a wood stove or fireplace where we planned but put the TV in the NE corner of the room at normal height so it would 2.5-3' lower but the max TV we could fit in that corner is probably 49"?

I was wondering if anyone can offer feedback on this ZC fireplace - Supreme Astra24CF

Similar to the RSF Opel 3C, it's output is more like what we need in our super tight house but the style is better than the RSF and the fact it doesn't have a cat means we wouldn't have to worry about cat replacement in 5-7 years which can be a significant cost. It's also the most user friendly in log size - 24" logs is huge (vs 18" for RSF) and it burns for up to 10 hours which is nice. It also can use a variety of cheaper 6" chimneys rather than RSF that requires an expensive 7" Excel chimney.

Output is 12,237 to 23,872 BTU/hr which good.

(broken link removed to http://www.supremem.com/astra_24cf.php)

Has an automatic air control feature that reminds me of the thermostat feature on the Blaze King:

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[BKVP]

Low demand most likely. Gas peninsula fireplaces are much more popular. Changing regs may affect this market soon.

Hold it! The European models, tested outside the USA, use a completely different test method. It has been demonstrated over and over at EPA authorized test labs that European models face extreme challenges passing on our test methods. So the published results should be compared based upon identical test method results.

 

[BKVP]

There is a broad spectrum of ZCs on the market. They range from very cheap contractor specials to quite efficient, EPA phase II heaters. To sort out the better heaters, look for the EPA rating for starters.

There is no such product as zero clearance fireplace....although it has clearly been used both in industry and public. The proper term, manufactured fireplace, is what industry is pushing to replace the more popular term.

So there are manufactured fireplaces and there are heaters that resemble fireplaces. According to the EPA 2015 NSPS, a fireplace must meet three conditions. I'll attach actual definitions under the rule.

The rest are heaters, under AAA of the rule and are required to be emissions/efficiency tested.

This distinction might explain why some "fireplaces" have more data that others. It also distinguishes EPA Certified compared to EPA Compliant.

 

[BKVP]

Forgive my ZC ignorance- I've seen people posting that they heat their houses with ZC units, but clearly some ZC units are purely decorative. How do you sort the heaters from the ornaments?

See the last post...they are defined under EPA law.

 

[BKVP]

I looked more and found two options I liked better with lower minimum mantle heights too

Non-cat:
Superior WRT4820
http://superiorfireplaces.us.com/products/wrt4820

Cat:
FireplaceX 42 Apex Clean Face Wood Fireplace
http://www.fireplacex.com/ProductGuide/ProductDetail.aspx?modelsku=98500107

Given that I will typical run low to med all the time - likely between 13000-18000 BTU/hr, which model do you think would better suit my application?

You can also look at non combustible mantels. These are popular in the application you are looking at. Look at MagraHearth for example. Metal bracket gets attached to the wall and a concrete mantel slides onto the bracket. I have seen these things in person and at 6" away, they look like the real thing!

 

[jetsam]

See the last post...they are defined under EPA law.

That's also a very different definition of the word "fireplace". I've heard a couple pros here describe a fireplace as anything that is built in (which covers ornamental units as well as heaters), and a stove/insert as anything that slides out (which also covers ornamental units and heaters). They are defining a fireplace as an ornamental unit.

It's everywhere though. Ask ten people, even people in the trade, what a "french door" is, and you'll get nine answers.

 

[BKVP]

Indeed. There are many terms used and they can be confusing. Just think of venting alone:

Double wall chimney
Triple wall chimney
Air cooled chimney
Insulated chimney
the list just goes on. We often have to explain to consumers the difference between double wall, a term reserved for black, interior pipe and the "double wall Metalbestos" they have in their application. It is this confusion that is driving industry to do away from the term Zero Clearance as their is no such product. They all have stand offs and clearances! Hard to change established terms....even when they are wrong.

 

[begreen]

Hard to change established terms....even when they are wrong.

It's why we have the QWERTY keyboard.

 

[webby3650]

I don’t feel like most people actually think a ZC Fireplace is actually zero clearance really. No one seems to be shocked when you tell them it’s got to be 1/2” from the wall... just like when you tell someone that a dodge isn't really designed to be used as a truck. It’s techinally a truck, but can’t be expected to be used as such without consequences.