Back Puffing

[Woody Stover]

Yeah, but I think this is the difference between being right on the recommended minimum vs. not.

I didn't see the recommended height in the manual....

 

[AppalachianStan]

Just got me one of those moisture meter from Lowe's. My wood need more time to dry it is at 20.9%. Got some Eco Blocks from Tractor Supply.
1. How many do you have to put in to the stove to get good heart from them?
2. On a hot bed of coals it took some time to get cat probes up to 700*?

 

[Sprinter]

Just got me one of those moisture meter from Lowe's. My wood need more time to dry it is at 20.9%

Your meter has a resolution of .1? The actual accuracy of these kinds of meters is only 1 or 2% in real life use, which is close enough for fire wood use. I'm very happy with 21. You should only really need to supplement if it's closer to 25%, but it's not an exact science.

 

[AppalachianStan]

This wood stove is really bugging me. The cat probe is at 600* been burning for 3 hours now with the prime air open all the way bypass closed and it is 32* outside. I hope the by putting more chimney I get more draft.

 

[AppalachianStan]

Will it is cold in my home this morning 50* inside. Burning eco blocks would think the stove would get hot but it did not. I think the stove cats are to small and the bad air flow of the stove just want let it get up to temp. It is 23* outside the stove should draft will with 15' of chimney. I need a new wood stove anything that would work. I see this one.http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/sto...m-wood-stove-with-blower-medium-epa-certified I only have 1500sq feet to heart so it should work. If I can find a good one on CL for $300.00 would be nice.

 

[raybonz]

Will it is cold in my home this morning 50* inside. Burning eco blocks would think the stove would get hot but it did not. I think the stove cats are to small and the bad air flow of the stove just want let it get up to temp. It is 23* outside the stove should draft will with 15' of chimney. I need a new wood stove anything that would work. I see this one.http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/sto...m-wood-stove-with-blower-medium-epa-certified I only have 1500sq feet to heart so it should work. If I can find a good one on CL for $300.00 would be nice.

https://www.usstove.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=309&product_id=502

That's a great deal on that stove Stan as it lists at $1121.25! For that price I'd go new and get the warranty.

Ray

 

[Ashful]

I can understand your frustration, but... Appalachian to US stove? Toyota to Yugo? Seems like an enormous step backwards. Have you called Appalachian tech support, and explained your situation? That would be my first step.

 

[AppalachianStan]

Have you called Appalachian tech support

Yes. The stove is to old and they have gone though so many owners. its like there is no record of the stove. I can take it to them to have them rework the stove but the stove is not wrath it.
I am thinking of taking off the metal plate in front of the cats to see if that helps and taking out one side glass and making some type of slider with and opening on some steel to get more air in the stove

 

[Grisu]

More air in the stove than you are already doing? I think you need less not more. Looking at how you burn your stove with the air usually fully open your heat goes up the flue.

When you checked your wood for moisture did you resplit several large pieces and test the center of the fresh surface; preferably along the grain?

 

[rideau]

So here is a wild question. IS there any chance you have the bypass and air control confused? I never heard of opening a bypass 1/8...and with the air open all the way you should be getting a really hot, really fast burn with all the heat going up the chimney and NO backpuffs...more apt to have run away fires. The burn you are getting sounds ore like what one would get with the air properly (for a cat stove) closed or almost closed. If you have the confused the controls and have the air closed all the way, then what you are describing could very easily happen...a cat burn that gives you backpuffing at certain stages of the burn. If you have confused the controls, then it sounds like you are burning with the bypass (NOT AIR CONTROL) closed (where you are calling the air control all the way open) and the air control (which you are calling the bypass) closed as well. Is this possible? If so, then try burning with the air control just slightly open (1/8).

 

[Grisu]

I just took a look at the manual: https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/appalachian_52-bay_manual_08-pdf.68225/
From that it looks like the primary air control is built into the door but your unit looks quite different. I see the damper control for the catalyst but nothing else. Where is your primary air control? Do you have a start-up air control as described in the manual? Was that door ever replaced with a custom-made one?

 

[Woody Stover]

"Burn natural wood only. Do not
burn trash, garbage, artificial or
paper logs,"

The Eco-logs are probably clean, but I would find out for sure that they contain no chemicals which could harm your combustor.

I hope the by putting more chimney I get more draft.

I was gonna say maybe the wood's too wet, but if the Eco-logs won't burn hot either, we are back to the draft issue (I'm pretty sure you know that the bypass is the rod with the spring handle above the door. Is the air bottom-center, to the left of the ash pan?) I see that the newer App 52 calls for 6" or 8" chimney. I'm thinking that 6" would give you more draft, so maybe 8" is marginal. Since you already have 8", adding height would be the way to go.

The stove is to old and they have gone though so many owners. its like there is no record of the stove....
I am thinking of taking off the metal plate in front of the cats to see if that helps and taking out one side glass and making some type of slider with and opening on some steel to get more air in the stove

It's possible that the old stove is just never going to work very well, but I'm thinking it could (if it's not damaged in some way.) No way I would tamper with the stove like that....sounds potentially dangerous.
I'm so invested in this story now, that I want to find out what the answer really is. Anybody can go get another stove....
If you do go that route, other that CL, I like BB's idea of contacting real estate agents, who may have stoves they want to get out of a house quick. You might get a fine stove for cheap that way. I've seen the Country Hearth at TSC and it doesn't look too bad. Just your basic stove. That's pretty much the regular price on 'em. I think they had the bigger one on sale for $649 here last spring. Hardly any modern stoves turn up here on CL, but several that have are the cheaper stoves from the farm stores, box stores, etc. They sell a lot of them. A tube stove would be a little more forgiving with wood that isn't quite dry....

 

[AppalachianStan]

As you all see this is my prime air intake. The slider at the top of stove is the by pass

 

[AppalachianStan]

Do you have a start-up air control as described in the manua

No just the door.

 

[mellow]

I am waiting for Stan to install the additional pipe to his chimney before diagnosing anymore issues.

 

[AppalachianStan]

I am waiting for Stan to install the additional pipe to his chimney before diagnosing anymore issues.

Hopefully it will be here soon.

When you checked your wood for moisture did you resplit several large pieces and test the center of the fresh surface; preferably along the grain?

Yes I did.

 

[mellow]

I just wanted to do a brief summary of Stan's threads about this stove:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/i-made-things-a-lot-worse.77856/ <--- 8 pages long!
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/has-any-seen-these-before.78711/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/just-a-few-questions.79223/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/glass-gets-black.79451/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/would-the-stove-over-fire.79471/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cleaned-out-my-chimney.105881/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/tarcreoste.106465/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cats-ordered.106745/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cats-are-in.107311/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/thin-tar.107696/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/i-getting-puffs-of-smoke-out-of-the-stove.116217/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/need-your-help.117521/

 

[AppalachianStan]

I just wanted to do a brief summary of Stan's threads about this stove:

Hope that's not to many?

 

[mellow]

I think you hold the prize for most threads on a single stove.

 

[raybonz]

Hope that's not to many?

Not too many Stan this is what we're about here.. Ask away!

Ray

 

[AppalachianStan]

Thought I would give you all a update. Got my first long burn today at 9 hours. I closed down the bypass and the prime air at 600* to get this burn. But it started back puffing. I was wrong it does not start at the end of the burn. It starts at the peak of the burn all ways at 1000* are higher then it stop as the temp goes down. Still waiting on delivery on the chimney pipe.

 

[Ashful]

Then we're back to my initial statement about this problem : insufficient draft for the chosen air setting. If you have this problem, the peak of the burn cycle is when it normally appears. Solutions:

1. More draft.
2. Higher primary air setting.
3. Prevent your load from getting to a point where it's off gassing so quickly (turn down air sooner).
4. Choose wood that is not so likely to cause this problem.

 

[AppalachianStan]

2. Higher primary air setting.

at first the primary was all the way open. Now I am closing around 400* on the cat probe.

4. Choose wood that is not so likely to cause this problem.

It is oak.

3. Prevent your load from getting to a point where it's off gassing so quickly (turn down air sooner).

Now this is got me.
1. Do you get all the wood cherried like a cig. Are just some?
2. How long should it take to get up to temp?
3. What should be the ideal temp to get the stove before closing down?
4. How do I get the temps to 1000* on the cat probe with out it back puffing and keeping the temp until it peaks?
This morning at 7 the house was 50* still had coals in the firebox to start the load but it took a hour to get up to 800* on the cat probe. We left to go to our Thanksgiving dinner at 2 and the house was at 70* and stove was 800* on the cat probe.

 

[AppalachianStan]

Do all Cat stove get black and cresote in the firebox?

 

[Ashful]

at first the primary was all the way open. Now I am closing around 400* on the cat probe.

I'm not familiar with the operating instructions on the Appalachian 52, but this sounds awful early to me. Normal procedure (on reload of an already warm stove) is as follows:

1. Open bypass.
2. Load wood. A few smaller pieces (3") on bottom to get load going, larger stuff (4" - 6") on top.
3. Burn with bypass open until stovetop hits 500 - 600 F, or flue temp hits 500 - 600 F on outside of single-wall.
4. Close bypass.
5. Wait 5 - 15 minutes for cat to reach cruising temperature (~1000F).
6. Lower primary air in 3 - 4 increments (1/2, 1/4, 1/8, closed).
7. Verify cat probe temp stays well above 500 F (1000 - 1500 F is typical).

Doing this, I typically have stove-top temps 350 - 400 F, and cat probe temps of 1500 F for the first several hours of the burn.

If you're starting from a cold stove, precede the above instructions with:

1. Kindle and light.
2. Add a few 2" - 3" splits, let them get going.
3. Add a few 3" - 4" splits, let them get going good.
4. When stove-top or outside of single-wall reach 500 - 600 F, close bypass damper.
5. Burn this load with air control kept full open, or 1/2 open. Stove will not overheat due to small load of wood. Your goal here is getting the chimney and stove pre-heated.
6. When this small load reaches coaling stage, proceed with the reloading instructions above.

It is oak.

Very tough to get a good fire going with all oak in the firebox. If you said it, I missed it, but have you split a piece and checked moisture content on a freshly-exposed interior face? The overwhelming majority of all cat stove troubles come from insufficiently dry wood.

Now this is got me.
1. Do you get all the wood cherried like a cig. Are just some?
2. How long should it take to get up to temp?
3. What should be the ideal temp to get the stove before closing down?
4. How do I get the temps to 1000* on the cat probe with out it back puffing and keeping the temp until it peaks?

Some of these questions I just answered above, but I do try to get all of the wood charred over in bypass, before closing the damper. This sometimes means closing down on primary air while still in bypass mode, to allow the wood to char longer, without overheating the flue. This would be the case when burning lots of oak, or other insufficiently dry wood.

In terms of getting cat temp up without backpuffing, I suspect you're having the same exact trouble I had last year. Wood is too wet, and so things don't really take off the way you want, early in the burn. At some point an hour in, the wood finally dries out, and with a hot bed of coals now established, things take off like a bat out of hell. I remember many late nights, wanting to go to bed, while sitting up frustrated with a backpuffing stove. You will actually find several threads of me complaining about this the last two years, but this year my troubles seem to have disappeared. I think the only thing I've really changed is the quality of my wood.

This morning at 7 the house was 50* still had coals in the firebox to start the load but it took a hour to get up to 800* on the cat probe. We left to go to our Thanksgiving dinner at 2 and the house was at 70* and stove was 800* on the cat probe.

An hour from a cold stove, or an hour from a reload? If an hour from cold, not entirely abnormal. If an hour from a reload, you've got wet wood.