Back Plate yes or no, need your advice

[Fsappo]

No need to buy all new just find some one with an ovalizer

2nd. Ovalize and insulate. I'll bet BGs pension that you don't have the 2" clearance. I just went thru researching this with some help here. Also, tile removing can be insanely easy or a terrible job. It all depends on how tight to the blocks the tile is. I have literally removed 20' of tile in an hour or so and I have spent hours trying to get the first tile out.

There is a thing called a tile smasher, or I call it that, it hooks to a drill. If you lower it down and spin it slow and start hearing a hollow sound from the tile when they are hit, your probably in good shape. If it sounds like a dull thud, you may be in trouble.

Crap, even without an ovalizer, you can, with some patience and a 2x8 ovalize that liner yourself.

 

[bholler]

Serious consideration needs to be given before you go having somebody spend $1,200 knocking the tiles out of the chimney of a fireplace they like just fine as is and you don't own the house. As well as the impact if they later want to sell the house with a now non-workable fireplace.

I agree it is not always the right option but many times it is and $1200 is an awful lot for break out as well.

 

[bholler]

Also, tile removing can be insanely easy or a terrible job. It all depends on how tight to the blocks the tile is. I have literally removed 20' of tile in an hour or so and I have spent hours trying to get the first tile out.

Yeah most of the time it is an hour or 2 but there are other times it is all day or more sometimes with cutting holes in the chimney ect

 

[Squeaky_6]

Broke down and hired a pro to come out and look at it...based on what he says and what you guys think, going to formulate a plan of attack from there. Thank You all!

 

[Fsappo]

I wouldn't just get a labor quote on tile removal. The more "stuff" you have a pro do, better deal usually. Did you see if this guy is CSIA or whatever the chimney sweep institute is called, certified?

Ask him how much to remove tile and drop the liner. Shouldn't be more than $600-800 labor.

 

[Fsappo]

Yeah most of the time it is an hour or 2 but there are other times it is all day or more sometimes with cutting holes in the chimney ect

Do you actually go thru with those terrible removals or drop back and punt, looking for another option?

 

[bholler]

Do you actually go thru with those terrible removals or drop back and punt, looking for another option?

Many times once we start it we have to finish but occasionally we will change strategy

 

[Squeaky_6]

I went up in the attic today and the chimney doesn't run thru the house, only exposed thru the garage as you can see in attached pictures.

 

[bholler]

I see lots of wood in contact with the masonry it need insulated.

 

[begreen]

2nd. Ovalize and insulate. I'll bet BGs pension that you don't have the 2" clearance.

Ha, I only wish I had a pension.

 

[Fsappo]

Yeah, even if it doesn't make sense with that huge mass of masonry, you need to insulate the liner.

 

[bholler]

Yeah, even if it doesn't make sense with that huge mass of masonry, you need to insulate the liner.

I agree totally that there should be a thickness of masonry that it would be acceptable to not insulate but there is not so by code it need insulated. And even if there was a minimum thickness requirement i don't know how you would ever be able to confirm you had that the whole way unless you saw it being built

 

[Fsappo]

Right, I understand heat transfer thru solid objects, etc. It would take very little testing to determine how much masonry was safe. Could probably drill to test on site.

 

[bholler]

Could probably drill to test on site.

that could work didn't think of that but it doesn't matter much because the code is the code. And regardless there is still the added performance factor so i still think it is always a good idea to insulate

 

[begreen]

Code is important and a good safety guideline, but it's not gospel, nor sometimes the only practical option.

 

[bholler]

Code is important and a good safety guideline, but it's not gospel, nor sometimes the only practical option.

When it is my ass on the line if something goes wrong doing it by the book is the only way even if i think it is unnecessary. There are some instances where you can work around the code and technically still comply but i rarely push it to far. To me it just is not worth the risk either to our company or my customer..

 

[begreen]

Code is good, but sometimes it's dated. For example, there is little risk to achieving a clearance reduction of less than 12" using an NFPA 211 wall shield with a modern stove, but the code wasn't written for this scenario, just for non-UL tested stoves. A proper ventilated wall shield is incredibly effective at heat reduction behind it . Some stove companies recognize this and make an exception in their manuals, but several don't. I'd like to see code updated for this scenario. It also needs to stop talking about asbestos millboard. One would be at greater risk by following the letter of the code than ignoring this anachronism. And then there is the code that is simply open to interpretation...

 

[bholler]

Code is good, but sometimes it's dated. For example, there is little risk to achieving a clearance reduction of less than 12" using an NFPA 211 wall shield with a modern stove, but the code wasn't written for this scenario, just for non-UL tested stoves. A proper ventilated wall shield is incredibly effective at heat reduction behind it . Some stove companies recognize this and make an exception in their manuals, but several don't. I'd like to see code updated for this scenario. It also needs to stop talking about asbestos millboard. One would be at greater risk by following the letter of the code than ignoring this anachronism. And then there is the code that is simply open to interpretation...

I totally agree with those points but as a pro i need to follow the codes whether i agree with them or not. And yes there are lots of things that i feel should be rewritten but i am not in a position to do that so i have to follow the rules as they are set. But no i will not use asbestos mill board and i cant believe they have not changed that yet

 

[begreen]

Never discussed the fine points of code with an inspector and got an approved exception? I know I have.

 

[bholler]

Never discussed the fine points of code with an inspector and got an approved exception? I know I have.

yes i have but not with regards to chimneys that was for general construction. The problem with that is at least in pa the inspector has no liability so it doesn't matter if something goes wrong the liability would fall on me anyway but i don't know how it is done elsewhere. The other thing is in our area permits are not required for most installs so it is rare that we need inspections done. We could do what ever we wanted and no one would know. That is unless something went wrong and a fire or insurance investigator came in then we would be facing a lawsuit if it was not done to code.

 

[begreen]

Understandable, I had similar concerns when I was building boats and why I had liability insurance. But sometimes one needs to use common sense and make the best judgement call.

 

[bholler]

In my opinion common sense dictates following code when ever it is at all possible.

 

[Squeaky_6]

going to insulate it.I think if anything it will help with draw. I can't say thank you enough!

 

[begreen]

It will will help the draft and should help keep the flue cleaner by keeping the flue warmer.

 

[Squeaky_6]

Just an update but I have been defeated Sad to say first project I had to punt on! With connections from oval to round I just could not get the clearance to get it attached. I am going to try and have a shop make a new connector for the stove in round so I can gain some room. I was using a Vermont castings piece and it is just way to tall! I am so mad right now!!