Autonom Robust Gasification wood Boiler support group

[hyfire]

There is a new facebook group up for anyone interested to learn about these CSA Approved boilers available across Canada. I am not sure on the UL listing for USA use. The dealer is in the group who could answer any questions about use in other countries. Feel free to join and learn about these boilers. They have been around a while and I have not seen any negative comments on them. https://www.facebook.com/groups/511442771236993

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

Autonom gasification wood boilers are not EPA certified for use in USA

 

[hyfire]

Autonom gasification wood boilers are not EPA certified for use in USA

I looked on the epa site you are correct, I wonder why not?

 

[salecker]

I looked on the epa site you are correct, I wonder why not?

Testing requirements
I talked to a guy at Econoburn a few years ago during covid and they could not meet the requirements at the time because of covid so their new models were not EPA certified

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

I looked on the epa site you are correct, I wonder why not?

Only 2 possible reasons:
- they don't want to spend the money (lack of enough sales to offset this high cost)
or
- they know their wood boiler will not pass this EPA emissions testing

 

[hyfire]

Where can i find the epa emission limits?

 

[hyfire]

I found the epa for wood boilers limits. Step 2 requirements .1 lb per million btu output 2020 rule. That works out to 4.5 grams per 100 k btu. The autonom boilers 200 k btu model produce 4.5 gramss at 200 k btu. So it beats all epa limits .

 

[salecker]

I found the epa for wood boilers limits. Step 2 requirements .1 lb per million btu output 2020 rule. That works out to 4.5 grams per 100 k btu. The autonom boilers 200 k btu model produce 4.5 gramss at 200 k btu. So it beats all epa limits .

Means nothing if they don't have the EPA testing completed to EPA's specifications

 

[hyfire]

Means nothing if they don't have the EPA testing completed to EPA's specifications

That is true, but I just wanted to show the actual specs and limits still.

 

[stoveliker]

If it's not tested by a certified third party testing lab according to the EPA procedures there are no actual data that show it meets it...?

 

[brenndatomu]

Yup, any data they have to publish would have been from optimal conditions, whereas EPA testing requires limits under 4 stages of burn...much harder to meet.

 

[hyfire]

If it passes in Europe I'm sure the limits are tighter than the EPA limits.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

If it passes in Europe I'm sure the limits are tighter than the EPA limits.

Absolutely wrong!

European wood burning boilers are designed for a minimum burn @ 30% of max heat output.
EPA requires a15% (or below) of max heat output burn rate for stage1.
Much more difficult to pass.

Also, EPA is a federal agency, while European testing is done by for profit 3rd party testing companies, with almost no oversight.
Maybe a possible explanation why there was EPA versus Volkswagen Diesel gate 10 years or so ago.

I'm pretty sure the market share of Autonom wood boiler sales in Germany, Austria, Switzerland and all the Scandinavian countries is probably non-existing, because these implemented additional requirements on top of EN303.5 certification.

Where is this Autonom wood boiler manufactured anyways?
Hopefully not in Russia.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

If it passes in Europe I'm sure the limits are tighter than the EPA limits.

Hyfire, are you affiliated with Autonom?

If yes, you should disclose this to the forum members.

 

[stoveliker]

Also, EPA is a federal agency, while European testing is done by for profit 3rd party testing companies, with almost no oversight.

It was my understanding that the EPA sets requirements but does not test either. Instead that is also done by third party for profits here in the US? Those do have to be accredited by the EPA.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

It was my understanding that the EPA sets requirements but does not test either. Instead that is also done by third party for profits here in the US? Those do have to be accredited by the EPA.

That is correct.
But EPA is fully involved, from start to finish.

Also, EPA tests each and every model.
This is not the case in Europe with the EN303.5

That is why it is nearly impossible to compete with non-EPA certified wood boilers or pellet boilers (MBTek) sold in the USA.

 

[brenndatomu]

Absolutely wrong!

European wood burning boilers are designed for a minimum burn @ 30% of max heat output.
EPA requires a15% (or below) of max heat output burn rate for stage1.
Much more difficult to pass.

Also, EPA is a federal agency, while European testing is done by for profit 3rd party testing companies, with almost no oversight.
Maybe a possible explanation why there was EPA versus Volkswagen Diesel gate 10 years or so ago.

I'm pretty sure the market share of Autonom wood boiler sales in Germany, Austria, Switzerland and all the Scandinavian countries is probably non-existing, because these implemented additional requirements on top of EN303.5 certification.

Where is this Autonom wood boiler manufactured anyways?
Hopefully not in Russia.

Bingo!

 

[hyfire]

Hyfire, are you affiliated with Autonom?

If yes, you should disclose this to the forum members.

No I am not I'm just looking at all the documentation, and my friend has one that is all, and it seems to work well. I am thinking of purchasing one.

 

[hyfire]

Absolutely wrong!

European wood burning boilers are designed for a minimum burn @ 30% of max heat output.
EPA requires a15% (or below) of max heat output burn rate for stage1.
Much more difficult to pass.

Also, EPA is a federal agency, while European testing is done by for profit 3rd party testing companies, with almost no oversight.
Maybe a possible explanation why there was EPA versus Volkswagen Diesel gate 10 years or so ago.

I'm pretty sure the market share of Autonom wood boiler sales in Germany, Austria, Switzerland and all the Scandinavian countries is probably non-existing, because these implemented additional requirements on top of EN303.5 certification.

Where is this Autonom wood boiler manufactured anyways?
Hopefully not in Russia.

No they are not made in Russia, Turkish though, and they are made buy a company Arikazan, they have been around for 60 years. https://www.arikazan.com.tr/en/

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

No I am not I'm just looking at all the documentation, and my friend has one that is all, and it seems to work well. I am thinking of purchasing one.

I know the Canadian importer, but we never talked about this wood boiler.
If you want, I can introduce you; PM me.

For what concerns this wood boiler:
I visited the manufacturers website.
They exhibited at the Verona Progetto Fuoco show in Italy.
This show has everything from dirt cheap to well trusted brands.
Also so activities in Brazil.
This tells me that it is a "cheap" product for entry level markets.

I can't give you any particular advice, besides this:
Just make sure it is CSA certified and it can pass the WETT inspection, and of course spare parts availability over the next 10 to 20 years.

 

[hyfire]

It is CSA approved , that I do know. There are not other many options on the market in the same price range for Canadian sales. Froling and Hargassner are double the price, some even triple of these units, i can;t justify the cost.

 

[salecker]

Sometimes the higher upfront cost is the most cost effective option.
Might not be the cheapest at first, but after 20 years it turns out to be the cheapest

 

[brenndatomu]

There is a frustration cost to living with inferior equipment too...

 

[sloeffle]

There is a frustration cost to living with inferior equipment too...

Couldn't agree with you more. Going from a somewhat manually controlled Caddy to a lambda boiler is like night and day.