Anyway to drop this and survive intact?
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I would just hook to the bottom of it and pull it. Depending upon what you have it would probably take less power to hook to the top and pull it sideways
I cut trees like that all the time. Start at the bottom end of it, first cut from the top about 2/3 of the way thru and then finish with an undercut and the tree bumps down the length of the round you just cut, gets easier as you go along the log.
Now, when it's a widowmaker that's nearly vertical is when I hook a chain to the bottom and pull with the tractor.
Now, when it's a widowmaker that's nearly vertical is when I hook a chain to the bottom and pull with the tractor.
If you have your doubts just say "NO". Remember no tree is worth getting hurt for or DEAD. Lisen to your Brain saying "I should leave this one alone".
A guy I work with ,works for a tree service,he concurs with you in your method,but he also agrees with Mutineer he's going to look at it saturday,and said don't worry it will come down. THX,you guys are very knowledgeable.I'm only good at cutting, downed trees,splitting and stacking,such is life.
I also like the idea of eating it up from the top down as best you can. I also might in this case hook on the stump and drag it off the lean, depending on what you have available. That's a lot of weight either way so be careful and think each cut out before you make it. If it takes a week to chop down remember it ain't going anywhere.
Prof
Minister of Fire
Yep--called fence posting. Stay alert--mostly keep your feet out of the way and you'll be fine.
You guys have zero imagination. I'd strap a big jug of Tannerite to the middle of it, back away about a hundred yards and blast the center out of it.
I got chainsaw certified by the National Park Service several years ago, the training was specific for the types of trees encountered maintaining the Appalachian trail. The AT is a narrow path through all types of woods and its rare to have tree fall down flat on the ground. Most are leaners of some sort. and frequently its leaners on top of leaners. There is 2 long days to get the initial certification and one day every 2 years to keep it. I let my certificate run out as my "job" is boundary line maintenance which does not require sawing, nevertheless it was great way to safely run a saw.
Hard to compress the training into a couple of paragraphs but one of the biggies is the initial assessment of where the stored energy is in the tree. In the case of this leaner its pretty obvious that the stored energy is downwards and also pushing the long in compression towards the root ball. One of the basics of the chainsaw course is to control the cut and release stored energy slowly. One common approach would be as suggested by cutting upwards in a straight cut from the bottom perpendicular to the trunk. The problem with that is there is not a lot of control, optimistically the cut causes the tree to hinge and the butt of the tree to slowly drop down straight to the ground missing your feet. The reality is as you are cutting upwards there is lot of force pushing down through the trunk towards the root ball in the tree and when the tree finally lets go its usually a sudden drop and it may not be straight down, it could jump towards you or away from you quite violently. In some cases with a higher angle of lean, the saw will pinch and on occasion wth high angle leaners the saw will cut all the way through but the force on the tree will keep the tree from dropping.
The key to the following cuts I am going to describe is practice and patience. Before you start these cuts make sure your saw is sharp, you want to be able to control the saw and the only way to do that is with sharp saw that you dont need to lean into.
So what you need is a way of controlling the cut so there is a big hinge to guide the log slowly to land where you want it. The cut we were taught to use is a "Z" cut on large diameter trees. Forgive the crude sketch but the concept is cut the top cut half way through the log at a 45 degree angle to the trunk all the way to the center of the trunk (the dotted line). You will need a plastic wedge and you need to follow the saw with a wedge so the top cut does not close up on the saw and bind it. Once the top cut is done, then the bottom cut is started. As you cut, the "hinge" of wood at the center of the tree is quite wide and controls the energy in the tree . Rarely will you need to go all the way to the dotted line. The tree will slowly start bending at the cut towards the ground perpendicular to the hinge. Just step back and wait and if you need to go back and cut a bit more until it finally lets go.
I find it works well but usually skip it on small diameter stuff as smaller diameter trees are more flexible and the saw can pinch during the initial top cut. If its small stuff with a pronounced bend in it, I make a series of shallow cuts from underneath along a 4 foot length of the trunk. Each cut is only 1/2' at a time and then move on to the next point. What will happen is the curve will slowly increase towards the ground. Just keep nibbling a little bit at time. Cut too deep and it will release too quickly.
The same nibble approach works if you have a bent over tree trapped by another tree. Instead to cutting it through and having it whip back uncontrolled, I just flip the sketch over and slowly nibble about a 4 foot length on the top of the tree. The tree will start to curve upwards slowly and I keep nibbling until the tension is out of the tree or the tree bends upwards sharply at the top of a nibble.
Obviously a lot easier to learn with a skilled instructor looking over your shoulder.
Hard to compress the training into a couple of paragraphs but one of the biggies is the initial assessment of where the stored energy is in the tree. In the case of this leaner its pretty obvious that the stored energy is downwards and also pushing the long in compression towards the root ball. One of the basics of the chainsaw course is to control the cut and release stored energy slowly. One common approach would be as suggested by cutting upwards in a straight cut from the bottom perpendicular to the trunk. The problem with that is there is not a lot of control, optimistically the cut causes the tree to hinge and the butt of the tree to slowly drop down straight to the ground missing your feet. The reality is as you are cutting upwards there is lot of force pushing down through the trunk towards the root ball in the tree and when the tree finally lets go its usually a sudden drop and it may not be straight down, it could jump towards you or away from you quite violently. In some cases with a higher angle of lean, the saw will pinch and on occasion wth high angle leaners the saw will cut all the way through but the force on the tree will keep the tree from dropping.
The key to the following cuts I am going to describe is practice and patience. Before you start these cuts make sure your saw is sharp, you want to be able to control the saw and the only way to do that is with sharp saw that you dont need to lean into.
So what you need is a way of controlling the cut so there is a big hinge to guide the log slowly to land where you want it. The cut we were taught to use is a "Z" cut on large diameter trees. Forgive the crude sketch but the concept is cut the top cut half way through the log at a 45 degree angle to the trunk all the way to the center of the trunk (the dotted line). You will need a plastic wedge and you need to follow the saw with a wedge so the top cut does not close up on the saw and bind it. Once the top cut is done, then the bottom cut is started. As you cut, the "hinge" of wood at the center of the tree is quite wide and controls the energy in the tree . Rarely will you need to go all the way to the dotted line. The tree will slowly start bending at the cut towards the ground perpendicular to the hinge. Just step back and wait and if you need to go back and cut a bit more until it finally lets go.
I find it works well but usually skip it on small diameter stuff as smaller diameter trees are more flexible and the saw can pinch during the initial top cut. If its small stuff with a pronounced bend in it, I make a series of shallow cuts from underneath along a 4 foot length of the trunk. Each cut is only 1/2' at a time and then move on to the next point. What will happen is the curve will slowly increase towards the ground. Just keep nibbling a little bit at time. Cut too deep and it will release too quickly.
The same nibble approach works if you have a bent over tree trapped by another tree. Instead to cutting it through and having it whip back uncontrolled, I just flip the sketch over and slowly nibble about a 4 foot length on the top of the tree. The tree will start to curve upwards slowly and I keep nibbling until the tension is out of the tree or the tree bends upwards sharply at the top of a nibble.
Obviously a lot easier to learn with a skilled instructor looking over your shoulder.
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Nice advice,and THX so much for your response,I will hopefully get it done this weekend,and post a few pics,hopefully.
maple1
Minister of Fire
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
You could try cutting it free of anything holding it to the ground and pull the bottom with your truck/atv/tractor/winch/capstan/whatever you have.
I've done this before, but don't like it. That stem falls really fast once you get through the cut.
EODMSgt
Feeling the Heat
I've taken down several already this year like this using the method @Mutineer describes. Just use caution and remember Murphy's Law. Look at the other trees involved to determine if they will influence which way the trunk will shift once you start cutting and base which side you will stand on off that (use the other trees to your advantage). Once the root ball has been cut away it usually gets easier. I've used a come-a-long and straps before to secure the trunk while cutting away the root ball (just to control which way the tension will release).
It sounds like you have an experienced friend who is willing to come over and show you a safe way to do it. There are lots of ways to get the wood on the ground, the important part is not getting hurt. After doing 10 dangerous trees, you will start to get overconfident; be careful then!
Simonkenton
Minister of Fire
I cut trees like that all the time. Go to where the tree is about 5 feet above the ground. Make a V cut in the top, about 5 inches deep.
Then saw up from the bottom. Be prepared to jump out of the way. With the V cut the trunk will snap right in two.
Then repeat, until you get to the top.
Then saw up from the bottom. Be prepared to jump out of the way. With the V cut the trunk will snap right in two.
Then repeat, until you get to the top.
Montanalocal
Minister of Fire
Alternatively, cut from the top down right straight through to the bottom. Put a wedge or two in the top of the cut when you get about half way through to prevent pinching. The saw will cut right out the bottom and, as you say, the trunk will fall down. I think this is much safer and more controllable than cutting up. When the saw breaks through cutting upward from the bottom, the momentum and pressure on the saw is still upward, and you have to reverse this overhead as you are getting out of the way.
When you are cutting downward, the momentum and pressure on the saw is downward, and is much more controllable as you get out of the way. Been doing it this way for years, and would never cut upward under most circumstances. Works really good on bucking when both ends of the log are supported and the log is in compression.
When you are cutting downward, the momentum and pressure on the saw is downward, and is much more controllable as you get out of the way. Been doing it this way for years, and would never cut upward under most circumstances. Works really good on bucking when both ends of the log are supported and the log is in compression.
Simonkenton
Minister of Fire
I would cut it if I couldn't pull it at all. But I find it much safer to just pull down stuff like that.
I'm picturing this and it seems like something I can handle,maybe,lots of great advice here,still reading each suggestion before D-day ,Weds day off.THX all great responses.
I dont think that would be good thing to do, the intent of the top cut is to control the compression load pushing along the length of the trunk towards the root ball. Without it if that load is not directly lined up with the trunk it might want to kick sidewards. In the times I have done it the trunk slowly drops towards the ground. The NPS course also was also big on the bore cut method for dropping standing trees, in both cases the goal is a slow controlled fall.
maple1
Minister of Fire
You can also alter things a bit if needed, for the bottom of the tree to work itself sideways a little with each round you cut off. By not cutting straight down, rather towards the side a little. If you are looking at the tree saying if I could pull the bottom of it this way some it would fall right down - then do your cuts so it will do that. Looks in pics like there might be a weak branch up there in the crotch holding it up, So if you could work the bottom that way it might take the load off the stronger crotch branch & put it on the weaker one and it might let go & come down.
But you need to be careful of course, as with all things done with this stuff - if you go sideways too much and you're standing in the wrong place it could kick out towards you when it lets go. Dance time then for sure.
Also hard to tell scale of pics in this case and just how big this thing is.
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