Anyone has the Jotul F205? How does is compare to the F100 ECO.2 ?

[Jotul-House]

Hello - I am looking for a stove for our living room to use primarily in the weekends and during the very cold days or start and end of heating season. The living room is 20 m2 and it opens into a corridor (has no door) with another room, bathroom, and staircase to the upper floor with 2 bed rooms. Total area of the 2 floors would be about 100 m2.

Is the F205 too big for this setup? Would the F100 be better? I don't understand why is the F200 30% more expensive when it is only slightly more powerfull 5kW (F205) vs 4.9kW (F100).

F205: https://www.jotul.co.uk/products/wood/wood-burning-stoves/jotul-f-205

F100: https://www.jotul.co.uk/products/wood/wood-burning-stoves/jotul-f-100-eco2-ll-se

Any insight or recommendation would be appreciated. Thank you!

 

[Trevor Tahclep]

Jotul-House while most of the planet is using meters square (m2) as the standard area measurement system this is not the case in the USA which is still using the antiquated system, therefore 100m2 = 1076 sq. ft.

Many factors need to be considered in your decision, such as building construction and its heat loss, insulation level, windows etc., etc., your average temperature during your heating season, how many of your coldest days do you get and will your chosen stove be able to sufficiently heat your house during that coldest period, type of wood you have locally and the millions of BTU's this wood will supply you ( different wood species can supply anywhere from 17 million btu's to 30 million btu's per North American cord . You also have stoves in Europe that we do not have here and some that have specifications which are different for our market versus the European market.
Here in Canada anyways with our cold winters most purchasers will decrease the manufacturers suggested heating surface by 25% approximately, therefore a stove rated by the manufacturer to heat 100m2 comfortably - 25% would be considered to heat 75m2 / 800 sq. ft. of true useful heating capacity.

Jotul Canada https://www.jotul.ca/products/wood

 

[Todd]

Neither one of those stoves are available over here but the F100 used to be and it was a pretty tiny firebox and more of a one room heater. I really don’t understand how they come up with or what they mean by the nominal 5kw output. That doesn’t seem like a very high BTU output of around 17,000?

Either stove may be fine if your just looking for an occasional fire and a little extra heat but if you were looking at using a stove as your primary heat source I’d be looking bigger like the F400.

 

[Jotul-House]

Jotul-House while most of the planet is using meters square (m2) as the standard area measurement system this is not the case in the USA which is still using the antiquated system, therefore 100m2 = 1076 sq. ft.

Many factors need to be considered in your decision, such as building construction and its heat loss, insulation level, windows etc., etc., your average temperature during your heating season, how many of your coldest days do you get and will your chosen stove be able to sufficiently heat your house during that coldest period, type of wood you have locally and the millions of BTU's this wood will supply you ( different wood species can supply anywhere from 17 million btu's to 30 million btu's per North American cord . You also have stoves in Europe that we do not have here and some that have specifications which are different for our market versus the European market.
Here in Canada anyways with our cold winters most purchasers will decrease the manufacturers suggested heating surface by 25% approximately, therefore a stove rated by the manufacturer to heat 100m2 comfortably - 25% would be considered to heat 75m2 / 800 sq. ft. of true useful heating capacity.

Jotul Canada https://www.jotul.ca/products/wood

Thank you Trevor Tahclep for your reply.

Sorry for not converting the area values into sq.ft. for the NA members.

The F100 is "rated" for up to 200 m3 =7062 cubic foot. The volume of my two floors is about 230m3 or 8100 cu.ft. Interestingly, the F205 does not have any heating volume estimatimation.

Our house is 200 years old, 60cm =24" thick walls and double glazed windows. The roof is poorly insulated. The 2 bed rooms on the second floor are always colder due to the poor roof insulation (about 100mm=4" thick insulation), but totally livable in the winter when heated with our central heating system via the radiators.

I don't really intend to heat the two foors with the stove, but I would love to make our heating bill lower while enjoying the nice stove fire in the evenings.

I am leaning towards the F205 despite the 40% bigger weight (138kg=304lbs) and 30% higher price tag and only 0.1 kW higher output. I think Jotul might have downrated it to 5kW to meet some arbitrary regulatory standard somewhere in Europe.

I also like the F205's dedicated pipe in the back for outside air intake of the F205. The F100 as I understand does not have one. Although, I have some significant chalanges to pipe outside air to the stove.

The stove will be on a wall which is not an outside wall, and due to curent regulation in Switzerland, either I have to pipe the air somehow to the stove or at least drill a 4” hole on the 24” thick wall which is perpendicular to the stove’s wall.

I am concerned that if I don’t figure out a way to pipe the outside air into the stove, the 4” hole across the room will decrease the efficency.

The F100 is cheaper, smaller, lighter and I am thinking it will not “consume” so much aire from the room to make it choke. So if it would work for my use-case, I would prefer it, but the F205 gives me more confidence. Besides the price of the F205, oen of my concern is that I might not be able to operate at a low burning rate and our living room will be too hot and it will take longer to take it up to normal operating temperature.

I also have no idea how much heat from the living room floor go up to the second floor to help there too. It might turn out that I will have too much heat on one floor and too litle on the second.

Sorry for the long post.
Thank you for reading it.

 

[Trevor Tahclep]

I have been to Europe and have always been impressed with all these very old buildings and the very thick stone and mortar walls still standing after 200-300-400 years, however I have also always felt they smelled a little musty and damp. Obviously have no idea what yours is like and all other factors involved in making such a decision, but with my knowledge of my market here I find 5kW or 17000 Btu's too small, my thinking is that a 24 inch thick stone wall stays cold for a long time and would require a lot of heat to warm them up. Once again do not have the knowledge required to help you with your particular location, requirements and choice.

 

[begreen]

Both are very close in size. The 205 takes a slightly longer log.

It sounds like the stove will mostly be a room heater. If the stove room gets too warm, then place a fan on low speed, on the hallway floor, blowing cooler air into the stove room. That will help cool down the room and convect the heat to the rest of the house.

 

[Jotul-House]

I have been to Europe and have always been impressed with all these very old buildings and the very thick stone and mortar walls still standing after 200-300-400 years, however I have also always felt they smelled a little musty and damp. Obviously have no idea what yours is like and all other factors involved in making such a decision, but with my knowledge of my market here I find 5kW or 17000 Btu's too small, my thinking is that a 24 inch thick stone wall stays cold for a long time and would require a lot of heat to warm them up. Once again do not have the knowledge required to help you with your particular location, requirements and choice.

The 24" stone walls are surprisingly good insulators. We have no damp issues. The nice summers in Switzerland help to dry everything out.
Based on the other replies, more stove is better than less and I could use a small fas as others recommended if our living room is starting to turn into a sauna.

Now I just need to figure out how I will pipe the outside air to the stove or choose the less complex "hole on wall" on the perpendicular wall to the stove wall. But I will make a separate post about this issue.

Thanks again to you and this amazing community for all the advice.

 

[Nordicbynature]

The F205 is a newly developed stove. The F100 is an old stove model, that has seen updates to meet the regulations.

So the F205 has a modern and simple firebox design from the beginning. If you compare the performance values, F205 is better in all, except for NOx. Note especially the particles value PM is only 14mg/Nm3 compared to 25.

The F205 has a convection plate on the rear. It will give less of the radiant heat and more convection heat, which might be on the wish list.

The F205's convection plate gives a 50mm safety distance requirement to combustables on the rear compared to 400mm for the F100.

The kW ratings are just as they say, ratings. It is a working point, that is chosen for the lab testing. The stoves can work on higher and lower output. Being the more modern development i believe, the F205 can run at lower kW and still be efficient. (But that is just a guess)

The external air intake is a topic, that is much discussed in Sweden. For a modern air tight house, it is a must. For old leaking houses, like mine, it doesn't really matter. If it is difficult to get the air intake to the stove, I would not bother.

If you leave it away, you might even be lucky and create a convection circulation, which will help to heat bigger area of the house.

I have an opening in the wall right behind the place for my stove, but I will not connect the external air intake, but will use the air from the room. It is preheated to room temperature and will not cool down the firebox / combustion process as the external air will.

I bought the F200, because of 50mm clearance requirement. And the better particle values, which might become subject to legal requirements and the slightly bigger firebox.

Unfortunately I did not have the time to install it yet.

 

[Jotul-House]

The F205 is a newly developed stove. The F100 is an old stove model, that has seen updates to meet the regulations.

So the F205 has a modern and simple firebox design from the beginning. If you compare the performance values, F205 is better in all, except for NOx. Note especially the particles value PM is only 14mg/Nm3 compared to 25.

The F205 has a convection plate on the rear. It will give less of the radiant heat and more convection heat, which might be on the wish list.

The F205's convection plate gives a 50mm safety distance requirement to combustables on the rear compared to 400mm for the F100.

The kW ratings are just as they say, ratings. It is a working point, that is chosen for the lab testing. The stoves can work on higher and lower output. Being the more modern development i believe, the F205 can run at lower kW and still be efficient. (But that is just a guess)

The external air intake is a topic, that is much discussed in Sweden. For a modern air tight house, it is a must. For old leaking houses, like mine, it doesn't really matter. If it is difficult to get the air intake to the stove, I would not bother.

If you leave it away, you might even be lucky and create a convection circulation, which will help to heat bigger area of the house.

I have an opening in the wall right behind the place for my stove, but I will not connect the external air intake, but will use the air from the room. It is preheated to room temperature and will not cool down the firebox / combustion process as the external air will.

I bought the F200, because of 50mm clearance requirement. And the better particle values, which might become subject to legal requirements and the slightly bigger firebox.

Unfortunately I did not have the time to install it yet.

Thank you for these very valuable insights. I wrongly assumed the polution numbers are similar, and I definetly missed the improved safety distance of the F205/F200. At our place, the stove will be against a stone wall which has mortar finish, so I assume is not considered flamable, but I appreciate the convection plate and the smaller safety distance.

Regarding the outside air intake (external air) topic, I have mixed feelings.

We bought the house 4 years ago and there was a big wood stove in the living room which showed signs of regular usage by the previous owner. We thought the old stove was too big and did not like it and when we renovated the house, I sold it for next to nothing just to get rid of it.

Fast forward to today, I asked two dealers for stove quotes including installation. The first dealer refused to quote stating that I need to get first an external air intake sorted out since this is a must have according to current regulation. The second dealer said that the chimney sweep might/should accept the new installation without external air intake because there was stove here before. Worst case he will drill one for EUR 800 if the sweep insists.

I would like to do it right, but it is not easy due to the wall thickness of 60 cm (24”) and the perpendicular wall where I could drill the 10cm/4” hole is 2.5m (9 ft. ) away from the stove.

Also, since the previous owner was using a large wood stove in this exact place with the same windows and roof insulation, I am thinking that it is safe to say this will work.

Of course, I would also like it to be a safe install, and from what I am reading online, the outside air requirement is to prevent the smoke coming back to a lower pressure in the room than outside, and this is a serious safety hazard. But many people are at the opinion that the outside air is a must only for new houses with excellent insulation. I would not consider our house leaky, but it is also not insulated to today’s standards. The windows are decent and double glazed, but 20 years old.

I would like to look into the potential to install a tube in the chimney for the outside air intake. The chimney currently has 2 tubes, one for the smoke exhaust and one for the kitchen extractor.

I am thinking that if there is room in the chimney for a 3rd tube and installing it will not going to cost me an arm and a leg, this might be the best solution. Safe and efficient, potentially very costly.

The other option is to just install the new stove as the 2nd dealer recommended and hope that the chimney sweep will not object to it and make me drill a hole. The hole 2.5m away does not sound efficient. The stove would have to pull cold air into and across the room to get his air needs. I will probably lose a lot of efficiency? As you said, getting the external air as close as possible would be the best, but the wife would probably not like a pipe inside the living room for the exterior air intake. Huhh

 

[Nordicbynature]

Thank you for these very valuable insights. I wrongly assumed the polution numbers are similar, and I definetly missed the improved safety distance of the F205/F200. At our place, the stove will be against a stone wall which has mortar finish, so I assume is not considered flamable, but I appreciate the convection plate and the smaller safety distance.

Regarding the outside air intake (external air) topic, I have mixed feelings.

We bought the house 4 years ago and there was a big wood stove in the living room which showed signs of regular usage by the previous owner. We thought the old stove was too big and did not like it and when we renovated the house, I sold it for next to nothing just to get rid of it.

Fast forward to today, I asked two dealers for stove quotes including installation. The first dealer refused to quote stating that I need to get first an external air intake sorted out since this is a must have according to current regulation. The second dealer said that the chimney sweep might/should accept the new installation without external air intake because there was stove here before. Worst case he will drill one for EUR 800 if the sweep insists.

I would like to do it right, but it is not easy due to the wall thickness of 60 cm (24”) and the perpendicular wall where I could drill the 10cm/4” hole is 2.5m (9 ft. ) away from the stove.

Also, since the previous owner was using a large wood stove in this exact place with the same windows and roof insulation, I am thinking that it is safe to say this will work.

Of course, I would also like it to be a safe install, and from what I am reading online, the outside air requirement is to prevent the smoke coming back to a lower pressure in the room than outside, and this is a serious safety hazard. But many people are at the opinion that the outside air is a must only for new houses with excellent insulation. I would not consider our house leaky, but it is also not insulated to today’s standards. The windows are decent and double glazed, but 20 years old.

I would like to look into the potential to install a tube in the chimney for the outside air intake. The chimney currently has 2 tubes, one for the smoke exhaust and one for the kitchen extractor.

I am thinking that if there is room in the chimney for a 3rd tube and installing it will not going to cost me an arm and a leg, this might be the best solution. Safe and efficient, potentially very costly.

The other option is to just install the new stove as the 2nd dealer recommended and hope that the chimney sweep will not object to it and make me drill a hole. The hole 2.5m away does not sound efficient. The stove would have to pull cold air into and across the room to get his air needs. I will probably lose a lot of efficiency? As you said, getting the external air as close as possible would be the best, but the wife would probably not like a pipe inside the living room for the exterior air intake. Huhh

I recommend to contact the chimney sweeper in this early planning stage.

He might be happy, if you ask him about his opinion and recommendations. It might create a good relationship and you will know, what he is picky about.

I have had really good experiences with talking with the guy who will make the technical inspection as early as possible. I have always asked him to come and have a look before I got started with a new project.