Another Vermont Castings Dauntless Problematic Stove

[stoveliker]

Any 2x4 (6, 8) would do for kindling. If you have a hatchet I'd split it along the grain. But the miter saw is fine as well.

Just don't use pressure treated wood. It makes poisonous emissions.

 

[Kevin Weis]

What is the diameter of the chimney (if stainless lined), and what is the surface area of the clay liner if not lined with a stainless liner?

Elbows and horizontal runs effectively shorten the chimmney (they decrease draft to the equivalent of a shorter straight up chimney).

If I go by the recommendations of my manufacturer (and doing that is somewhat justified as that physics is not dependent on the model stove), your effective height is 22 ft - 4 ft (b/c the elbows) - 6 ft (b/c the horizontal run) = 12 ft.
[Justification: for every 90 deg elbow, my mfg recommends to add 2 ft to the minimum height, and for every ft of horizontal run to add 2 ft as well.]

That is likely lower than what your stove recommends (most are 15 ft).

If in addition to that it's a clay liner with a rectangular cross section larger than 28 square inches (=the cross section of a 6" round liner), your draft will be further reduced because of the slower gas flow speed due to the larger volume, cooling the gases down more, decreasing the draft.

If you are also at elevation, subtract 1 ft more for each 1000 ft that is above 1000 ft above sea level.
[My mfg: add 1 ft for 1000-2000 ft above sea level, 2 ft for 2000-3000 ft etc.]

My conclusion is that you have insufficient draft.
To test that you could see if you could add a cheap duct extension on the top of your chimney outside (I'd add a minimum of 4 ft). If that resolves things, then you could see how to do that properly (ducting is of course not safe for permanent use).

@bholler will correct me if he thinks I'm wrong.

Also could use a manometer close to the stove in the stove pipe. There are some cheap accurate ones out there for about $38.

 

[Michael Todd]

Would you be willing to provide an update when your tech comes back out to inspect? I am considering a Dauntless among a few others and am following this thread. Hope they get it figured out for you.

Same here. In fact, I have money down on a dauntless.

 

[sasquatch.woodsman]

Hey folks! I had a new Vermont Castings Dauntless stove with the catalyst installed mid-October. This is my first wood stove, so at first assumed some of the issues I was having were operator error, but have gotten to the point where I basically can't use the stove anymore. The service department at the dealer I purchased from was booked out pretty far, so they won't be here until next week.

We had a chimney liner installed in our chimney, and our draft is excellent. Here are some of the problems we have experienced so far:

• Backpuffing with catalyst engaged
• Over-firing catalyst
• Smoke pouring out of the griddle when we open to reload
• Smoke pouring out of the front door when we reload
• Constant smoke smell in the house with damper closed (with and without the catalyst)
• Recently, smoke smell in the house with damper opened.
• Glass turns black almost immediately and doesn't burn away

At this point, the stove is essentially unusable. After reading all of the issues people have with the Dauntless specifically, I assume we will end up trying to get it replaced. Our chimney sweep told me that he's seen several swapped out in our area already and nothing but issues. We are burning kiln-dried wood after having an issue the first week with wood that wasn't dry enough.

Not sure what the service folks can even do to try and "fix" the brand new stove. It's just really frustrating and I've got two people in the house with asthma that have not had a good time since buying this stove.

What should I be aware of when they come to work on it? Thanks!

First, I commiserate with the issues that you're having with your Vermont Castings Dauntless wood stove. We purchased and had one professionally installed at the end of January of this year and it was problematic, but by the time I was able to get someone to come take a look at the issues, the heating season had already passed and we chalked it up to our inexperience with an EPA-rated stove. However, this season when we started it back up again in November, we were environmentally assaulted by this stove with every single issue that you mention. I was so frustrated, I wanted to pull that stove out of the wall and go throw it in the lake.

I checked everything, a fresh split log showed a moisture content of 16-18%, so it wasn't wet wood. I use a small torch to the stovepipe before starting a fire to get a good draft started before actually lighting the kindling. Even with the air-flow wide open, the diverter being open smoke would start to come in the house. Add to that, I couldn't get that fire to burn hot at all, no amount of kindling was giving me any sizable burn and as soon as I put on an average size log, it would quench the puny fire that had started.

So, we decided to shut the stove down after the house was so full of smoke that we could barely see each other across the room. It was midnight and we were going to wait and see if we could figure out if there was something with the chimney. The next day I grabbed a ladder and got up on the roof, we have a really short stack, and could see down the chimney to the clean-out door below, but there was some build-up on the walls of the chimney. I grabbed a 10' PT 2x4, and gently knock the carbon build-up off the side of the chimney and cleaned out all of the material from the clean-out door.

I went back in house, told my wife to say her prayers because this was the last time we were going to fuss with damn thing otherwise we'd be replacing it with something that worked better. I was so sick of looking up videos on YouTube and everyone talking about how this stove was a perfect stove for a 2000 sq ft house. I touched a torch to the fatwood and kindling in the stove and son-of-a-gun, that thing took off like a rocket!! I'm not even kidding, if you have a blockage or even if you have a flow restriction in your chimney, it's causing the issues that you're having. One other thing that has also helped us with our stove is to ensure that your wood is also up to room temperature. We find that now that we have a good bed of coals and that the wood is warmed up, it catches immediately after we put them in the stove.

My recommendation is to get a chimney sweep to come in and clean your chimney and check for restrictions. I am completely convinced now that this is an excellent stove and we're back in love with it now that it's working as designed to. I hope this helps.

 

[j.boyles]

Well folks, happy to report back that our issues with the Dauntless have been resolved. The store took back the Dauntless and gave us full credit for it towards a new stove. We ended up going with a Hearthstone Heritage (8024) and the difference in operating the Heritage compared to the Dauntless is unreal. Using the Dauntless was a never-ending exercise in frustration. So far, the Heritage has been so hands-off, I'm almost stressed out thinking something is wrong because I don't have to constantly tinker with it.

The other thing that is real interesting is how steady the fire is without touching the stove. We will go many hours with the flue probe temp staying put and not moving at all. Just a nice, steady output. Same with the STT.

For anyone considering a Dauntless, I would say proceed with caution. Our local store has now replaced three Dauntless models within the last year or so and I don't believe they want to sell them anymore.

Plus, the Heritage is a beautiful stove that fits our house a bit better.

 

[j.boyles]

First, I commiserate with the issues that you're having with your Vermont Castings Dauntless wood stove. We purchased and had one professionally installed at the end of January of this year and it was problematic, but by the time I was able to get someone to come take a look at the issues, the heating season had already passed and we chalked it up to our inexperience with an EPA-rated stove. However, this season when we started it back up again in November, we were environmentally assaulted by this stove with every single issue that you mention. I was so frustrated, I wanted to pull that stove out of the wall and go throw it in the lake.

I checked everything, a fresh split log showed a moisture content of 16-18%, so it wasn't wet wood. I use a small torch to the stovepipe before starting a fire to get a good draft started before actually lighting the kindling. Even with the air-flow wide open, the diverter being open smoke would start to come in the house. Add to that, I couldn't get that fire to burn hot at all, no amount of kindling was giving me any sizable burn and as soon as I put on an average size log, it would quench the puny fire that had started.

So, we decided to shut the stove down after the house was so full of smoke that we could barely see each other across the room. It was midnight and we were going to wait and see if we could figure out if there was something with the chimney. The next day I grabbed a ladder and got up on the roof, we have a really short stack, and could see down the chimney to the clean-out door below, but there was some build-up on the walls of the chimney. I grabbed a 10' PT 2x4, and gently knock the carbon build-up off the side of the chimney and cleaned out all of the material from the clean-out door.

I went back in house, told my wife to say her prayers because this was the last time we were going to fuss with damn thing otherwise we'd be replacing it with something that worked better. I was so sick of looking up videos on YouTube and everyone talking about how this stove was a perfect stove for a 2000 sq ft house. I touched a torch to the fatwood and kindling in the stove and son-of-a-gun, that thing took off like a rocket!! I'm not even kidding, if you have a blockage or even if you have a flow restriction in your chimney, it's causing the issues that you're having. One other thing that has also helped us with our stove is to ensure that your wood is also up to room temperature. We find that now that we have a good bed of coals and that the wood is warmed up, it catches immediately after we put them in the stove.

My recommendation is to get a chimney sweep to come in and clean your chimney and check for restrictions. I am completely convinced now that this is an excellent stove and we're back in love with it now that it's working as designed to. I hope this helps.

Glad you got the stove working! Our chimney liner was brand new with the stove, and I had our chimney sweep that installed it come back to check it out. Totally clear and tons of draw up the liner. As I just posted, the store took back the Dauntless and we went with a Hearthstone Heritage instead. Experience is night and day.

 

[Ant428]

Would you be willing to provide an update when your tech comes back out to inspect? I am considering a Dauntless among a few others and am following this thread. Hope they get it figured out for you.

I just got one and so far, im unhappy. Have had backpuffing and lastnight, a huge backpuff that blew the top hinge door up. If I could exchange it, I would.

 

[j.boyles]

I just got one and so far, im unhappy. Have had backpuffing and lastnight, a huge backpuff that blew the top hinge door up. If I could exchange it, I would.

I will say, that can happen to any stove depending on the conditions of many things (that you'll probably know about if you have read this thread or others in a similar situation). But, it definitely seems like the Dauntless has fatal design flaws.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I just got one and so far, im unhappy. Have had backpuffing and lastnight, a huge backpuff that blew the top hinge door up. If I could exchange it, I would.

Ive had alot of problems with the VC Dauntless, and have only had it backpuff 1.5 times. The first time I was moving the air control very quickly from high to low to high to low. When I went to high the second time, I got a ...puff...with smoke puffed out of every potential opening. And it was literally just a split second. The second .5 times was when I got the flue too hot, caught some creosote and that created some smoke penetration through the stove pipe.

I have ~16' from stove to cap.

 

[ReverendGreen]

I just got one and so far, im unhappy. Have had backpuffing and lastnight, a huge backpuff that blew the top hinge door up. If I could exchange it, I would.

I’m sorry to hear that. I ended up finding a Lopi dealer and am paying the deposit on an Evergreen next week. I’ve only heard good things about Lopi so hoping it works out. Grew up with a wood stove but haven’t used one since new EPA regs came out. I do like that the Evergreen qualifies for the 30% tax credit without having a cat.

I’m hoping to get it installed in time to do a burn or two this year, if not it will have to sit there and taunt me till next winter.

 

[SkipperH]

I’m sorry to hear that. I ended up finding a Lopi dealer and am paying the deposit on an Evergreen next week. I’ve only heard good things about Lopi so hoping it works out. Grew up with a wood stove but haven’t used one since new EPA regs came out. I do like that the Evergreen qualifies for the 30% tax credit without having a cat.

I’m hoping to get it installed in time to do a burn or two this year, if not it will have to sit there and taunt me till next winter.

I've had it with the Dauntless, it's been only two heating seasons, unless you're willing to sit in front of this stove to monitor it's every odd event then it's not the stove for you. Between it's extreme flare-ups, choking of the flames after shutting the front door, completely sooting up of the glass, bent damper rod, stuck / jammed damper, unusable top loader, unless you like a smoke filled room (yes by-pass is open), enamel chipping if you look at it the wrong way and now a cracked glass without impact or over-firing. This is the second heating season where I'm sitting here with plenty of seasoned oak using my oil furnace at $4.58 a gallon while the $3k boat anchor is sitting in the corner of the room. This unit will be replaced, buyer beware.

 

[j.boyles]

I've had it with the Dauntless, it's been only two heating seasons, unless you're willing to sit in front of this stove to monitor it's every odd event then it's not the stove for you. Between it's extreme flare-ups, choking of the flames after shutting the front door, completely sooting up of the glass, bent damper rod, stuck / jammed damper, unusable top loader, unless you like a smoke filled room (yes by-pass is open), enamel chipping if you look at it the wrong way and now a cracked glass without impact or over-firing. This is the second heating season where I'm sitting here with plenty of seasoned oak using my oil furnace at $4.58 a gallon while the $3k boat anchor is sitting in the corner of the room. This unit will be replaced, buyer beware.

I feel your pain! We don't miss the Dauntless at ALL. What you described was exactly our experience as well. It took a couple weeks of burning with our Hearthstone Heritage to get used to not having to constantly monitor/mess with the stove. It felt weird at first, but is great.

 

[cyberglyph]

We got our Dauntless Flexburn without the CAT installed. I will say one thing I spend way too much time trying to keep the fire going, it seems like it is always starved for air. Goes out all the time, I have never had to work so hard to keep a fire going. I am trying to convince the wife to sell this and get something else. I have done so many things to get this checked and nothing works. Is there a way to take the stove apart and remove this thermostat spring?
Wood is dry below 15%, and have the outside air kit as well. I just give up we have had this since this September and worst 5k i've ever spent.

 

[SkipperH]

We got our Dauntless Flexburn without the CAT installed. I will say one thing I spend way too much time trying to keep the fire going, it seems like it is always starved for air. Goes out all the time, I have never had to work so hard to keep a fire going. I am trying to convince the wife to sell this and get something else. I have done so many things to get this checked and nothing works. Is there a way to take the stove apart and remove this thermostat spring?
Wood is dry below 15%, and have the outside air kit as well. I just give up we have had this since this September and worst 5k i've ever spent.

I can certainly relate and I feel your frustration. Like you, I've tried so many things to try to get an even burn, it does work better when it's below 20 degrees and burning it hot. However, there are times when I want to throttle it back and it just doesn't want to cooperate. We did end up buying a Jotul F45 Greenville and the difference is night and day. I will be selling the Dauntless at "discounted" price because I just don't believe this stove is worth the money VC is selling it for.

 

[cyberglyph]

I can certainly relate and I feel your frustration. Like you, I've tried so many things to try to get an even burn, it does work better when it's below 20 degrees and burning it hot. However, there are times when I want to throttle it back and it just doesn't want to cooperate. We did end up buying a Jotul F45 Greenville and the difference is night and day. I will be selling the Dauntless at "discounted" price because I just don't believe this stove is worth the money VC is selling it for.

Agreed, I'm trying to convince the Mrs. now that it needs to go, but she is like ok Rockfeller like we cant afford another stove. So for now I'm stuck with the expensive anchor until I can move this thing out and get a real stove. Blaze king here I come!

 

[cyberglyph]

Agreed, I'm trying to convince the Mrs. now that it needs to go, but she is like ok Rockfeller like we cant afford another stove. So for now I'm stuck with the expensive anchor until I can move this thing out and get a real stove. Blaze king here I come! How much different is the Jotul, no fiddling just put in the wood and go?

 

[SkipperH]

Agreed, I'm trying to convince the Mrs. now that it needs to go, but she is like ok Rockfeller like we cant afford another stove. So for now I'm stuck with the expensive anchor until I can move this thing out and get a real stove. Blaze king here I come!

Good luck, I hope it works out for you.

 

[Michael Todd]

We got our Dauntless Flexburn without the CAT installed. I will say one thing I spend way too much time trying to keep the fire going, it seems like it is always starved for air. Goes out all the time, I have never had to work so hard to keep a fire going. I am trying to convince the wife to sell this and get something else. I have done so many things to get this checked and nothing works. Is there a way to take the stove apart and remove this thermostat spring?
Wood is dry below 15%, and have the outside air kit as well. I just give up we have had this since this September and worst 5k i've ever spent.

I had money down on a Dauntless and despite a lot of bad reviews, I was determined to love it and make it work. I was eager to be a perfect little wood burner and get on here to say how much I loved my VC stove. I just bailed on that idea and decided to change my order to a Blaze King Ashford. I already feel better about my choice.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Yesterday's cold start was a real chore.
Filled the box with kindling and let that burn down to the point that I was mostly large coals
Loaded four smaller splits on top of that, let that burn to most coals
Loaded the box fairly full with mediums and smalls, struggled to keep flames visible and my glass dirtied. Outside there was no smoke. Then once I finally started to see flames I also started to see a lot of smoke coming from the chimney. I let that go for awhile, checked the coal bed and kicked over to secondary. Slight flames and much less smoke to almost none outside.
Hour later, stt is dropping below 400, smoke outside, no flames.
I went back and forth with this load for hours.
Then finally I reloaded with all mediums and it sailed smoothly through the evening, but I still have some darkened glass.
So from startup at around 2p to bedtime reload it took me 8 hours to get this stove into a proper burn state. These stoves were not meant to be weekender stoves, yet you cant just let it burn 24/7 else one or two bad burn days you have dangerous creosote in the pipes.

 

[glensimpson]

Yesterday's cold start was a real chore.
Filled the box with kindling and let that burn down to the point that I was mostly large coals
Loaded four smaller splits on top of that, let that burn to most coals
Loaded the box fairly full with mediums and smalls, struggled to keep flames visible and my glass dirtied. Outside there was no smoke. Then once I finally started to see flames I also started to see a lot of smoke coming from the chimney. I let that go for awhile, checked the coal bed and kicked over to secondary. Slight flames and much less smoke to almost none outside.
Hour later, stt is dropping below 400, smoke outside, no flames.
I went back and forth with this load for hours.
Then finally I reloaded with all mediums and it sailed smoothly through the evening, but I still have some darkened glass.
So from startup at around 2p to bedtime reload it took me 8 hours to get this stove into a proper burn state. These stoves were not meant to be weekender stoves, yet you cant just let it burn 24/7 else one or two bad burn days you have dangerous creosote in the pipes.

I bought a Dauntless this last fall. To say I am disappointed would be an understatement. This stove is horrible, absolutely horrible, in so many ways. It's so bad I think there is a legal case for some sort of fraud case. Literally, sitting here in a cold, smoke smelling house with chunks of charcoal that won't burn unless the stove is in updraft all the time. I have a brand new chimney and flu with no draw or draft problems and hyper dry wood. It is sickening to me to think they are getting 3.5k from folks for this piece of junk. VC is apparently not the same VC it once was.... frustrating.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

So the majority of the time when you lookk on threads like this the issues are new people with poor wood or the installation isn't that great.. looking at this thread.. one persons complaint with back puffing.. Smoke pouring out of the griddle.. smoke pouring out of the front doors.. glass can never get burned clean all scream.. draft issues.. from either subpar wood or install

@glensimpson
Your saying your looking a chunks of charcoal that won't burn .. only if the damper is open will it work.. says the same thing.. poor draft or subpar wood

 

[bholler]

So the majority of the time when you lookk on threads like this the issues are new people with poor wood or the installation isn't that great.. looking at this thread.. one persons complaint with back puffing.. Smoke pouring out of the griddle.. smoke pouring out of the front doors.. glass can never get burned clean all scream.. draft issues.. from either subpar wood or install

@glensimpson
Your saying your looking a chunks of charcoal that won't burn .. only if the damper is open will it work.. says the same thing.. poor draft or subpar wood

Yes but even with Good wood and a good install these stoves and just about every vc stove for the past 30 years is much harder to get to work properly than just about any other stove on the market. They are absolutely much more prone to backpuffs. Much harder to get secondary combustion working properly. Need gaskets more often. Need expensive internal parts more often etc.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Yes but even with Good wood and a good install these stoves and just about every vc stove for the past 30 years is much harder to get to work properly than just about any other stove on the market. They are absolutely much more prone to backpuffs. Much harder to get secondary combustion working properly. Need gaskets more often. Need expensive internal parts more often etc.

I get what your saying with the maintenance.. I believe that anyone who purchase these stoves need to be aware of this for sure.. Im not stating that this stove is for anyone.. probably someone with a little experience with a more modern stove will do better.. but many people do post issues with this stove.. and ALOT of times is self-inflicted.. most have no Idea of what seasoned wood is.. I agree with you.. this style stove is not as forgiving as others..

 

[bholler]

I get what your saying with the maintenance.. I believe that anyone who purchase these stoves need to be aware of this for sure.. Im not stating that this stove is for anyone.. probably someone with a little experience with a more modern stove will do better.. but many people do post issues with this stove.. and ALOT of times is self-inflicted.. most have no Idea of what seasoned wood is.. I agree with you.. this style stove is not as forgiving as others..

I can absolutely agree with all of that

 

[glensimpson]

So the majority of the time when you lookk on threads like this the issues are new people with poor wood or the installation isn't that great.. looking at this thread.. one persons complaint with back puffing.. Smoke pouring out of the griddle.. smoke pouring out of the front doors.. glass can never get burned clean all scream.. draft issues.. from either subpar wood or install

@glensimpson
Your saying your looking a chunks of charcoal that won't burn .. only if the damper is open will it work.. says the same thing.. poor draft or subpar wood

you are so, so wrong..... I had a new chimney put in last summer with 2 flu, one for my yotel downstairs, and one for replacing the old VC upstairs...so I went with a new vc..... I have been burning firewood for 50 + years. I buy my mixed, cut and split hardwood from a well known local source. It's always dry. I am hyper drying it for the Dauntless and it still isn't working well. The yotel downstairs has zero problems with the wood..... it aint my draft, my flu, my chimney, nor my wood. The installation is professional and should be no problem as it goes from 6 to 8 inches going into the wall..... thus some venturi like action should be enhancing my air draw through the stove....if it was that, updraft should be hindered to, but it is not.

The damper gasket started drooping out 1 month after trying to run it with it leaking smoke from the top when in downdraft, it does not keep a kindled fire and put out adequate heat (in moderate temps in particular), makes charcoal rather than ash. It dripped black paint like goo for 10 days on my new stone work, and the top won;t stay up without keeping a hand on it....among other things..... good thing the yotel puts it out downstairs but it doesn't take care of the smoke smell coming from the leaky top on the dauntless.