Another Jotul Oslo vs Castine Post: How to Size the Stove.

[lumbering on]

Based on what you have described, without some common sense compromise I don't see how you are going to burn 24/7 without going to a cat stove. You would do just as well to have a Jotul F100 or similar stove as an area heater and be happy. I do think the Oslo will be way too much stove for a 300 sq ft room with narrow doorways. Even the Castine could drive you out of the room without burning partial load and letting the stove go out. It would take a healthy fan blowing cool air from outside the living room into the there to avoid overheating.

Personally I would be addressing the hearth issues and putting in a Woodstock Keystone. That stove will allow a lower, slow burn without major creosoting issues. FWIW, we wouldn't have the T6 today if I hadn't insisted and just made the decision. My wife loved the look of the Castine and I don't disagree, but it was too small for our heating needs. Since then she has demurred and likes the T6, though she still loads it like it was an F400.

Even though our house is 6,000 square feet, when you start subtracting the closed off space like the unused third floor and basement, and the unused back rooms on the first floor, the actual downstairs is only 1,000 square feet.

It sounds like you agree that the 300 square foot living room would get cooked by the Oslo.

I'm surprised to hear you recommend the F100. I'm sure that's adequate for the living room, but would that mean giving up on heating the rest of the house?

Would the hearthstone not heat us out to much because of the soapstone?

 

[begreen]

Unless you move the air, with a couple narrow doors into the room you are essentially putting the stove in a small box. It doesn't really matter which stove. What matters is the amount of btus per hour that you are dumping into the space. Can you put a fan blowing into the room from an adjacent larger area or will that meet with disapproval? If not, stick with a small area heater.

Another way to look at this. How long could you stand to be in the room with a 1500w electric heater running on high (no thermostat)? A 1500w heater is only 5,118 btus. The Castine is going to want to run at a minimum of twice that or you will be smoldering and blackening the glass.

If you can use a fan to move cooler air into the room, post a sketch of the 1st floor plan for guidance on which doorway to put the fan near.

 

[lumbering on]

Unless you move the air, with a couple narrow doors into the room you are essentially putting the stove in a small box. It doesn't really matter which stove. What matters is the amount of btus per hour that you are dumping into the space. Can you put a fan blowing into the room from an adjacent larger area or will that meet with disapproval? If not, stick with a small area heater.

Another way to look at this. How long could you stand to be in the room with a 1500w electric heater running on high (no thermostat)? A 1500w heater is only 5,118 btus. The Castine is going to want to run at a minimum of twice that or you will be smoldering and blackening the glass.

If you can use a fan to move cooler air into the room, post a sketch of the 1st floor plan for guidance on which doorway to put the fan near.

Here is floor plan:

 

[begreen]

A stud cavity fan on the common wall with the kitchen would help increase circulation to the main part of the house. If that is not an option, then a fan on the floor of the den blowing into the living room would be the next thing I would try. It's the easiest location to experiment with and stay out of major traffic.

It looks like a nice stove in the large entry hallway would be the most effective heating location.

 

[lumbering on]

A stud cavity fan on the common wall with the kitchen would help increase circulation to the main part of the house. If that is not an option, then a fan on the floor of the den blowing into the living room would be the next thing I would try. It's the easiest location to experiment with and stay out of major traffic.

It looks like a nice stove in the large entry hallway would be the most effective heating location.

We have to work with the current hearth location.

We had the den closed off with a door during last winter, but I guess I could open the door as an escape valve for excess heat.

Would the absolute best place for the fan be between the living room and the entry way?

After looking at this floor plan, do you or others still think the Olso or Castine is too much stove??

 

[ddddddden]

My wife's main rule is "no ugly stoves in the living room."
The Jotul Castine and Oslo, and the Hearthstone Heritage are on the approved list.
I spoke with the good people at woodstock, and I would have to rebuild my hearth to go with a woodstock, which I'm not allowed to do. . .

That's too bad. Woodstock makes beautiful stoves, and I agree with BG; a Woodstock would be a good fit for most of your requirements.

With a new baby arriving this winter, I'm sure our heat needs are going to go WAY up. And I refuse to pay another $4,500 in heating oil. . .

I think you just answered your own question about whether to go bigger or smaller. If you are serious about putting a dent in your oil bill, go with a bigger stove. As mentioned, you can always burn a smaller load in a big stove, but you cannot burn a bigger load in a small stove.

I have no problem going with the Oslo. Just need reassurance we won't be driven out of the living room, or have to turn the flame down so much we miss the show.

 

[stovelark]

Hi Lumbering on- what part of NY do you live?? If the home is poorly insulated, and you want to spend time in that room too, its a best guess scenario. I think the Castine is prob the right stove, just know the burn times might not be overnight achievable. The Oslo is like a steam engine- once that 500 lbs of cast iron gets hot and burning, she is gonna be warm. The same can be said of the Castine too. I thought I wanted a painted black stove until my wife decided I wanted a brown majolica (antique chestnut) stove .... I think the Castine will be plenty most days- good dry seasoned wood absolute must. Good luck let us know how it turns out. Jotuls are great choices.

 

[begreen]

We have to work with the current hearth location.

We had the den closed off with a door during last winter, but I guess I could open the door as an escape valve for excess heat.

Would the absolute best place for the fan be between the living room and the entry way?

After looking at this floor plan, do you or others still think the Olso or Castine is too much stove??

If you are just heating the room, the Castine will be loafing. It may not have an overnight burn time, but it is a very capable heater. If you like to keep the den closed in winter, a very good solution would be to put the fan in the dining room entry way and blow it through and into the living room. How much do you use the dining room? If only when there's company, this could be a nice solution. It would help circulate heat into the house.

What is on the kitchen wall that is in common with the living room? That also could present a neat, built-in fan solution that may have higher WAF.

 

[lumbering on]

If you are just heating the room, the Castine will be loafing. It may not have an overnight burn time, but it is a very capable heater. If you like to keep the den closed in winter, a very good solution would be to put the fan in the dining room entry way and blow it through and into the living room. How much do you use the dining room? If only when there's company, this could be a nice solution. It would help circulate heat into the house.

What is on the kitchen wall that is in common with the living room? That also could present a neat, built-in fan solution that may have higher WAF.

I actually broke through that wall and put in a doorway between the kitchen and the living room. It doesn't show that on the plans.

 

[lumbering on]

Are we saying:

1. That unless I find a way to move the air out of that 300 square foot living room with fans, we are going to overheat with the Olso in that room?

and

2. The Oslo will not heat the house due to the small room/old house layout unless I move the air with fans?

3. An F3 or F100 is adequate to heat the living room, and I should consider downsizing because it's too difficult to heat the whole house?

4. The Castine could still cook us out of the living room and I'll still need to move air to avoid this?

OR

5. The Castine may not heat us out of the living room, and still has a chance at whole house heating, as long as I don't care about overnight burns because it's a supplemental heat source?

 

[begreen]

Are we saying:

1. That unless I find a way to move the air out of that 300 square foot living room with fans, we are going to overheat with the Olso in that room?

YES.
and

2. The Oslo will not heat the house due to the small room/old house layout unless I move the air with fans?
Yes

3. An F3 or F100 is adequate to heat the living room, and I should consider downsizing because it's too difficult to heat the whole house?

No, I gave several options, still waiting for response.

4. The Castine could still cook us out of the living room and I'll still need to move air to avoid this?

Possilbly

OR

5. The Castine may not heat us out of the living room, and still has a chance at whole house heating, as long as I don't care about overnight burns because it's a supplemental heat source?

If you can move the heat out of the room I think the Castine would be ok. A lot of this depends on how the stove is run, but truthfully, you would do just as well with a small insert. Unless heat is moved out of the room the actual room needs are small. A stove in the entryway would be a whole different equation.

 

[DianeB]

Nice to see I'm not the only one struggling with this decision. I just came back from the dealer who also struggled with the decision.

My wife's main rule is "no ugly stoves in the living room."

The Jotul Castine and Oslo, and the Hearthstone Heritage are on the approved list.

I spoke with the good people at woodstock, and I would have to rebuild my hearth to go with a woodstock, which I'm not allowed to do.

We basically live only in the living room during the winter. With the unneeded rooms downstairs closed off, we are looking at heating 1,000 square feet in the downstairs, with the living room of 300 sq ft. The staircase and entry way is in the center of the house, with the living room on left, dining on right and kitchen connecting the two. Narrow doorways connect everything. The upstairs doors are kept closed, and we sleep at 60 degrees. With a new baby arriving this winter, I'm sure our heat needs are going to go WAY up. And I refuse to pay another $4,500 in heating oil.

Not sure if knowing the meaningful downstairs square footage is only 1,000 square feet is helpful. There will be leakage I'm sure into the inactive rooms, up the stairs and to the outside.

I have no problem going with the Oslo. Just need reassurance we won't be driven out of the living room, or have to turn the flame down so much we miss the show.

Don't go with the Oslo. If you are mainly trying to heat 300 sq feet and possibly the rest of the floor's 1,000, you will find yourself trying to damp down the fire - and possibly creating creosote and blackening your viewing glass. We have the Castine and it is great 90% of the time. There are near zero days we wished we had somthing bigger, but for 90% of the time, we would find it too large for the space we want to heat. With use of fans positioned to blow in the direction of the stove, we can create air flow that causes the heat to travel down the hall to bedrooms. I think with the Oslo in 300square feet of a small room, you might end up cracking open a window from time to time.

 

[lumbering on]

3. An F3 or F100 is adequate to heat the living room, and I should consider downsizing because it's too difficult to heat the whole house? No, I gave several options, still waiting for response.

Not going to be able to move the stove from the current location. I have to work with the hearth where it is. At least for this decade. We can see about the future.

Again, I spoke with the Woodstock people, current hearth is not adequate for a Woodstock. Would have to rip out the bluestone, put in a layer of cement board, and replace the bluestone, then some masonry work to level make the fireplace itself level with the new bluestone height and a way to hide the cement board edge where it meets the hardwood floor. I'm having a hard time selling this idea. I have to make this as simple as possible.

The KEYSTONE was actually my woodstock choice as well.

All steel plate stoves have been rejected by my wife's no ugly stoves in the living room rule, so someone would have to find me either a cast iron cat stove or convince woodstock to make their stoves ember protection only. Or get me a time machine so I can build my hearth properly the first time.

I think I can sell the idea of a few fans. Especially those skinny tower type fans that I can push up against the doorway.

We definitely don't want to do an insert. Like the idea of a free standing stove too much.

Any other options that I missed?

 

[lumbering on]

Hi Lumbering on- what part of NY do you live?? If the home is poorly insulated, and you want to spend time in that room too, its a best guess scenario. I think the Castine is prob the right stove, just know the burn times might not be overnight achievable. The Oslo is like a steam engine- once that 500 lbs of cast iron gets hot and burning, she is gonna be warm. The same can be said of the Castine too. I thought I wanted a painted black stove until my wife decided I wanted a brown majolica (antique chestnut) stove .... I think the Castine will be plenty most days- good dry seasoned wood absolute must. Good luck let us know how it turns out. Jotuls are great choices.

Seems like most are voting castine, thanks

 

[lumbering on]

Don't go with the Oslo. If you are mainly trying to heat 300 sq feet and possibly the rest of the floor's 1,000, you will find yourself trying to damp down the fire - and possibly creating creosote and blackening your viewing glass. We have the Castine and it is great 90% of the time. There are near zero days we wished we had somthing bigger, but for 90% of the time, we would find it too large for the space we want to heat. With use of fans positioned to blow in the direction of the stove, we can create air flow that causes the heat to travel down the hall to bedrooms. I think with the Oslo in 300square feet of a small room, you might end up cracking open a window from time to time.

can I ask how big your stove room is with the castine? and your overall square footage?

 

[webby3650]

Are we saying:

1. That unless I find a way to move the air out of that 300 square foot living room with fans, we are going to overheat with the Olso in that room?

and

2. The Oslo will not heat the house due to the small room/old house layout unless I move the air with fans?

3. An F3 or F100 is adequate to heat the living room, and I should consider downsizing because it's too difficult to heat the whole house?

4. The Castine could still cook us out of the living room and I'll still need to move air to avoid this?

OR

5. The Castine may not heat us out of the living room, and still has a chance at whole house heating, as long as I don't care about overnight burns because it's a supplemental heat source?

The fact is, most people have a wood stove in their living room. If that was the only room they were trying to heat, then they would be roasting! We all move the heat to outlying rooms with a fan. Not very many people have a 2,000 square foot living room. Your situation is NOT unique! If you want to just heat the living room, just go with an open fire in the fireplace. Otherwise, no matter what stove you choose, moving air is a must!

 

[lumbering on]

If this stove is not your only heating source and your buying for ambiance as well as heating an area of your home, then this makes the most sense to me. The purpose of my insert is to enjoy it, not to heat the entire house. Make a list of what's most important to you and shop that way. What good is it to be forced far away to be able to see a nice flame....gl

This is well stated.

 

[lumbering on]

The fact is, most people have a wood stove in their living room. If that was the only room they were trying to heat, then they would be roasting! We all move the heat to outlying rooms with a fan. Not very many people have a 2,000 square foot living room. Your situation is NOT unique! If you want to just heat the living room, just go with an open fire in the fireplace. Otherwise, no matter what stove you choose, moving air is a must!

It's a good point. Some of these things seem like basic concepts, but for someone who doesn't know the basics (that would be me) it really is important to have them pointed out.

 

[begreen]

Not going to be able to move the stove from the current location. I have to work with the hearth where it is. At least for this decade. We can see about the future.

The KEYSTONE was actually my woodstock choice as well.


Any other options that I missed?

Yes, what is on the kitchen wall that is common with the living room? If it cabinetry, does it go all the way to the ceiling or is there a gap between the cabinets and the ceiling?

 

[lumbering on]

Yes, what is on the kitchen wall that is common with the living room? If it cabinetry, does it go all the way to the ceiling or is there a gap between the cabinets and the ceiling?

I posted above, I actually broke through that wall during the remodel and put in a narrow doorway between the living room and the kitchen. It just doesn't show it on the plans.

Does that change the estimate on how much that room may overheat?

 

[begreen]

I am looking for a place to put in a built-in stud cavity wall fan like this for a kitchen ceiling to liv room floor distribution. http://www.tjernlund.com/Hearth.htm The common wall looks to be much wider than a door on the drawing. But perhaps there isn't room? If the drawing scale is way off, maybe post some pictures of the place so that we can visualize better?

 

[lumbering on]

I am looking for a place to put in a built-in stud cavity wall fan like this for a kitchen ceiling to liv room floor distribution. http://www.tjernlund.com/Hearth.htm The common wall looks to be much wider than a door on the drawing. But perhaps there isn't room? If the drawing scale is way off, maybe post some pictures of the place so that we can visualize better?

View attachment 105478

I'd never heard of this before.

I also forgot to mention that we have forced hot air/central air conditioning. The return duct is in the dining room.

How effective is running just the fan at moving the air?

Could I use the Olso if I run the fan on the central unit?

 

[Michael Golden]

I'd never heard of this before.

I also forgot to mention that we have forced hot air/central air conditioning. The return duct is in the dining room.

How effective is running just the fan at moving the air?

Could I use the Olso if I run the fan on the central unit?

I have tried this and it doesn't work so well! But it does help cool things down a good bit.

 

[lumbering on]

I have tried this and it doesn't work so well! But it does help cool things down a good bit.

So it cooled down the stove room, but didn't warm up the rest of the house that well?

 

[begreen]

I'd never heard of this before.

I also forgot to mention that we have forced hot air/central air conditioning. The return duct is in the dining room.

How effective is running just the fan at moving the air?

Could I use the Olso if I run the fan on the central unit?

Duct losses usually negate the gains. If the basement is cold and the runs are long you could end up cooling the house down more. That is unless all of the ductwork is well sealed and insulated. But then there is also the cost of running the fan all the time. In an area of high electric rates this can be significant.