all of you pc-45 owners

[SmokeyTheBear]

Folks the pipe on the outside is 4", there is a 3" horizontal piece along with a 3" horizontal 45 degree bend inside the house behind the stove.

I would expect a very dirty burn. Someone must be feeding Harman a load of bull doo doo.

 

[Lousyweather]

Folks the pipe on the outside is 4", there is a 3" horizontal piece along with a 3" horizontal 45 degree bend inside the house behind the stove.

I would expect a very dirty burn. Someone must be feeding Harman a load of bull doo doo.

I dont *think* it is 4"......they are clearly using a Harman Pass-Thru, which is only produced in a 3" variety at this time.......part number 1-00-677077. The inside pipe is certainly 3", and I dont see any indication of a 3-4 increaser anywhere.......

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Folks the pipe on the outside is 4", there is a 3" horizontal piece along with a 3" horizontal 45 degree bend inside the house behind the stove.

I would expect a very dirty burn. Someone must be feeding Harman a load of bull doo doo.

I dont *think* it is 4"......they are clearly using a Harman Pass-Thru, which is only produced in a 3" variety at this time.......part number 1-00-677077. The inside pipe is certainly 3", and I dont see any indication of a 3-4 increaser anywhere.......

The 3" to 4" transition was made at the Tee on the outside.

 

[Lousyweather]

Folks the pipe on the outside is 4", there is a 3" horizontal piece along with a 3" horizontal 45 degree bend inside the house behind the stove.

I would expect a very dirty burn. Someone must be feeding Harman a load of bull doo doo.

I dont *think* it is 4"......they are clearly using a Harman Pass-Thru, which is only produced in a 3" variety at this time.......part number 1-00-677077. The inside pipe is certainly 3", and I dont see any indication of a 3-4 increaser anywhere.......

The 3" to 4" transition was made at the Tee on the outside.

hmmm...could be...hard to tell from the pic.....BUT, if thats the case, a connection had to have been made WITHIN the passthru, and if so, how do you know if it isnt leaking, disconnected, etc. A mistake to ever have a joint connection not viewable/accessable. There is also a shadow where that transition is......whats the possibility something is obstructing the airflow INTO the stove? Did the installer remove the disk of insualtion in the passthru? If not removed fully, you'd have diminished airflow to the stove, causing a soot problem as well.....

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Folks the pipe on the outside is 4", there is a 3" horizontal piece along with a 3" horizontal 45 degree bend inside the house behind the stove.

I would expect a very dirty burn. Someone must be feeding Harman a load of bull doo doo.

I dont *think* it is 4"......they are clearly using a Harman Pass-Thru, which is only produced in a 3" variety at this time.......part number 1-00-677077. The inside pipe is certainly 3", and I dont see any indication of a 3-4 increaser anywhere.......

The 3" to 4" transition was made at the Tee on the outside.

hmmm...could be...hard to tell from the pic.....BUT, if thats the case, a connection had to have been made WITHIN the passthru, and if so, how do you know if it isnt leaking, disconnected, etc. A mistake to ever have a joint connection not viewable/accessable. There is also a shadow where that transition is......whats the possibility something is obstructing the airflow INTO the stove? Did the installer remove the disk of insualtion in the passthru? If not removed fully, you'd have diminished airflow to the stove, causing a soot problem as well.....

All I know is what the OP told me and it is just possible to see the transition in those photos. As you have already said it is a bad install from a number of perspectives.

ETA: This isn't the only thread on here about this install.

 

[weezel8666]

Is there a way I can check where the 3" to 4" meet in the t? maybe that is one of the many problems here.Ironically Harman's main tech guy sees nothing wrong with the 3" to 4" and 24' of vent...although the manual states otherwise.I tried calling him twice,he will not return my call. I emailed the topguy at harman and his daughter.No response...
Harman's customer service manager tells me their people see nothing wrong with my venting.This is his email.......
I realize you will not be happy with this response, so please call me upon receiving this email and we can talk through the decision. From the very beginning we have worked with you to get this issue resolved. Please trust us that we are doing the right thing by installing a new stove with your existing venting, and know that we very much want our stove to work in your home.

 

[aaronnoel]

well if it is 4" that would change things, maybe its not that pipe at all. Sounds like Harman is trying here by sending out a new unit. Why a different model, was that your choice or there's?You could have a dud and just need to switch out unit to heat your house again.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

well if it is 4" that would change things, maybe its not that pipe at all. Sounds like Harman is trying here by sending out a new unit. Why a different model, was that your choice or there's?You could have a dud and just need to switch out unit to heat your house again.

noelp68,

Even 4" pipe has a limit.

If that unit was operated at the dealership it should not be a dud.

 

[weezel8666]

Even thoug the 18"at the back of the stove is 3"that doesn't matter?
no th e43 was not my choice,its what they said they were going to give me.Probably because the service guys was out here so many times...they are trying to recoup their money and screwing me.That makes me out of 1000 dollars...I paid 5000 for this install..

 

[weezel8666]

smokey? what is my evl?and your OPINION on my set up?
the dealer SAID he only ran the thing for 20 hrs.Three years old...still had corn in burnpot entry when I saw it ?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Well lets see you have a 45 degree elbow + 1 of horizontal for 3.5 according to some books or 6.0 according to another or 4.0 from yet a third, plus the Tee for either 8.5, 11, or 9 plus a 45 degree elbow for 11, 14 , or 12 then I'm going to come back to the slope later, plus another 45 elbow making it 13.5, 17, or 15, plus 1/2 the height of the vertical which is 20 feet so now we have either 23.5, 27, or 25 plus we have to treat the slope as being part vertical and part horizontal.

Based upon cross sectional area the 4" pipe starts becoming an issue at 26+, there are other considerations to be sure.

So you can all do your own figuring and come to your own conclusions.

I stopped doing the calculation as soon as my back of the eyelid exceeded 15 and I was still left with the vertical and slope run.

The installation instructions (page 7 of their very own manual) direct from Harman say more than 15 and it must be 4" vent. The instructions (that blasted page 7 yet again) also say using the minimum number of elbows possible.

There is at least one 45 degree bend that isn't needed, can you spot it?

 

[jtakeman]

There is at least one 45 degree bend that isn't needed, can you spot it?

Yep sure can. The first one after the tee. You can tilt the tee eliminating it.

 

[weezel8666]

ok...so how does the pipe come apart? twist like the cap on the bottom?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

ok...so how does the pipe come apart? twist like the cap on the bottom?

Most venting will twist apart after any screws are removed provided it isn't glued together with a lot of silicone. That tall vent stack will present a problem if you are contemplating doing anything on your own. That much piping is both heavy and awkward to handle without help.

 

[weezel8666]

nothing is siliconed....going tocheck out that t...stove is disconnected.I am seeing soot residue above the Harman wall pass thru....might take that apart ans see whats in there.

 

[Lousyweather]

they might have siliconed the joints, in which case, it would be difficult to remove the piping....its do-able, but you'll usually destroy the pipe in doing so.....its also possible they didnt use any sealant at all, which would help you in removing pipe, but, as Smokey says, a stack that tall would be pretty heavy.....BUT now you see a soot tracing ABOVE the passthru?! That would indicate a leak of some sort, and possibly in the worst place.....IN the passthru......most of the leakage would be sucked BACK into the stove and recombusted......not all that good.....if you do take it apart, check inside the passthru and see how messy it is......should be clear, but if there is alot of soot inside it, well, thats just not right......would be a pretty bad leak if that were the case.....

If you arent running the stove, remove the pipe from the inside, if possible, and you wont have to deal with the heqavy pipe outside...wow...the plot thickens!

I also wonder why they arent setting you up with a p61a rather than the p43? Or a p68? Closer to the original cost of the PC45

 

[weezel8666]

trying to remove the pipe didnt go well,I can only see how to remove the elbow behind the stove and the small piece that attatches to the stove.The rest I have no clue...where it goes into the wall pass thru,I can;t see how to disconnect it.The pipe is pretty loose in the hole to the outside wall it moves up and down.

 

[gfreek]

rufusmom, hey, been following this thread. You are trying to remove the pipe and just go straight out the wall? If you can't get the pipe apart at the tee or the 45 above the tee, why can't you remove the clean out cap on the bottom of the tee and try that. I know its close to the combustion air inlet, but hey...at this point worth a try??? Just a thought... Anybody else...

 

[weezel8666]

was going to remove the pass thru to see if that too was caked with soot.
Yea removed the cap,that IS corrored with soot ans sticky black..
thought I saw soot bleading thru the wall ABOVE pass thru...maybe just some of the soot that is always on me...I now look like a mechanic.

 

[weezel8666]

My pc-45 was replaced with a p-43 much smaller. Much cleaner than other stove,no more black soot in a matter of minutes.
Hopefully this one works better. Other stove was a lemon apparently?

 

[poconoman]

My pc-45 was replaced with a p-43 much smaller. Much cleaner than other stove,no more black soot in a matter of minutes.
Hopefully this one works better. Other stove was a lemon apparently?

Is the P43 brand new? If yes, then good. Same venting pipes or did they do any changes?

 

[weezel8666]

yes brand new...same vent...they cleaned it. I might just try to get someone else out to remove an elbow. The one just by the t

 

[weezel8666]

hey by the way,thanks for the help and advice

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

yes brand new...same vent...they cleaned it. I might just try to get someone else out to remove an elbow. The one just by the t

Plenty of soot in it was there?

 

[jtakeman]

Glad this had a happy ending!