alderlea, isle royale, defiant

[elkimmeg]

Stove comparisons fire box size and effeciecy equates to longer more BTUs delivered to the room the cleaner a stove burns the more energy/ heat captured and turned into heat less fuel escaping up the chimney.. My theory would be the largest fire box most efficient stove will produce the most usable heat. A good indication might be is to compare EPA tested and certified GPH particulate numbers. The few particulates emitted the more burnt producing energy. Other features might be wife appealing, dustless ash collection and disposal system. The open fire place options screen.

As explained to me by the head of engineering, some companies set their target out put BTUs closer to real world expectations. And not complete full throttle opperations.

 

[thechimneysweep]

BeGreen, Ken's original statement to me was that the house temperature is too warm during the day to have a fire due to the solar gain, but then plummets as soon as the sun goes down, at which point he lights his fire and then has to burn his stove wide open for several hours to bring it back up to temp; hence the short burn time. I feel the Summit will bring the house back up to temperature faster than any stove I've ever burned, allowing him to reload if necessary and then turn it down for the long burn.

 

[webbie]

A good indication might be is to compare EPA tested and certified GPH particulate numbers. The few particulates emitted the more burnt producing energy

Well, you were right until you posted that!

If we use EPA numbers, the largest stove suggested (3.4 cf) would be only tested up to about 30,000 BTU an hour (manufacturers numbers) and 69% efficiency, neither of them earth shattering.

Put in a more common sense fashion, this guy needs to burn about 12 Lbs or more of wood an hour, that is 5,500 grams. The dust off the bark on one split is more than one gram!

This dude need the biggest fuel tank he can find - period and exclamation point. But since style is important, that is probably the Defiant NC. I don't know of any larger cast stoves in terms of firebox.

 

[webbie]

I feel the Summit will bring the house back up to temperature faster than any stove I've ever burned, allowing him to reload if necessary and then turn it down for the long burn.

We are responding to this:
"My current stove, if burning at maximum, will heat the space. However, I’m reloading every 2 hours."

A convection stove will heat a cold space quicker in a situation like his - sure, but we are talking here about a train going uphill. You might be able to fool it for a 1/4 mile once it comes down a grade, but once it loses the initial momentum you're gonna have to shovel some coal in the boiler!

Now if he said "The jotul does the job once the place is heated up, but it takes 3 hours to do so". Then we might agree that a convection unit might only take 1 1/2 hours, etc.

However, he continually gives the problem as smallish fuel load and short burn times. Tom, do you sell VC? If you do, try this and let us know. Load as many of your regular splits as you can in the PE. The take them out and load them in the largest NC VC (Defiant). I don't know the results, but my guess is that there will be room for a reasonable amount more in the VC. If not, then my advice is for him to stay with what he has or find a 4.0 cubic foot stove that is easily loaded to that.

 

[BrotherBart]

Get the Summit with a blower. Big ass firebox to gen the heat and a blower to get that convection heat the heck out of there and moving around the joint. That place is like heating a barn. Put a cute light fixture on that ceiling fan and forget about it. Get the air moving to the stove and then the heck back out into the house. Ever seen a central heating system that is just a hot box with a ceiling fan over it? I didn't think so. Pull it in, heat it up and blow it out into the house.

You can have the biggest cast iron mojocker in the world sitting there red hot and it ain't gonna keep up with the place. And for gosh sakes do like BeGreen says. Anticipate the problem and have that stove cranking by the time the sun sets.

What is this catch-up business? You know it is going to be getting cold. Get a move on before it happens.

 

[titan]

I'd pick the biggest Blazeking made complete with the double blowers,set the thermostat to "11" and let er rip like BB said......before it gets cold....any stove will be suckin' the hind teat playing catch-up @ 10,000 ft vertical.The biggest firebox out there=more wood loaded=more heat over a longer period of time.....period.

 

[KeithO]

It sounds like you may be best off fitting roller shutters to reduce heat loss from that south facade. Here is a link to one of the companies (there are many) that sell this kind of product. You can reduce the heat loss by half which is pretty significant.

(broken link removed to http://www.rollupshutter.com/products/outsideviews/index.asp)

 

[Gunner]

IMO of the three stoves in the post title the Summit is best for this application hands down.

The Defiant NC is....... :roll: everburn

Kenkathy didn't say the blazeking was an opinon.... does have a monster firebox and LONG but LOW temp burn times.

Don't know how well they do cruising at 800 deg like a summit.
FYI the 4.32cuft King weighs 435lbs, the Alderlea T6 (3cuft) is 585lbs, soom food for thought.

 

[begreen]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard that the BlazeKing "has" to be run at low temps. That is just for the legendary 40 hr burn time. It can also be opened up and run hot. The stove is thermostatically dampered. If you set it for 70, its going to put out what it needs to in order to try and reach that temperature before dampering down the fire. PM north of 60 and ask why they are burning them in Alaska - one word - heat.

 

[elkimmeg]

Don’t know how well they do cruising at 800 deg like a summit.

Is it any wonder the bafflet gets warped running a stove that hot? I'll have to read the manual, but I doubt any stove company recommends running a stove that hot

 

[Gunner]

I don't know of any manual that recommends temps Elk. I have been to 800 many times and my baffle is mint.


Like it or not this stove is going to be pushed. You think he's going to dilly dally with a 600deg stove when they get to a cold cabin. Get a stove that can handle the abuse....firebrick and a baffle is all there is in a summit, any metal shop could bend you one up in a day if needed. The same can't be said for doghouse's and soft refactory packages and custom parts like that. The T6 is thicker and more HD than most any stove being built today...thats why a way bigger King is 150lbs lighter.

 

[webbie]

Well, I have heard about Magic stoves since the day I went into business, with the Buck being the first one - can heat your house for 24 hours on 2 splits of wood, plus also be used to cool the house in the summer by putting frozen milk jugs inside.

Gunner, I don't know what you mean by "pushed", but the Forum is not for "pushing" stoves. It is for pointing out possible benefits and education, etc.
Go back and read the posts from this thread - his #1 concern is longer burn times. The jotul does the job, but at 2.5 cubic feet only burns 2-3 hours. So, instead of "pushing" simply explain how a 3.0 cubic foot firebox is going to burn any longer than 20% more.

As to the longevity, I don't doubt you there - and I have long maintained that a steel stove is the one to have if you are stuck on a (cold) desert island and you have no access to parts and service.

We've beat this one to death, but I think all the answers are somewhere in the thread above. Will the VC need more parts and service in the future if burned hot? I would say yes, it would. A nice Mercedes also needs a lot more parts and service than most cars. This is a decision of the buyer. If simply practicality were the question, we would answer get the largest cubic foot box....but I don't think the Blaze King or HearthStone meets the "style" specs.

 

[Gunner]

You don't think the jotul is be "pushed" by running full bore loading every 3 hrs.

If his 2.5cuft jotul burns for 3hrs does that mean a 5cuft stove will burn for 6hrs........I don't think so.

There is no way your going to burn a full firebox load of softwood in a summit in 3.6 hrs (3hrs + your 20%) with out overfiring the snot out of it. Sorry no way, I get 8hrs on softwood and 12 on hardwood with temps as high as 700.... a full load in 3.6hrs would have the stove glowing.
No magic here I have burned plenty of softwood loads and they aint done in 3.6 hrs.

I don't know how the blazeking even got mentioned, THEY HAVE A 6" CHIMNEY the king needs 8" pipe, plus they are going for the "cast look".

He's getting 2-3 burns cause he's got an E-W loading stove with a top sloping firebox. Equal cuft there is no way your loading as much in a E-W stove even with top load or side load. Mabey if the andirons went right to the top, but they don't and you can not load "a second or third layer" close to the front unless you like burning splits touching the glass. With any N-S loader provided the right size splits you could effectively fill every square inch of firebox right to the baffle or tubes within a half inch of the front glass and they are not rolling anywhere. Ever look at how they package a box of straws?

 

[kenkathy]

I was communicating with Be Green who compelled me to write a follow up to this thread. I purchased a PE alderlea T6 and installed it in November. It's been around 0 to 10 degrees this winter with the largest snow year in the past 8 years. The new stove when compared to the jotul oslo 500 has been an impressive increase in wood capacity due to north south loading (I'd say at least double the real world wood capacity) , all night burns are now possible (8 hours) and it lights and takes off like a rocket ship. The loading is much more convenient due to the large front door. The heat is largely convection with the cast iron cladding remaining relatively cool and the front glass putting off a great deal of radiant heat. The drawback when compared to the jotul oslo would be inferior casting detail, less substantial ash tray and damper handle and the possibility of getting a hernia when moving a 600 pound stove.

 

[Gunner]

Glad it worked out for you...I was wondering what happened.

 

[begreen]

It's not that common for us to get this kind of comparative operation in a tough to heat situation. I must admit I was skeptical (and wrong) about the stove making such a difference. I thought the large glass area would ultimately be the issue. The fact that the T6 is now covering their needs, without blower is very impressive.

 

[Gunner]

I believe the major difference is as Kenkathy said the N/S loading.