I recently had an Blaze King Ashford insert installed. Great looking insert and long burn times but I'm having problems with how dirty the glass is getting. It was my understanding that the glass would get dirty on low setting and would clear up when on high. It is not clearing up at all. Could I be doing something wrong or do you think the unit is malfunctioning? Any input would be appreciated
Air wash Ashford 25
- Thread starter Kissash
- Start date
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Squisher
Minister of Fire
What sort of wood? How seasoned? Do you measure wood moisture content? If so how?
What is the installation and chimney configuration? Do you monitor temperatures? How?
Pictures help a lot.
,And welcome.
What is the installation and chimney configuration? Do you monitor temperatures? How?
Pictures help a lot.
,And welcome.
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
Well, the first question is always going to be about the wood. Fire wood for EPA stoves need to be cut split and stacked )CSS) for typically two years. Other things in question would be chimney length and possibly operation.
EDIT; See!
EDIT; See!
Wood is over 2 years old and split and stacked. Just tested moisture on a few pieces for the heck of it. All between 15 and 18 percent. I don't think wood is the issue. It has a built in thermometer. It doesn't give actual temps just color coded. When it's in the red it's at proper tempature which it is. Chimney is only 15 ft. I have a slight smoke smell from it also but also but not bad at all. So you think it's a drafting issue? I didn't realize that caused air wash issues. It was mentioned that a chimney extension may be needed but I thought that was if it got smoke issues.
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When you tested the wood moisture was it on a fresh split? My sirocco can go a year and not look that bad. I scrap it with a razor every 3 months or so. Also sounds like draft might be a small issue. Any chance you can lengthen your chimney another 2-3 foot?
The wood was split a couple of years ago. I really think it's fine. I guess I don't understand the physics on how it cleans the glass. I can put an extension on the chimney if necessary but I would like to be reasonably certain that's the cause of the problem before doing so.
RandyBoBandy
Minister of Fire
What rickb is saying is in order to get an accurate moisture reading it needs to be on a freshly split piece of wood which has been brought up to room temp.
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
Weak draft can result in a lazy fire and slow air flow as the fire dies or (perhaps) during low burn (not a BK owner). If the draft is weak an extra length of pipe can help. What is the total length of the chimney? You can put up a cheap length of cheap single wall as a test before investing in stove pipe.
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
Maybe just good enough if there are no bends especially any horizontal runs. Any bends will diminish draft.
Edit: Forgot this is an insert, no bends likely.
Edit: Forgot this is an insert, no bends likely.
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We recently had a BK insert owner that had a smoke smell problem. He just added 2 ft to his 15' chimney and says it's made a notable difference in stove performance.
Liner insulation can also be a factor. Is there a full 15' stainless steel liner on this insert and is this liner insulated for its full length?
BKVP
Minister of Fire
Are you loading E/W or N/S. Are you loading up close to the glass or on top of front brick retainers?
The air wash can be influenced by the degree of “blockage”, which creates an air dam.
And yes, draft is important for all elements of operation.
Is your liner insulated?
The air wash can be influenced by the degree of “blockage”, which creates an air dam.
And yes, draft is important for all elements of operation.
Is your liner insulated?
Glass on my AF25 stays nice and clean. What setting(s) - t stat and fan do you run your ashford 25 and what burn time(s) are you getting?
lsucet
Minister of Fire
Be sure to char the wood after reloads. I don't know much about the insert but being a BK, I assuming should be the same procedure. A hot fire after reloads really takes care a lot of that and burn time is the same.
You will get better efficiency.
Look into the MC of your wood like recommend by others.
I think is wood or not charring the wood enough before dial it to low. I think that regardless of low draft, that is something to you should look into it, a hot burn should take care most of that. Check the way you load it like BKVP said. Sometimes you have to learn and find what works for you best.
You will get better efficiency.
Look into the MC of your wood like recommend by others.
I think is wood or not charring the wood enough before dial it to low. I think that regardless of low draft, that is something to you should look into it, a hot burn should take care most of that. Check the way you load it like BKVP said. Sometimes you have to learn and find what works for you best.
You can get a cheap piece of snap-together connector pipe at the farm store and add it to cheaply see if another section of chimney is gonna help..
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
Hey dude, we are trying to help. The new size 25 inserts have a couple wrinkles compared to the other BK stoves.
Statistically, any given season, most, like 80+ % of the new burners problems are their wood isn't as dry as they think it is.
Just to review, to be "in the club" your wood needs to be indoors for 24-48 hours, plenty of time to be at +50dF or greater all the way through. then split open, then measure the MC on the freshly exposed surface that was deep inside just a few moments ago. Typical consumer grade (under $100 retail) moisture meters are calibrated at +70dF, but for most species most of the time if you take a reading with the wood at +50dF and add 1 you and us will be pretty close to the truth. Remember to stick the pins in parallel to the grain of the wood.
It is very easy for a piece of wood to read 14-18% on the outside surface that has been exposed to the elements for two years, and still be 25-35% on the inside. It happens every year. It's no reflection on you at all. It happens a LOT. Stick around. You too can copy and paste the foregoing next year, over and over.
So you have 15 feet of stack, minor smoke smells, and dirty glass even on high.
Your most likely problem is wood MC > 20% on the inside of the split, but I don't like the smoke smell thing.
I am gonna go download the manual for the size 25 box. I really like this firebox, enough that I asked my wife to get me one to run in my shop as a Christmas gift. She probably isn't going to spend that much...BRB
Statistically, any given season, most, like 80+ % of the new burners problems are their wood isn't as dry as they think it is.
Just to review, to be "in the club" your wood needs to be indoors for 24-48 hours, plenty of time to be at +50dF or greater all the way through. then split open, then measure the MC on the freshly exposed surface that was deep inside just a few moments ago. Typical consumer grade (under $100 retail) moisture meters are calibrated at +70dF, but for most species most of the time if you take a reading with the wood at +50dF and add 1 you and us will be pretty close to the truth. Remember to stick the pins in parallel to the grain of the wood.
It is very easy for a piece of wood to read 14-18% on the outside surface that has been exposed to the elements for two years, and still be 25-35% on the inside. It happens every year. It's no reflection on you at all. It happens a LOT. Stick around. You too can copy and paste the foregoing next year, over and over.
So you have 15 feet of stack, minor smoke smells, and dirty glass even on high.
Your most likely problem is wood MC > 20% on the inside of the split, but I don't like the smoke smell thing.
I am gonna go download the manual for the size 25 box. I really like this firebox, enough that I asked my wife to get me one to run in my shop as a Christmas gift. She probably isn't going to spend that much...BRB
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
Got the manual on my desktop.
15 feet of stack meets minimum, but just barely. I am only 6 inches over minimum on a different product, you are probably fine there.
In post one you said you had it installed. Was this a pro shop BKVP can lean on, or your wife's cousin's brother in law?
The gaskety bits at the box/pipe interface in the manual give me the screaming heebie-jeebies. If this wasn't done correctly, you are going to smell smoke.
A couple words about user BKVP , post #14 above. Chris is the vice president of Blaze King. Not the VP of marketing, not the VP of customer service, the VP.
He asked if you are loading N/S (ends of every split visible through the glass) or E/W (ends of every split facing the side walls).
He asked if you are loading on top of the front brick retainers - which I probably will do when I get mine.
He asked if your liner is insulated.
He asked if you are loading up close to the glass.
Chris is a rabid dog when it comes to customer satisfaction, but he is too tall to hold at arm's length by palming his forehead.
If you answer his questions satisfactorily, and your wood is under 20% on a freshly split face and you had a pro install by a BK dealer all you got to do is leave your door unlocked the day the dealer says they are coming back to make it right.
FWIW the yes/no indicator for cat activity is really all you need to run the stove. I didn't see a 25 size firebox operation video on youtube just now, but really you don't need anything else unless maybe you are in an EPA designated non-attainment area for air quality. In that case you might need to operate the stove less efficiently than ideal to meet the local ordinances forced upon you by the nice people at EPA who only have your own best interests at heart.
15 feet of stack meets minimum, but just barely. I am only 6 inches over minimum on a different product, you are probably fine there.
In post one you said you had it installed. Was this a pro shop BKVP can lean on, or your wife's cousin's brother in law?
The gaskety bits at the box/pipe interface in the manual give me the screaming heebie-jeebies. If this wasn't done correctly, you are going to smell smoke.
A couple words about user BKVP , post #14 above. Chris is the vice president of Blaze King. Not the VP of marketing, not the VP of customer service, the VP.
He asked if you are loading N/S (ends of every split visible through the glass) or E/W (ends of every split facing the side walls).
He asked if you are loading on top of the front brick retainers - which I probably will do when I get mine.
He asked if your liner is insulated.
He asked if you are loading up close to the glass.
Chris is a rabid dog when it comes to customer satisfaction, but he is too tall to hold at arm's length by palming his forehead.
If you answer his questions satisfactorily, and your wood is under 20% on a freshly split face and you had a pro install by a BK dealer all you got to do is leave your door unlocked the day the dealer says they are coming back to make it right.
FWIW the yes/no indicator for cat activity is really all you need to run the stove. I didn't see a 25 size firebox operation video on youtube just now, but really you don't need anything else unless maybe you are in an EPA designated non-attainment area for air quality. In that case you might need to operate the stove less efficiently than ideal to meet the local ordinances forced upon you by the nice people at EPA who only have your own best interests at heart.
SuperJ
Feeling the Heat
The comment about charring your would for 15-30minutes really helped in my case early this year. My first week or two, I soiled the glass pretty quickly. Probably a combination of imperfect wood and in a big rush to experience the low BK burn that I'd heard to so much about.
Now I load it up on a nice hot coal bed (don't wait till it's almost all ash), leave the door cracked until it's almost raging (only takes a minute or two), then close the door, and flip the bypass closed (assuming it's either still really hot, or the fire box is full of hot flames). I leave it on high for at least 10minutes, but probably longer. This drives any remaining moisture out, and helps prepare the wood for a long low burn unencumbered by excessive moisture. Then I turn down to my low burn position in probably a series of 3-4 small adjustments.
The other thing for me, is some of my wood is over length and requires a diagonal load or it ends up too close to the glass. You need to leave lots of room for an air wash. On low burn there isn't that much air moving thru the firebox so you don't want to block it's path or your going to get sooty glass right away behind the blockage.
Now I load it up on a nice hot coal bed (don't wait till it's almost all ash), leave the door cracked until it's almost raging (only takes a minute or two), then close the door, and flip the bypass closed (assuming it's either still really hot, or the fire box is full of hot flames). I leave it on high for at least 10minutes, but probably longer. This drives any remaining moisture out, and helps prepare the wood for a long low burn unencumbered by excessive moisture. Then I turn down to my low burn position in probably a series of 3-4 small adjustments.
The other thing for me, is some of my wood is over length and requires a diagonal load or it ends up too close to the glass. You need to leave lots of room for an air wash. On low burn there isn't that much air moving thru the firebox so you don't want to block it's path or your going to get sooty glass right away behind the blockage.
Thanks for all the input. Let me answer some of these questions.
The stove was installed by a BK dealer
It is a stainless steel liner and is insulated the full length of the chimney
The wood placement question is interesting. I have only loaded east to west. I load as much as I can and there has been a load or 2 that has been on top of brick retainers. Too close? I have also loaded a couple of pieces diagonally because they were too long.
I run the stove at various temperatures depending on the temp of the room. The blower is mostly always on the highest setting.
I will try the MC test again after leaving wood inside for a day and resplitting as suggested.
Ideally what is the closest the wood should be to the door? I'm not sure what you mean by charring the wood before reload. Can you explain what that means? You mean throwing kindling in with it?
The stove was installed by a BK dealer
It is a stainless steel liner and is insulated the full length of the chimney
The wood placement question is interesting. I have only loaded east to west. I load as much as I can and there has been a load or 2 that has been on top of brick retainers. Too close? I have also loaded a couple of pieces diagonally because they were too long.
I run the stove at various temperatures depending on the temp of the room. The blower is mostly always on the highest setting.
I will try the MC test again after leaving wood inside for a day and resplitting as suggested.
Ideally what is the closest the wood should be to the door? I'm not sure what you mean by charring the wood before reload. Can you explain what that means? You mean throwing kindling in with it?
lsucet
Minister of Fire
I did say after reloads. When you let it burn on high for those 15 to 30 minutes depending on type of wood and MC, is when you are charring that wood and getting ready for a long efficient burn. At the same time during that hot burn the glass clean itself a good percentage of all that soot.
Hope this help
Hope this help
SuperJ
Feeling the Heat
Charring, is simply running it on high immediately after reload, usually till there are active flames all over the wood. It has more to do with bringing the fuel up to temp and driving moisture out than physically charring it. I sometimes throw bit of kindling in if I don't have a lot of active coals. Otherwise the new wood sits there smouldering for a while before it catches. But I try to reload before my coals die down to the point of needing kindling. Running it on high also has the benefit of getting all that smoke out of the firebox so it doesn't soil your glass
Too close? I don't know if there is number but it's obvious when the flames and smoke are directly impinging on the glass rather than being pushed back by the air wash.
NS is definitely preferred to EW, since it lets the air flow into the wood, instead of being blocked by a the wall that is created by the first piece. The air is introduced from a slit along the top of the door, from which it flows along the glass and then into the fuel. The inserts might be different since they look to be much wider than the freestanders.
Too close? I don't know if there is number but it's obvious when the flames and smoke are directly impinging on the glass rather than being pushed back by the air wash.
NS is definitely preferred to EW, since it lets the air flow into the wood, instead of being blocked by a the wall that is created by the first piece. The air is introduced from a slit along the top of the door, from which it flows along the glass and then into the fuel. The inserts might be different since they look to be much wider than the freestanders.
SuperJ
Feeling the Heat
A pre-reload char in the living room with a blow torch would be interesting to say the least.
BKVP
Minister of Fire
North/South loading allows for more air flow, creates less of an obstruction. 16" logs will fit in to the front brick. However, if you have some shorts (15" or less) I would suggest running a few loads of them as an experiment.
So, for every single installation there is a specific burn rate a stove must be operated in order to achieve proper combustion. As you lower the burn rate, you reduce stack temps. In reducing stack temps, you reduce one critical component of optimal draft. If you run low enough to get a smoke smell or spillage (when opening door) or catalytic combustor stalling, you may wish to consider adding a 2'-3' section of pipe to the chimney.
The more draft you have, the hotter on high and more sustained activity/draft on low.
We'll get it figured out...
Chris
So, for every single installation there is a specific burn rate a stove must be operated in order to achieve proper combustion. As you lower the burn rate, you reduce stack temps. In reducing stack temps, you reduce one critical component of optimal draft. If you run low enough to get a smoke smell or spillage (when opening door) or catalytic combustor stalling, you may wish to consider adding a 2'-3' section of pipe to the chimney.
The more draft you have, the hotter on high and more sustained activity/draft on low.
We'll get it figured out...
Chris
lsucet
Minister of Fire
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