Advises on backup batteries for Harman XXV

[francis44]

Hello there,
I would like some advises about the choice of a battery for my Harman XXV, it's the basic version (not the new one with the screen, the touch control one).
I would like to run the stove on battery for roughly 8h.

As far as I understood, I need :
- An Inverter/Charger with Pure Sine Wave Output
- A 12 volt deep cycle battery

I found some guidelines from Harman here:

https://downloads.hearthnhome.com/brochures/HAR-0040U-0718_BatteryBack-upOptions.pdf

But this guideline is outdated and the inverter Tripp Lite APS1012SW has been discontinued in 2019.

1/ Do you know any recent model/brand of inverter?
I suppose that after almost 6 years, the technology has improved.

2/ Do you know any recent model/brand of battery that could fit nicely?

Thank you
Francis

 

[Oregun]

We use a pure sine wave inverter (600W) connected to two 12V RV deep-cycle batteries in parallel.
This is outside in our RV , we run a extension cord through the window to the pellet stove.
Runs about 12hrs, then gets recharged during the day with a gas-powered portable generator.
Can also continue to run the stove while batteries are being charged during the day.
Also you can light the stove manually to help save the battery rather than use the igniter.
There are others solutions that should work for you too.

 

[bogieb]

My strategy is to use an Ecoflow Delta2Max (D2M is 2,048wh). I place an APC BE850G2 UPS between the EF battery pack and the stove so that even if the battery pack is exhuasted, then the stove will get the benefit of shutting down gracefully from the UPS.

When there isn't threat of power outage, I use the D2M for running kitchen appliances and then use solar to recharge. Granted, solar is not really available December thru mid February, but that is fine.

 

[Dataman]

Got my Harmon XXV (Like Yours without LCD) in May 2018. I also got AIMS 1250 Charger/Inverter along with 100ah Battery. One time we used it for 10 hour power outage. 100ah not enough. Ended up yanking 30ah battery from Garage to provide power. Now I have two 100ah Batteries (that get replaced next year). I figure 12 hours of use. I turn the Distro Fan down to 1/2 speed to prolong the battery life. Did some testing (Msg here somewhere) and it seems to get 12 hours easily. With 6 years on batteries they show over 13v run together. I unplug the whole thing in off season and just plug it in monthly to charge. All run thru surge protector at Wall.

 

[Ocelot]

Hello there,
I would like some advises about the choice of a battery for my Harman XXV, it's the basic version (not the new one with the screen, the touch control one).
I would like to run the stove on battery for roughly 8h.

As far as I understood, I need :
- An Inverter/Charger with Pure Sine Wave Output
- A 12 volt deep cycle battery

I found some guidelines from Harman here:

https://downloads.hearthnhome.com/brochures/HAR-0040U-0718_BatteryBack-upOptions.pdf

But this guideline is outdated and the inverter Tripp Lite APS1012SW has been discontinued in 2019.

1/ Do you know any recent model/brand of inverter?
I suppose that after almost 6 years, the technology has improved.

2/ Do you know any recent model/brand of battery that could fit nicely?

Thank you
Francis

If I remember correctly, the small backups recommended by Harman basically trigger a shutdown to keep smoke from getting into the room. Those aren't meant to run the stove. I use a big APC Smart UPS 1000 with my Harman P43 and if the power goes out, the stove doesn't flinch. It just keeps going. On tests, It continued to run for at least 45 minutes before I plugged the power back in to end the test. The UPS still said I had a while left. We don't lose power often and that amount of time covers most short outages, or gives me plenty of time to start the generator. What I also like about a good one like my APC, is it conditions the power both from the utility or my generator.

 

[Oregun]

Got my Harmon XXV (Like Yours without LCD) in May 2018. I also got AIMS 1250 Charger/Inverter along with 100ah Battery. One time we used it for 10 hour power outage. 100ah not enough. Ended up yanking 30ah battery from Garage to provide power. Now I have two 100ah Batteries (that get replaced next year). I figure 12 hours of use. I turn the Distro Fan down to 1/2 speed to prolong the battery life. Did some testing (Msg here somewhere) and it seems to get 12 hours easily. With 6 years on batteries they show over 13v run together. I unplug the whole thing in off season and just plug it in monthly to charge. All run thru surge protector at Wall.

How do you turn down the distribution fan speed to half speed? Any issues from doing that?

 

[Dataman]

They Knob for the Fan controls the speed. Most of the time I just turn it on all the way. Unless watching TV.
Look at the picture of Fan on it. Fan speed is more to left and less to right on the knob. Issues? Well your not going to get as much Heat I bet. It will be quieter. But I have not found it noticeable in the Heat Department.

 

[Oregun]

They Knob for the Fan controls the speed. Most of the time I just turn it on all the way. Unless watching TV.
Look at the picture of Fan on it. Fan speed is more to left and less to right on the knob. Issues? Well your not going to get as much Heat I bet. It will be quieter. But I have not found it noticeable in the Heat Department.

Always kept mine at the minimum for quiet running, seems to heat our house just fine in that position. However will remember that setting next time I start it up to a very cold house to heat up faster.

 

[francis44]

Thank you all for your very interesting responses!

First of all, I wrote to Harman, and they sent me to their webpage :

How to Use a Pellet Stove During a Power Outage

Harman-approved battery backup systems will keep you warm while riding out the storm.

forgenflame.com

1st option : Tripp Lite INTERNET750U
AUPS simply shuts the stove down. It doesn’t operate the stove during an outage but ensures it’s safely powered down if electricity is lost.
2nd option : an Inverter/charger with pure sinus and the UPS option (Uninterruptable Power Supply) connected to one or more 12-volt deep cycle batteries.
They work with the brand Tripp Lite and advise Tripp LiteAPS700HF or Tripp LiteAPS750

But as Dataman and other users, other brands like AIMS or APC seem to do the job just fine.

These options are great but I'm not living so far in the mountain or in the countryside, and I don't risk too long power outage (max 1 or 2 days).
I think the portable power stations available nowadays would be sufficient and more compact for my need. They can also come with solar panel if needed.

The main known brands are :
- Ecoflow (like the one used by bogieb)
- Jackery
- Bluetti
- Anker seems also pretty reliable.

Different sizes of battery are available, the biggest are of course pricey.

Among these brands, some products get the official UPS with a short time response, like the bluetti one "Seamless UPS in 20ms" and other have apparently just the "EPS (Emergency Power Standby)" with longer time responses. Apparently this would be important for computer like devices, but I don't think that would have so much impact on stoves.

Anyway, I wrote to Bluetti and they confirm that their product is suitable to my need, so I may try this option.

About the power need of a pellet stove, it uses apparently around 300W to start the ignition and around 30W to continue to work with the fans. To keep it running for longer time it would be good to :
- Reduce the fans
- Manually ignite the fire with gel
- Do cycle like 3h on and 5h off
As described in this video : How To Run A Pellet Stove WITHOUT Electricity

I'll tell you how it worked. Thanks!

 

[bogieb]

Thank you all for your very interesting responses!

First of all, I wrote to Harman, and they sent me to their webpage :

How to Use a Pellet Stove During a Power Outage

Harman-approved battery backup systems will keep you warm while riding out the storm.

forgenflame.com

1st option : Tripp Lite INTERNET750U
AUPS simply shuts the stove down. It doesn’t operate the stove during an outage but ensures it’s safely powered down if electricity is lost.
2nd option : an Inverter/charger with pure sinus and the UPS option (Uninterruptable Power Supply) connected to one or more 12-volt deep cycle batteries.
They work with the brand Tripp Lite and advise Tripp LiteAPS700HF or Tripp LiteAPS750

But as Dataman and other users, other brands like AIMS or APC seem to do the job just fine.

These options are great but I'm not living so far in the mountain or in the countryside, and I don't risk too long power outage (max 1 or 2 days).
I think the portable power stations available nowadays would be sufficient and more compact for my need. They can also come with solar panel if needed.

The main known brands are :
- Ecoflow (like the one used by bogieb)
- Jackery
- Bluetti
- Anker seems also pretty reliable.

Different sizes of battery are available, the biggest are of course pricey.

Among these brands, some products get the official UPS with a short time response, like the bluetti one "Seamless UPS in 20ms" and other have apparently just the "EPS (Emergency Power Standby)" with longer time responses. Apparently this would be important for computer like devices, but I don't think that would have so much impact on stoves.

Anyway, I wrote to Bluetti and they confirm that their product is suitable to my need, so I may try this option.

About the power need of a pellet stove, it uses apparently around 300W to start the ignition and around 30W to continue to work with the fans. To keep it running for longer time it would be good to :
- Reduce the fans
- Manually ignite the fire with gel
- Do cycle like 3h on and 5h off
As described in this video : How To Run A Pellet Stove WITHOUT Electricity

I'll tell you how it worked. Thanks!

Just be aware that the inverter for the station will use power also, so you won't get the full run time you expect. You may get up to 80% of the stated whs out of a power station.

I don't think the ones you are looking at are large enough. I used my Ryobi power station with four 40v x 6.0 ah batteries and got 6-7 hours during a 3-day power outage. Those batteries translate into roughly 960 wh. I was lucky and had a neighbor who had power so I was constantly recharging batteries (which is why I went looking at power stations that I could recharge with solar). Naturally, the temps were in the teens (F*) - not sure how cold it gets at your place.

At any rate, having something, is better than nothing, so starting out with one of those would be fine and you can go from there after testing and seeing how well it fits your needs. And I certainly wouldn't make the "perfect" an enemy of having something at all, so I'm not trying to discourage you - just give you realistic expectations. And, it isn't like you can't add another unit later down the road when financials allow. That way one station can charge while the other is in use. I have backups for my backups as I've piecemealed a plan together

 

[Dataman]

I also looked at Solar. Went with 1k Inverter Generator for Backup to Batteries/Inverter. Here in Winter nice Warm Sunny Days are rare. Beside it was tons cheaper. Typical Nice Winter day in Pic

 

[scajjr2]

Thank you all for your very interesting responses!

First of all, I wrote to Harman, and they sent me to their webpage :

How to Use a Pellet Stove During a Power Outage

Harman-approved battery backup systems will keep you warm while riding out the storm.

forgenflame.com

1st option : Tripp Lite INTERNET750U
AUPS simply shuts the stove down. It doesn’t operate the stove during an outage but ensures it’s safely powered down if electricity is lost.
2nd option : an Inverter/charger with pure sinus and the UPS option (Uninterruptable Power Supply) connected to one or more 12-volt deep cycle batteries.
They work with the brand Tripp Lite and advise Tripp LiteAPS700HF or Tripp LiteAPS750

But as Dataman and other users, other brands like AIMS or APC seem to do the job just fine.

These options are great but I'm not living so far in the mountain or in the countryside, and I don't risk too long power outage (max 1 or 2 days).
I think the portable power stations available nowadays would be sufficient and more compact for my need. They can also come with solar panel if needed.

The main known brands are :
- Ecoflow (like the one used by bogieb)
- Jackery
- Bluetti
- Anker seems also pretty reliable.

Different sizes of battery are available, the biggest are of course pricey.

Among these brands, some products get the official UPS with a short time response, like the bluetti one "Seamless UPS in 20ms" and other have apparently just the "EPS (Emergency Power Standby)" with longer time responses. Apparently this would be important for computer like devices, but I don't think that would have so much impact on stoves.

Anyway, I wrote to Bluetti and they confirm that their product is suitable to my need, so I may try this option.

About the power need of a pellet stove, it uses apparently around 300W to start the ignition and around 30W to continue to work with the fans. To keep it running for longer time it would be good to :
- Reduce the fans
- Manually ignite the fire with gel
- Do cycle like 3h on and 5h off
As described in this video : How To Run A Pellet Stove WITHOUT Electricity

I'll tell you how it worked. Thanks!

We have the same setup as Dataman and have only had 1 extended power outage in the past 4 years and it ran our P43 for 9 hours and could have gone a couple more.

sam

 

[Dataman]

Be careful with Jackery. They are selling Old Model and New Model. You want new Model. It won't even come close to what I have in Run Time. Your talking 4.7Ah battery vs 200ah Batteries. But if you only want more than .25 of an hour think Bigger. But if are only interested in shutting it down it will do just fine. Personally If don't want to spend the $$$ on Big Batteries and Inverter/Charger go the other road. Small Generator. Sportsman or such. Less than $300. Downside it's Gas.

 

[Dataman]

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[hamhock75]

it uses apparently around 300W to start the ignition and around 30W to continue to work with the fans.

Just wondering where you got these numbers? When I was shopping for stoves, my notes show that the XXV manual says it uses 115 VAC at 2.8 A when running and 115 VAC at 4.2 A to start. That seems a lot more than 30 watts

My old Whitfield WP2 uses about 60 watts at the lowest possible setting but it cannot heat much space at that setting.

 

[Dataman]

My XXV uses about 400w to start and 170w to run. I have Kill a Watt on it. No way 60watts. I posted the numbers years ago here. I will try to re-link it.

 

[Dataman]

Here is the message I posted way way back in 2018



Did my 1st real world test of my Backup Inverter today (Sep 24, 64f outside). Stove draws about 102 watts on Medium Speed. 1.02 Amps. Test done to see if this battery is any good and provides power. Inverter will draw it down to Low "battery alarm: 10.5 Vdc-11.0 VDC"

On the Surface it seems I can get my 8 hours. But it's not cold enough to do more than test the battery. Will do another test in November.

Pulled the Gizmo (Spartan Power Meter).

Max Useage: 414w - Stove Light
Amps: 3.828

If it ran this way all the time couple hours run time (switch to manual on battery)

On Low side 122 watts and 1.02 amps on Med Fan Settings.

Took more readings:

High Fan Speed:

1.9A 116w - 4.31 Hours Run Time on 100ah battery

Medium Fan Speed:

.42a 69w - 7.24 Hours Run Time on 100ah battery

Note: This assume no relights and 100 auger/fan running at this speeds. So I expect more.

Numbers say 8 hours run time. (I doubt it, say 4-6 real world cold)

Aims 1250 Watt 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger
PICOGLF12W12V120AL
Universal UB121000-45978 12v 100AH Deep Cycle AGM Battery 12V 24V 48V(Black)

Harmon XXV Pellet Stove
Started at 11:30am

Voltage: Time:
13.36 Before Start
12.08 11:32am - Cold Auto Start (Max Draw)
12.50 12:08am
12.47 12:30am
12:50 12:45am
12:00 1:47pm - Cold Auto Start (Max Draw)
12:31 2:05pm
12:26 2:44pm
12:20 3:13pm
12.12 3:30pm

 

[hamhock75]

60 watts is my old Whitfield WP2 on its lowest possible setting. I was worried that the OP thinks he can run the XXV at 30 watts. That just did not seem possible. Your numbers at 400 watts and 170 watts are far more reasonable. The WP2 on medium settings runs about 90-120 watts.

I have a GoldenMate Li-Ion UPS. Last night I disconnected the UPS from power and let it run until it stopped working. It was 2 hours 25 minutes.

https://www.amazon.com/GOLDENMATE-8...-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

 

[Oregun]

Here is the message I posted way way back in 2018



Did my 1st real world test of my Backup Inverter today (Sep 24, 64f outside). Stove draws about 102 watts on Medium Speed. 1.02 Amps. Test done to see if this battery is any good and provides power. Inverter will draw it down to Low "battery alarm: 10.5 Vdc-11.0 VDC"

On the Surface it seems I can get my 8 hours. But it's not cold enough to do more than test the battery. Will do another test in November.

Pulled the Gizmo (Spartan Power Meter).

Max Useage: 414w - Stove Light
Amps: 3.828

If it ran this way all the time couple hours run time (switch to manual on battery)

On Low side 122 watts and 1.02 amps on Med Fan Settings.

Took more readings:

High Fan Speed:

1.9A 116w - 4.31 Hours Run Time on 100ah battery

Medium Fan Speed:

.42a 69w - 7.24 Hours Run Time on 100ah battery

Note: This assume no relights and 100 auger/fan running at this speeds. So I expect more.

Numbers say 8 hours run time. (I doubt it, say 4-6 real world cold)

Aims 1250 Watt 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger
PICOGLF12W12V120AL
Universal UB121000-45978 12v 100AH Deep Cycle AGM Battery 12V 24V 48V(Black)

Harmon XXV Pellet Stove
Started at 11:30am

Voltage: Time:
13.36 Before Start
12.08 11:32am - Cold Auto Start (Max Draw)
12.50 12:08am
12.47 12:30am
12:50 12:45am
12:00 1:47pm - Cold Auto Start (Max Draw)
12:31 2:05pm
12:26 2:44pm
12:20 3:13pm
12.12 3:30pm

Thanks for the report!
Looks like lowering fan speed can help quite a bit.
Your batteries are indoors right? Much warmer than my batteries which are outdoors in the cold in my RV.
Having them indoors should help extend output some too.

 

[Dataman]

Thanks for the report!
Looks like lowering fan speed can help quite a bit.
Your batteries are indoors right? Much warmer than my batteries which are outdoors in the cold in my RV.
Having them indoors should help extend output some too.

Indoors right beside the Harmon. Last year for them. Going to spring for 200ah Li Batteries next Season.

 

[hamhock75]

Going to spring for 200ah Li Batteries next Season.

That is what I would recommend. I have sealed lead acid UPS's and Li-Ion. The sealed lead acids need replacing every few years. The Li-Ion's seem to last far longer.

 

[francis44]

Be careful with Jackery. They are selling Old Model and New Model. You want new Model. It won't even come close to what I have in Run Time. Your talking 4.7Ah battery vs 200ah Batteries. But if you only want more than .25 of an hour think Bigger. But if are only interested in shutting it down it will do just fine. Personally If don't want to spend the $$$ on Big Batteries and Inverter/Charger go the other road. Small Generator. Sportsman or such. Less than $300. Downside it's Gas.

Well, I have considered this option as I use Gas inside in my kitchen and outside for the BBQ.
Thanks for the calculation, you're right, the difference of run time is really important here!

Just wondering where you got these numbers? When I was shopping for stoves, my notes show that the XXV manual says it uses 115 VAC at 2.8 A when running and 115 VAC at 4.2 A to start. That seems a lot more than 30 watts

My old Whitfield WP2 uses about 60 watts at the lowest possible setting but it cannot heat much space at that setting.

Just an average number on an average stove provided by Google.
The numbers provided by Dataman are far more reliable.

 

[mellow]

You have some good advice so far, my 2 cents would be to try turning your unit off in the middle of a burn to see how your current setup handles the power loss, do you have have enough draft so it will not leak smoke/co into the house?

It is a good piece of info to have. The power company tested mine for me the other day.

I am in between setting up to make my pellet stove solar powered with battery backup.

 

[Dataman]

What is the Solar in the Winter. Since I doubt your going to use it much in Summer. Personally I think it's not worth the costs. Better spent on better battery. I looked into it in E WA State and not sunny enough in Winter. I spent my $$$ on Inverter/Charger and Batteries and then Small 1k Generator. Don't cost much to charge batteries.

 

[mellow]

I have upgraded my camper to all lithium and a 2200w inverter and all new bifacial solar panels and mppt charger so I will have a spare 2200w inverter with built in 30a pwm solar and (2) 100w solar panels and (2) 100ah LA batteries to play with.