try a different brand of pellets, winkster. The auger clunk is the auger shearing off a long pellet or two....certain brands seem to average longer than others.....dont worry, all will burn in the '68!
Advice on which Pellet Stove Brand to go with, please
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Hate to be repetitive, but with such a large purchase you DO have to consider what just happened to Harman. It's a bigger deal than most of us get to know about. If we strip away all the PR, the company pretty much "failed". Harman owes a lot of money to vendors and the new company is not assuming the debt. In my experience, that means Harman...the existing company....is no more! We could say it was a "forced" sale.
I don't think the new company will retire the brand, but stranger things have happened. More likely, the dealers may change - other policies may change.
As a consumer, I think you must take this into account. It is a premium stove at a premium price, and a lot of the price was because of Mr. Harman and the efforts of the Harman dealers, reps and others to support the product. The future is a bit of a question mark.
This could, of course, happen to any company - I'm just saying that buying decisions must be based on more than just the product. Do you have multiple Harman dealers in the area? (in case one gets the line yanked)....etc. etc.
I may get flamed for bringing out the obvious.....but in the world of economics and value, a product from a company which has recently "crashed" does not have the same value as the same product from that company before it did......IMHO, of course.
I don't think the new company will retire the brand, but stranger things have happened. More likely, the dealers may change - other policies may change.
As a consumer, I think you must take this into account. It is a premium stove at a premium price, and a lot of the price was because of Mr. Harman and the efforts of the Harman dealers, reps and others to support the product. The future is a bit of a question mark.
This could, of course, happen to any company - I'm just saying that buying decisions must be based on more than just the product. Do you have multiple Harman dealers in the area? (in case one gets the line yanked)....etc. etc.
I may get flamed for bringing out the obvious.....but in the world of economics and value, a product from a company which has recently "crashed" does not have the same value as the same product from that company before it did......IMHO, of course.
I too have the same reservations as web. No debt assumed a New 300,000 sq ft facility land buildings equipment inventory 29 mill initially seems like a lot of money but considering the building land ect. It does seem like a fire sale buy out. Troubled company, I suspect over expanded and got caught short when 2006 was not a repeat of 2005 sales
warehouses full of inventory that was not moving and that huge expansion note to meet every month .. ITS product line is very much in question Or a wait out see period might be a wise
decision till things get sorted out and a path of direction spelled out
Note other companies did not have the year they expected for 2006
warehouses full of inventory that was not moving and that huge expansion note to meet every month .. ITS product line is very much in question Or a wait out see period might be a wise
decision till things get sorted out and a path of direction spelled out
Note other companies did not have the year they expected for 2006
The Gospel According To Dane Harman from The Patriot News:
(broken link removed to http://www.pennlive.com/business/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/business/1190859013257360.xml&coll=1)
(broken link removed to http://www.pennlive.com/business/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/business/1190859013257360.xml&coll=1)
Seems like a fairly accurate article - with the exception that it is putting the best possible face on things "They are the best bank we could find" - the quote from Dane, really means "they were our only hope and now I don't own the company any more".
This is really the same type of thing that happened to VC (at least twice, maybe more) and to Lopi/Avalon. Results can vary.
In the best light, it is what happens when you shoot for the sky. The conservative business person in me would have told Dane two years ago to remain a 20 or 30 million dollar company - which could be self-financed using his equity and some bank/vendor credit - but people with this type of discipline are rare. After all, given a chance to be "top dog", many folks would go for it - especially a guy like Dane.
On the other hand, Dane or anyone else would have to have an "exit strategy" someday........but in all probability this is not the one he imagined. At the same time, we have to remember that the VC founder walked away with $1 - at least Dane has SOME money and a chance to much more if you can pump sales up. Then again, who needs money after the first 10 million or so? (well, some do, but most of us would be satisfied with anything north of 3-5 million)
This is really the same type of thing that happened to VC (at least twice, maybe more) and to Lopi/Avalon. Results can vary.
In the best light, it is what happens when you shoot for the sky. The conservative business person in me would have told Dane two years ago to remain a 20 or 30 million dollar company - which could be self-financed using his equity and some bank/vendor credit - but people with this type of discipline are rare. After all, given a chance to be "top dog", many folks would go for it - especially a guy like Dane.
On the other hand, Dane or anyone else would have to have an "exit strategy" someday........but in all probability this is not the one he imagined. At the same time, we have to remember that the VC founder walked away with $1 - at least Dane has SOME money and a chance to much more if you can pump sales up. Then again, who needs money after the first 10 million or so? (well, some do, but most of us would be satisfied with anything north of 3-5 million)
Auger is just loud.....no getting around that. Yes if I use some kind of pellets it will cut the ends of them off and that sounds like a gunshot. Ok maybe not THAT loud but it's loud.
Nobody should flame you over that. It's a valid concern. I would bet that Dane wanted to grow even more than he can with his current dealer network. This allows him to get more $$ to expand more. It may give him a bigger dealer network. Possibly we could now see some of the Harman tech in other stoves? That would be very cool.
Many of the small/med sized guys are forced to do this if they want to keep growing and be major players. Happens all the time in todays world. Look at the car world. Chryco got bought.....used for a while then sold agian.
Many Many people still buy Dodge cars. Not as many as before but it still happens pretty regular like.
Anyways I've got my fingers crossed as a consumer that everything will go fine.
As an example last time I went in to buy some stove paint I saw a guy buying parts for his whitfield stove.
That reminds me....I need to buy a cleaner brush and give the stove a good scrubbing today before it gets cold agian tonight......
Nobody should flame you over that. It's a valid concern. I would bet that Dane wanted to grow even more than he can with his current dealer network. This allows him to get more $$ to expand more. It may give him a bigger dealer network. Possibly we could now see some of the Harman tech in other stoves? That would be very cool.
Many of the small/med sized guys are forced to do this if they want to keep growing and be major players. Happens all the time in todays world. Look at the car world. Chryco got bought.....used for a while then sold agian.
Many Many people still buy Dodge cars. Not as many as before but it still happens pretty regular like.
Anyways I've got my fingers crossed as a consumer that everything will go fine.
As an example last time I went in to buy some stove paint I saw a guy buying parts for his whitfield stove.
That reminds me....I need to buy a cleaner brush and give the stove a good scrubbing today before it gets cold agian tonight......
im waiting with crossed fingers too. Dane Harmon is a big man in the industry for a reason, his company has been cutting edge for years, one of the "caddillac brands" ive stated in the past that the boss has deep respect for the man, excellent judge of charactor my boss. his opinion is good enough for me. personally i hope i get the privalige of meeting the gentleman, i'd like to buy him a few drinks and chew the fat for a while. if he has anything at all to do with it , Harmon stoves will remain a top of the line name in the industry (if for no other reason than that its HIS name when you put your own personal name on a product it gets personal). and he is not leaving the company from what i understand couple that with the fact that the folks that have worked for him are still "working for him" in my opinion, and probably itching to show how good they can do it for him in lue of the new ownership (they wont let him down when you work for a man like that you step up in this kind of situation to mke him look better) im sure they will make Dane proud. quality especially in the short term quite possibly could be even better for that reason. i know because i "grew up " working in the same kind of company at englander, family owned and operated so to speak. When Ron England walks the plant floor, its like watching Knute Rockne walk through a locker room. the respect is apparant,and it goes both ways. Dane probably has those kind of walks too, and i bet he and his employees both enjoy it
Never heard a bad word about Dane - which is saying something......and remember, here is the guy that VC (when they were prospering) went to in order to get pellet stove technology.
The problem is that life is complex - Dane was about doing it right - "built to a standard, not a price" is actually the company motto. He invested big time in custom electronics and other such stuff back when it cost a bundle.
You never know what is going to happen - maybe after he fulfills his commitment to the buyer, he will start back in his garage with the "Great Dane" brand of new models! Stranger things have happened. The Ex-CEO of VC now runs a retail shop in VT......etc. etc.
The problem is that life is complex - Dane was about doing it right - "built to a standard, not a price" is actually the company motto. He invested big time in custom electronics and other such stuff back when it cost a bundle.
You never know what is going to happen - maybe after he fulfills his commitment to the buyer, he will start back in his garage with the "Great Dane" brand of new models! Stranger things have happened. The Ex-CEO of VC now runs a retail shop in VT......etc. etc.
well, the info on this site has been very helpful. since posting and reading your replies, we've looked at a number of other pellet stoves. Alas, I don't think the Englanders are an option for us as I can't find anyone local who sells 'em. Home Depot sells another brand, Canadian made, pelletpro if i recall correctly.
BTW thought i'd share some info re. install prices. They vary widely, anywhere from a low of $450; $950; $975; one guy told us to budget $1200-1600 for his installer
just to install it!? we'd like to find a more reasonably priced installer... Things cost more when you live on an island. sigh.
after all is said and done, looks like we are going to go for the Harman XXV. looks are important since it'll live in the dining room. and we'll be taking a bit of a chance, in light of the recent acquisition. that was certainly interesting reading and hopefully it will turn out to be a positive development.
will post again once we get it installed. thanks again; very grateful for the info and opinions shared here.
BTW thought i'd share some info re. install prices. They vary widely, anywhere from a low of $450; $950; $975; one guy told us to budget $1200-1600 for his installer
just to install it!? we'd like to find a more reasonably priced installer... Things cost more when you live on an island. sigh.after all is said and done, looks like we are going to go for the Harman XXV. looks are important since it'll live in the dining room. and we'll be taking a bit of a chance, in light of the recent acquisition. that was certainly interesting reading and hopefully it will turn out to be a positive development.
will post again once we get it installed. thanks again; very grateful for the info and opinions shared here.
hope everything works out well for you anne,(im sure it will) and remember , we are still going to be here when you get the install done (that means pictures) and will also be here if you have any other questions.
) and will also be here if you have any other questions.Happy to report that the Harman XXV now sits proudly in the corner of our dining room - picture attached.
It's doing a nice job of keeping this place warm - I'll report back one day this winter when the wind is blowing from the north
we really like the way it looks, too.
It's doing a nice job of keeping this place warm - I'll report back one day this winter when the wind is blowing from the north
we really like the way it looks, too.
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Anne said:BTW thought i'd share some info re. install prices. They vary widely, anywhere from a low of $450; $950; $975; one guy told us to budget $1200-1600 for his installer
Anne, what did you end up paying for installation? What price turned out to be reasonable for you?
The final stove cost Canadian $3400. The all-inclusive final bill was $4522.20. $450 of that was the vent; $350 install price, the rest is taxes $252.00 GST (Canadian federal tax) and 70.20 PST (provincial tax). They also threw in a free metal stove board and 30 bags o' pellets.
It's sure nice to have the smell of wood burning outdoors again.
Beautiful day here in Prince Edward Island - looking forward to a cold windy December day when we can put this stove to the test.
It's sure nice to have the smell of wood burning outdoors again
.Beautiful day here in Prince Edward Island - looking forward to a cold windy December day when we can put this stove to the test.
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