Advice on insert vs stove to replace Superior zero clearance fireplace

[PAbeech]

They aren't so easy to pull out. Often they are built in with the facia needing to be removed.

I pulled out mine 2 years ago required some cutting with a Sawzall, wasn't that bad if you are capable

 

[bholler]

They aren't so easy to pull out. Often they are built in with the facia needing to be removed.

They actually are really easy. I don't do many and can still have them out in about an hour.

The problem is even with an insert in them you still have a crappy drafty zero clearance box and you can cover the vents.

 

[begreen]

This can be done, It depends on how the old one was installed, facia covering, access to the rear, hearth, etc. If the goal is to keep as much intact as possible, then easy rear access and a lot of careful measuring is where to start.

 

[hoot]

Problem is if you take one out you can what do you do then? Can you get a different ZC in with the existing structure/dimensions?
I solved the problem. Installing a Lopi Insert.

 

[PAbeech]

Problem is if you take one out you can what do you do then? Can you get a different ZC in with the existing structure/dimensions?
I solved the problem. Installing a Lopi Insert.

I put a pacific energy high efficiency zc unit in

 

[begreen]

There have been a few that came here for advice and made the switch. If the enclosure size, basic framing, and opening size is similar then it's possible though easier with rear access.

 

[hoot]

I'll document my install

 

[begreen]

That will be different than what @triceps is considering if a freestanding stove is to be vented via a liner thru the ZC. The main factor with what he has proposed is the lintel height.

 

[triceps]

Thanks for all the helpful comments and discussion.

From my understanding, right now none of the manufacturer inserts are approved/allowed into zero clearance setups like mine. Is that correct?

I’ve also been told that Lopi and maybe some others might be coming out with approved inserts as early as later this year? If anyone has any insights on how realistic that timing estimate is, that would be hugely helpful.

Once an approved insert is available, I’ve been quoted a total price of around $7K for everything for an insert install. However, similar to the comments in this thread, some have cautioned against going this route for safety reasons, with one local installer even saying he would refuse to do it out of safety concerns even with a manufacturer approved insert. Safety is a huge priority, of course, but still not sure what to make of the conflicting safety advice here?

Alternatively, going the alcove and freestanding stove route — ripping out the zero clearance, adding some tile and putting in a freestanding wood burning stove (eg Vermont Castings Encore) is gonna push the total price up closer to $15K. This option is available now and it sounds like this would generally be considered to be the safer approach regardless of how safe an insert in a ZC is.

Thoughts?

Thank you.

 

[hoot]

Thanks for all the helpful comments and discussion.

From my understanding, right now none of the manufacturer inserts are approved/allowed into zero clearance setups like mine. Is that correct?

I’ve also been told that Lopi and maybe some others might be coming out with approved inserts as early as later this year? If anyone has any insights on how realistic that timing estimate is, that would be hugely helpful.

Once an approved insert is available, I’ve been quoted a total price of around $7K for everything for an insert install. However, similar to the comments in this thread, some have cautioned against going this route for safety reasons, with one local installer even saying he would refuse to do it out of safety concerns even with a manufacturer approved insert. Safety is a huge priority, of course, but still not sure what to make of the conflicting safety advice here?

Alternatively, going the alcove and freestanding stove route — ripping out the zero clearance, adding some tile and putting in a freestanding wood burning stove (eg Vermont Castings Encore) is gonna push the total price up closer to $15K. This option is available now and it sounds like this would generally be considered to be the safer approach regardless of how safe an insert in a ZC is.

Thoughts?

Thank you.

There are two different versions of the Lopi stoves. Ones before 2024 and the ones built after. They are both the exact same stoves but in two different regulatory years. The one I purchased... Large Flush was built in December of 2023. The manual shows how to install it in a ZC fireplace. It is very specific on what sheet metal and parts you can remove from the ZC to be safe. Stoves built after 12-31-2024, the manual removes the instructions for doing same because Lopi says the new regulations require them to re-certify the stove in that application. So LOL.... mine is fine. Works fine but it's a really tight install. I've installed a few wood burners and liners. I used a double wall insulated liner. The existing Superior chimney is air cooled so you need to make sure you use an air cooled cap.

Pulled the trigger on a Lopi Large Flush Insert....

Yes no flame. The glow is mostly from the cat.

www.hearth.com

 

[triceps]

Thanks. The other catch in my case is that the insert or stove needs to be eligible for the California woodsmoke voucher program:

All EPA-certified catalytic stoves are eligible, but only some (see list below) non-catalytics are eligible.

These are the only non-catalytic wood stoves that are eligible to be used under this incentive.

Table 1. Non-Catalytic Wood Stoves Eligible for Incentives

Manufacturer Name	Model Name	Annual Avg EmissionRate (grams/hr)
Energy Distribution	Invicta Group: Kazan, Kazan GA, Kiara, and Kiara GA	1.8
Energy Distribution	Gaya Ardoise, Itaya, Onyx, Gaya Feuille, Symphonia, Antaya, Theïa, Akan	1.9
HHT/Hearth and Home Tech	21M-ACC-C, Discovery-1-C	1.7
Hearth and Home Technologies	Quadra Fire Expedition II and Vermont Castings Montpelier II	1.8

 

[hoot]

Thanks. The other catch in my case is that the insert or stove needs to be eligible for the California woodsmoke voucher program:

I don't know about California but mine is eligible for the 2k federal tax credit.

 

[bholler]

Thanks for all the helpful comments and discussion.

From my understanding, right now none of the manufacturer inserts are approved/allowed into zero clearance setups like mine. Is that correct?

I’ve also been told that Lopi and maybe some others might be coming out with approved inserts as early as later this year? If anyone has any insights on how realistic that timing estimate is, that would be hugely helpful.

Once an approved insert is available, I’ve been quoted a total price of around $7K for everything for an insert install. However, similar to the comments in this thread, some have cautioned against going this route for safety reasons, with one local installer even saying he would refuse to do it out of safety concerns even with a manufacturer approved insert. Safety is a huge priority, of course, but still not sure what to make of the conflicting safety advice here?

Alternatively, going the alcove and freestanding stove route — ripping out the zero clearance, adding some tile and putting in a freestanding wood burning stove (eg Vermont Castings Encore) is gonna push the total price up closer to $15K. This option is available now and it sounds like this would generally be considered to be the safer approach regardless of how safe an insert in a ZC is.

Thoughts?

Thank you.

It really doesn't matter if the insert is approved. If the fireplace does not allow inserts to be installed in that fireplace there is no way to do it legally period. The insert manufacturer cannot over ride the instructions for the fireplace

 

[hoot]

It really doesn't matter if the insert is approved. If the fireplace does not allow inserts to be installed in that fireplace there is no way to do it legally period. The insert manufacturer cannot over ride the instructions for the fireplace

All approved in my case. Superior specifically states it.
Show me a case where a house burned up doing what I did.
I talked to more than one installer who said it's a non issue and it's done all the time. Just need to be sure it's done right.
Responsible people do responsible things.
If you are concerned that much, don't do it. There are some crazy stupid burners out there and somehow they survive... but then some don't. We educate ourselves.

 

[bholler]

All approved in my case. Superior specifically states it.
Show me a case where a house burned up doing what I did.
I talked to more than one installer who said it's a non issue and it's done all the time. Just need to be sure it's done right.
Responsible people do responsible things.
If you are concerned that much, don't do it. There are some crazy stupid burners out there and somehow they survive... but then some don't. We educate ourselves.

If both the fireplace manufacturer and insert manufacturer say it's ok obviously it's ok. But in the majority of cases the fireplace manufacturer doesn't ok it. I don't know if it's safe or not. No one does because it hasn't been tested. That is why I didn't say anything about safety I talked about the legality of it. I really don't care what other installers are willing to do I care what the manuals say. I care what the csia ncsg nfi and absolutely every other professional organization in the field has to say about it and the liability risks involved. You do whatever you want to do but don't go around telling people something is fine to do when it clearly is not allowed by code.

You say you have installed a couple stoves. That's great I have installed hundreds and been to dozens of classes from different manufacturers and professional organizations. What training do you have?

 

[hoot]

If both the fireplace manufacturer and insert manufacturer say it's ok obviously it's ok. But in the majority of cases the fireplace manufacturer doesn't ok it. I don't know if it's safe or not. No one does because it hasn't been tested. That is why I didn't say anything about safety I talked about the legality of it. I really don't care what other installers are willing to do I care what the manuals say. I care what the csia ncsg nfi and absolutely every other professional organization in the field has to say about it and the liability risks involved. You do whatever you want to do but don't go around telling people something is fine to do when it clearly is not allowed by code.

You say you have installed a couple stoves. That's great I have installed hundreds and been to dozens of classes from different manufacturers and professional organizations. What training do you have?

I never said don't follow code. I'm all about safety. I don't care if you installed a thousand stoves. Yes it's complicated but in some ways it's not if you understand the industry practices. Those who are Saturday night mechanics should leave it to the pros. And even then some pros are Saturday night mechanics. I've seen it. I worked for an installer.

 

[bholler]

I never said don't follow code. I'm all about safety. I don't care if you installed a thousand stoves. Yes it's complicated but in some ways it's not if you understand the industry practices. Those who are Saturday night mechanics should leave it to the pros. And even then some pros are Saturday night mechanics. I've seen it. I worked for an installer.

Ok so stop telling people it's fine to do this unless both the fireplace manufacturer and insert manufacturer sign off on it

 

[hoot]

Unless both the fireplace manufacturer and insert manufacturer sign off on it, don't do it.