Advice needed

[Dix]

And don't mind Dune and his current foe, that's an Ash Can topic if ever I saw one ;-P

Umm, thanks? Actualy Eileen, it is more of a Green Room, topic, it has been covered there many times in the past.

Actually, Dune, I didn't think that this was an appropriate thread to continue that topic.


The woman is trying to heat her home. She needs help. We're here. It's what we do.


I did, actually think you would appreciate the "current foe". My bad.


HH still needs to heat her house.............

 

[Dune]

And don't mind Dune and his current foe, that's an Ash Can topic if ever I saw one ;-P

Umm, thanks? Actualy Eileen, it is more of a Green Room, topic, it has been covered there many times in the past.

Actually, Dune, I didn't think that this was an appropriate thread to continue that topic.


The woman is trying to heat her home. She needs help. We're here. It's what we do.


I did, actually think you would appreciate the "current foe". My bad.


HH still needs to heat her house.............

Sorry Eileen, I wasn't trying to be troublesome.

 

[snowleopard]

bbnbn

Buying the wood was a smart move, I'd get more, myself. I would if I could find more, I think I'm a bit late The price is what it is for what it is. It's still wayyyy cheaper than oil. It's money in the bank, if wood is your final decision. If it is not, you'll use the wood to get a coal stove going, so it's a win/win. That was my thought, wood is way cheaper than oil, even if I have to buy it rather than process it. I can't quite understand why some insist that you must process the wood or forget wood burning. I'm not trying to be belligerent in that statement, I really don't understand. And, you're right, if things don't work out, I can always resell the wood.

No, buying wood ROCKS! It's so cool. I've been roundly criticized for purchasing firewood by someone who's mind is made up (don't confuse him with the facts) for having purchased firewood. He and my son took three days and several miles on the truck to collect 1/2 cord of wood. I just found a line on green birch (birch is the good stuff here--opiate of the wood junky masses), delivered, split, and stacked for $160 a cord, cut to length.

Three cords of that would constitute a winter's supply of the top-quality fuel, supplemented by a couple of cords of seasoned poplar that's available for picking up on my property, a couple of half-days of effort for me and my kids. Fuel oil at today's prices would run me about $3500 to heat this place for a year. I'm having a really hard time following his reasoning in seeing how a) gathering it myself would make sense, or b) burning fuel oil as a primary heater would make sense. I had plans to buy a logging truck load of nine cords for $1700, and at that I'd have been money ahead. At this price, I'm money ahead and at least a week of my life that I can turn to other things. Fella even told me who in town's got pallets. I'm turning cartwheels and keeping all my crossables crossed at the same time, and a fine trick that is! If this works out, I'm in luck.

If anyone tells you not to buy wood, you just turn the 'hood loose on 'em. We'll settle that up quick enough. As a matter of fact, I'd feel more comfortable seeing you go into this if you had your first winter's wood supply bought, split, stacked and covered. I think that would take a whole lot of the stress out of this, and we could get back to the interesting discussion of which stove you're going to get.



I like the idea that a coal stove or a wood stove will give you heat in a power failure, whereas a pellt stove would not, an issue to think about considering where you live. Yes, we have been known to lose power for days at a time and it is scary in the winter when that happens.

That makes this all the more critical, esp. if you have someone in the house with chronic health issues. I agree that a pellet stove just doesn't give you that measure of independence, especially since you're depending upon a pellet supply from someone else. Aforementioned-and-unnamed critic has a best friend who said that instead of getting a woodstove for a backup, I should get a generator to run my boiler off of. I chose to go with the stove, good thing, as that generator would have done me a fat lot of good in January when the boiler blew.


Again, welcome to the forums , hope we're helping Most definitely you are. I have thought and thought about options to take for years and yet you guys are coming up with more for me to consider, which is good!

[/quote] We can also help you with the wood purchasing process if you are interested in learning from other people's mistakes--since life is too short to make them all yourself. Let us know.

 

[HollowHill]

bbnbn

color=purple] We can also help you with the wood purchasing process if you are interested in learning from other people's mistakes--since life is too short to make them all yourself. Let us know. [/color]

Just heard back from my logger and he can't come over and cut, so I will be buying, so, yes indeed, any advise you can give on purchasing would be appreciated! My first question, I've talked to a few sellers and some have wood that has been down in log form for a year and some who will be cutting the wood down now, with the "seasoned" (down in log form) slightly higher in price. Is that worth it, in other words, will the wood have gotten a head start on seasoning/drying because its been down for a year? My next question is someone is advertising delivery of a pickup load, contending that this will be 2 face cords or more, does that seem accurate? Is a pickup load somewhere around 2 face cord? Thanks.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

It depends upon the pickup and how it is loaded. Is it stacked? Thrown in loose? What kind of wood is it? And being down in log form does not mean too much. We count drying time only after it has been cut to length and split then stacked. Once the wood is split then you have surface exposed to air. Before it is split, only the ends will dry because of the bark holding in the moisture.

Again, I like to stress the type of wood you are buying. Is it oak? Is it maple? Hard maple or soft? Ash? Hickory? Poplar? Pine? etc., etc. There is a big difference in types of wood. There are many charts available on the Internet to see how many btu's are in various types of wood but unfortunately, not many know all the types of wood when they see it. Shoot, I was a logger and even a sawyer and a farmer and there are many I still have a problem identifying! And I've been at this game for a year or two or three or........


Have you considered purchasing a truck load of logs? They would dump them in your yard or wherever you want it and then it would only be a case of cutting and splitting. Many do that and it can work out great. It might even be a way to get that youngun up and at the job! Or maybe someone would stop in and help out on the cutting some day.

 

[HollowHill]

Backwoods, the seller with the downed logs is selling maple (sugar and silver) and some ash. He is willing to split it small (3 - 6") and deliver it before the end of May, $65 a face cord delivered. So far this has been the best I've been able to come up with. I'd really like to have the wood stacked by Memorial Day.

I am considering getting a load of logs later this summer, when my bank account recovers for next year's supply, but I don't think it's feasible for this year's supply, not enough time to get it processed.

 

[snowleopard]

Just heard back from my logger and he can't come over and cut, so I will be buying, so, yes indeed, any advise you can give on purchasing would be appreciated! My first question, I've talked to a few sellers and some have wood that has been down in log form for a year and some who will be cutting the wood down now, with the "seasoned" (down in log form) slightly higher in price. Is that worth it, in other words, will the wood have gotten a head start on seasoning/drying because its been down for a year?

You'll see people here with a lot of wisdom and experience tell you that seasoning doesn't begin until wood is cut to length and split. I respectfully opine it's not completely that simple. You can have two trees in the woods, same species that fall a few months apart. Years later, one has rotted to mush, and the other is dry as a bone and ready to burn. Factors include when it's cut (was it cut in the spring before the sap began to rise or in high summer?), whether the sun hits it, whether it's elevated or resting on the forest floor, whether the bark falls off or stays attached, and I think maybe it's even affected by the angle it lays at--but the jury's still out on that.
If you can get to their woodlot and check out the logs, take a hatchet along and give the wood a thwack with the heel of it. Wood that is drying will sound different than greenwood and different from rotting wood, although it's not necessarily going to tell you if it's punky inside. If it's dry, it rings with a sound that is music to a woodburner's ear. You'll pick that up--go play in your woodlot and you should see what I mean.

My personal choice would be to ask the dealer what month the wood was cut, and factor that in--and if I liked the answer, I'd pay a little more for the older wood. Ask them how they measure, and if they measure each cut. (Eyeballing can be pretty accurate--just make sure that they understand that it's a deal-breaker for you if they bring you wood too long for your stove. Since you don't know which stove you're getting yet, plan for the smallest possible stove you might get. When you're taking delivery of the wood, take a measuring tape, a calculator, and above-mentioned hatchet along.


My next question is someone is advertising delivery of a pickup load, contending that this will be 2 face cords or more, does that seem accurate? Is a pickup load somewhere around 2 face cord? Thanks.

A face cord is an incomplete measurement, as I understand it.It means a stack of wood that is four feet high, eight feet long, and however deep the dealer felt like cutting it--thus, an 18" face cord is going to have half again as much wood as a 12" one. Ask the dealer to explain what he means by that, or get the dimensions of the truck bed and calculate what percentage of 128 c.f. that is. You may wish to ignore the information about the wood, as it is specific to our northern woods, but it has some good info about calculating wood loads per pickup truck load. (Table is in the upper right.) (broken link removed to http://www.google.com/urlsa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http://forestry.alaska.gov/pdfs/08BTUFirewood)
Handout.pdf&ei=cYDLTdm2Eoy6sQOCkL3JBg&usg=AFQjCNFmQflXZCQGkyxJxIhyGYrCv9qf6g&sig2=8ki8omYjOVhhlBcenn4C6g

Backwoods, the seller with the downed logs is selling maple (sugar and silver) and some ash. He is willing to split it small (3 - 6") and deliver it before the end of May, $65 a face cord delivered. So far this has been the best I've been able to come up with. I'd really like to have the wood stacked by Memorial Day.

My counsel to you would be to bite the bullet and pay the noob tax. Find the best deal you can now (not necssarily the best price), and then compare it not to the price of some other wood deal that might come along, but to the cost of heating w/fuel oil. Make sure you're not counting on oak for your hotwood next year.

Better deals will come inevitably along, but resist the temptation to kick yourself when they do, because right now, you're not in a position to count on that. Once you've dealt with energy income, I recommend that your next step would be to call a family meeting and look at ways to reduce the energy outgo. Seal leaks, insulate the attic, close off unused rooms, install heat-shielding window covers come winter (even if it's the foam-tape-and-shrink-plastic kind). Even snow makes an insulator, when shoveled up to bank foundations (just make sure that it will drain away from the house when it melts.) Some families follow the sun opening and shutting drapes to allow heat to enter, then to prevent its loss.


I am considering getting a load of logs later this summer, when my bank account recovers for next year's supply, but I don't think it's feasible for this year's supply, not enough time to get it processed.

You never can tell what the summer may bring; keep your options open, and see what the wind blows in. Get a truckload, cut it into rounds, s/s over time. Or slowly process the tops in your woodlot the same way. Insulating the house, though, is something you can put in the bank.
The trick is to find a balance, and sometimes we do that by going to extremes until we find the groove. Rough first years are common, but if heating with wood turns into an ongoing push that drains you and makes you old before your time, or gets someone hurt, then it's not worth it. It sounds like right now the family is counting on you to stay healthy, strong, and relatively unstressed, and that's more important than any house.
When I found an opportunity to pay someone an affordable price for ten cords of birch, c/s/s, I jumped on it. That's three years of my primary heating wood for $500 a year. We can still go out this summer and cut birch and haul it home and process it, and add to the pile, but it's nice to know we don't have to. We may never buy wood again, but this gives us breathing room to figure that out, and allows for a more relaxed summer--something we all need. We'll still spend part of the summer bringing in dry poplar on the property to supplement the birch I bought, but that can be fun time together, not a stressful push to get it done before the snow flies.

 

[Intheswamp]

Just heard back from my logger and he can't come over and cut, so I will be buying, so, yes indeed, any advise you can give on purchasing would be appreciated! My first question, I've talked to a few sellers and some have wood that has been down in log form for a year and some who will be cutting the wood down now, with the "seasoned" (down in log form) slightly higher in price. Is that worth it, in other words, will the wood have gotten a head start on seasoning/drying because its been down for a year? My next question is someone is advertising delivery of a pickup load, contending that this will be 2 face cords or more, does that seem accurate? Is a pickup load somewhere around 2 face cord? Thanks.

I bought 5 p/u truck loads of oak back in January to get me started, I'm now scrounging as I can. The guy delivered the wood on a Chevy Silverado dually with a long bed *and* a toolbox in the back. Each load came up just a touch over the sides of the truck. Once stacked, each load was about as close to 1/2 cord as you could stack...maybe a few sticks more than a half cord on a couple of the loads.

I'm curious about something pertaining to log length wood that has been laying for a year or so... After cutting wood on basically two differently aged clear-cuts I've found more punk in the downed logs in the older clear-cut. Does being in log lengths for an extended period of time cause punk to happen quicker than if the log was cut up in rounds for that same period of time? To me, the newbie that I am, it seems that a log length piece of wood would have a "vapor seal" around the length of it and thus trapping the moisture inside which would feed the microbes that cause the punk. I'm just getting through processing (I'm slow) some wood I scrounged from a local cemetery...probably 150 year old (minimum) red oak of some sort. This tree had been standing dead over a year after getting lightening struck...what I got were stems and limbs from the upper level...a fair amount of it was punky on the outside and this had been up off the ground the entire time. Once I split off the punk the good stuff inside was like crystallized honey or something....heavy and still wet. I have the punky stuff that I split off the rounds set aside for the firepit outside.

FWIW,
Ed

 

[HollowHill]

Well, today I contacted a firewood dealer who was offering cords of mixed beech, maple, and cherry that was cut and split 6 - 8 months ago for $170 a cord. This seems almost too good to be true, but I think I've got to try it. He delivers 2 cord at a time, so, hopefully, I can figure out if he's on the up and up before I sink too much money into it. I'm trying my hardest not to hyperventilate, sure it's not a good bargaining ploy. Also played with my new splitter (logmatic wedge axe, only thing I'm rated to use without injuring someone) today. It worked extremely well with cherry, but then I came to this gnarly piece that looked like it had a neon yellow stain inside and was very stringy. Well, that just about did me in, don't know what it was, but I hate it! I can barely type, writing is out of the question, can't pick up a pen, lol Methinks I have some conditioning to do... And buying the wood already split is looking like the wisest idea anyone has ever had

 

[Backwoods Savage]

For sure I'd jump on that wood. Buy a cord and check it out. Make sure it is a cord too. The mix of beech, maple and cherry should be great. Anyway, if it is good, you could then order more. He probably would be happy to sell it now as almost everyone who buys wood waits until it is needed. Buy now means he gets to move some of his inventory and make a couple dollars. He'll probably treat you very fair. Good luck.

 

[snowleopard]

You may have osage orange, which would make you a very lucky lady indeed. That stuff has like 9M btu's to the cubic inch, or such.

I know what you mean. I am trying hard to trust the universe with that wood order. Will believe it when I have it stacked and covered, and ringed w/trained attack moose to defend it.

You're doing the Right Thing.

 

[Dix]

HH, I'd jump on that wood @ $170, it's in the ball park for what we pay here, and the mix sounds pretty good. I've become a fan of cherry, it's a nice burning wood, with good heat.


A good wood dealer is an awesome find. I have 2 that I can count on, which is good for me this year as I was not able to process wood due to some cracked ribs (3 weeks to go :-/ !!) We'll get started on 2012/2013 as soon as I am able.


That stringy stuff could be elm, which can be a bear to split, even with a 27 ton. Another excellant burning wood, too.


Sounds like your on the right path. You''l have enough, but ya might want to borrow some of Snow's attack meese to be on the safe side

*edited because I can't spell this week

 

[HollowHill]

Well, Snow, let's hope things work out for both of us - stars have to align occasionally, right? I'd be over the moon to have wood worries out of the way for 3 years, that just sounds awesome.

As to the trained attack moose (lol), I have my own secret weapon - an overly enthusiastic golden retriever on epilepsy meds, which have caused him to lose what little self control he once possessed. Wood thief doesn't stand a chance, poor fool.

Dixie, sorry to hear about the ribs. I hear that is quite painful, but imagine it will feel great to have them healed once more and get back at it. I do hope this dealer pans out. Elm does sound about right, we do have that around here. Of course, we have petrified wood, too, and it sure did feel like stone...

 

[homebrewz]

The stringy stuff is probably not osage orange, though it would nice if it was. I think some grows on the southern tier and western NY, but we usually don't see it around here.
Its probably elm.

Good luck, HH. Even if that stuff wasn't split a while back, cherry dries fairly fast. Beech, somewhat quickly, and maple less so.

 

[snowleopard]

I'm just getting through processing (I'm slow) some wood I scrounged from a local cemetery...probably 150 year old (minimum) red oak of some sort. This tree had been standing dead over a year after getting lightening struck...what I got were stems and limbs from the upper level...a fair amount of it was punky on the outside and this had been up off the ground the entire time. Once I split off the punk the good stuff inside was like crystallized honey or something....heavy and still wet. I have the punky stuff that I split off the rounds set aside for the firepit outside.

FWIW,
Ed

Lightening-killed red oak from the local cemetary? That sounds like good wood to burn around the firepit when you're telling the stories that start out, "It was a dark and stormy night. . . "

 

[snowleopard]

Well, Snow, let's hope things work out for both of us - stars have to align occasionally, right? I'd be over the moon to have wood worries out of the way for 3 years, that just sounds awesome.

As to the trained attack moose (lol), I have my own secret weapon - an overly enthusiastic golden retriever on epilepsy meds, which have caused him to lose what little self control he once possessed. Wood thief doesn't stand a chance, poor fool.

Dixie, sorry to hear about the ribs. I hear that is quite painful, but imagine it will feel great to have them healed once more and get back at it. I do hope this dealer pans out. Elm does sound about right, we do have that around here. Of course, we have petrified wood, too, and it sure did feel like stone.

When I was zooming home the other day to get my truck so I could grab some pallets, I passed a fuel oil truck headed the other direction. It reminded me of what all the push was about, why I was doing this. I've been thinking about the cool springs when winter ran on and on, and I'd be fretting a bit about getting low on fuel, planning ahead for my next delivery. Nice to not feel so pressed about that. I still hope to get my boiler repaired, and fill up the tanks--but then I expect that to last for several years instead of one winter.

I laugh every time I picture your Golden knocking a thief down and attacking him with slobber-licks until pure joy overrides the meds and he goes into grand mal.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Well, today I contacted a firewood dealer who was offering cords of mixed beech, maple, and cherry that was cut and split 6 - 8 months ago for $170 a cord. This seems almost too good to be true, but I think I've got to try it. He delivers 2 cord at a time, so, hopefully, I can figure out if he's on the up and up before I sink too much money into it. I'm trying my hardest not to hyperventilate, sure it's not a good bargaining ploy. Also played with my new splitter (logmatic wedge axe, only thing I'm rated to use without injuring someone) today. It worked extremely well with cherry, but then I came to this gnarly piece that looked like it had a neon yellow stain inside and was very stringy. Well, that just about did me in, don't know what it was, but I hate it! I can barely type, writing is out of the question, can't pick up a pen, lol Methinks I have some conditioning to do... And buying the wood already split is looking like the wisest idea anyone has ever had

Does this mean you've ruled out a coal stove?

 

[HollowHill]

Well, today I contacted a firewood dealer who was offering cords of mixed beech, maple, and cherry that was cut and split 6 - 8 months ago for $170 a cord. This seems almost too good to be true, but I think I've got to try it. He delivers 2 cord at a time, so, hopefully, I can figure out if he's on the up and up before I sink too much money into it. I'm trying my hardest not to hyperventilate, sure it's not a good bargaining ploy. Also played with my new splitter (logmatic wedge axe, only thing I'm rated to use without injuring someone) today. It worked extremely well with cherry, but then I came to this gnarly piece that looked like it had a neon yellow stain inside and was very stringy. Well, that just about did me in, don't know what it was, but I hate it! I can barely type, writing is out of the question, can't pick up a pen, lol Methinks I have some conditioning to do... And buying the wood already split is looking like the wisest idea anyone has ever had

Does this mean you've ruled out a coal stove?

It's on the back burner, but not ruled out.