Advice needed, go new or fix what I have

[Grave digger]

Hi all, I’m hoping to get some advice. I purchased a 2 floor, 2,400sqft home last fall with a hearthstone Clydesdale 8490 insert. The owner told me he always dreamed of having a brick fireplace so he started with that and decided he didn’t want it after all and had the insert put in. They put a pipe up the chimney with what I’m guessing is just a single walled flex pipe? As far as a cap I’d barely call it a cap. It has no damper or mesh to stop critters.
After trying out the fireplace I didn’t feel I was getting the heat out of the unit I was expecting plus the fan was clanging. I replaced the fans and still wasn’t impressed. So I spoke with someone and they said seal up around the unit well and get another fan behind the unit and slide the insert forward a little bit to maximize the heat off the back of the unit. This helped a lot get more heat into the home but still doesn’t seem great. But when doing this I created a new problem. When a fire isn’t going the fan is believe is pulling smoke from the fireplace and setting off the carbon monoxide detectors. Plus this thing burns wood like crazy in my eyes. And finally the last issue the last home owner warned me that he’s had backdraft or down draft issues that push smoke back into the house. I didn’t experience this until the other night. It was warm during the day and at night temps dropped fast. I’m not sure what happened but everything started off great next thing I knew I had smoke coming in. And the smoke was coming in from all around the insert. Back, bottom, top. I believe these units are built in multiple pieces but it’s far from airtight. Plus side is I know the door seal I installed last season is good because that was the only place smoke wasn’t going from.

So after all that info here’s the questions.
1. Do I just replace the unit for something newer? Higher btu, more efficient and if so what would you recommend?
2. Do I install a chimney exhaust fan to help with downdraft or something with a damper?
3. Should I just fix the unit and what should I do to fix it?
4. Finally, Should I get a life insurance policy asap?

If you’ve made it this far reading and haven’t said omg this guys a lost cause I say thank you.

 

[EbS-P]

I would
1 get a professional cleaning and inspection
2 get a moisture meter (check on a fresh split face at room temp you want 20% or less)

3 install a block off plate and insulate above and around the insert if it’s an exterior chimney.

 

[Grave digger]

I would
1 get a professional cleaning and inspection
2 get a moisture meter (check on a fresh split face at room temp you want 20% or less)

3 install a block off plate and insulate above and around the insert if it’s an exterior chimney.

Thanks for the reply, I had it inspected and cleaned when we purchased the house. Worst $800 I’ve ever spent. I payed for the full deal camera inspection and all. Only knowledge I got was don’t hire them again. They broke the 2 parts and left me with having to fix it. They were highly rated as well, Go figure. I can hire someone else but scared of the same nightmare.

In the beginning I wasn’t checking moisture levels. Learned that mistake fast and no longer an issue.

The block off plate part I’m not sure if we are talking about the same thing. But I think I got that. So I put insulation everywhere I could then took sheet metal and made an insert behind and around the chimney pipe of the fireplace insert.

 

[all night moe]

Pictures would help us diagnose your troubles.
How tall is your chimney?
How are you measuring moisture? It should be done on a fresh split and not the end grain.

 

[Grave digger]

Pictures would help us diagnose your troubles.
How tall is your chimney?
How are you measuring moisture? It should be done on a fresh split and not the end grain.

The chimney is about 30’.

I’m using a protimeter surveymaster dual function moisture meter. Complete overkill for checking firewood but I use it on other work. I use the pinless to check ever piece since it’s fast and spot check with the pins. I’ve been keeping it under the 20%. More like 16 otherwise I toss it back to the pile.

 

[kborndale]

When you check the the wood are you getting an ax and resplitting the wood to check the inside of it? If not you are not getting an accurate reading. The outside of the wood showing 16-20% means your wood is likely well over 25%.

 

[stoveliker]

Chimney is certainly tall enough, cap is not a big deal. Screen is not necessary unless you do get critters in.

How's the lay of the land. Hills, tall trees nearby?
Wind curls down after passing a tall object and that could lead to downdrafts.


I'd pull out the unit and see if the liner is properly connected to the exhaust of the insert.

 

[EbS-P]

And 30’ it probably it is over drafting. Do you get gentle secondary combustion flames.

 

[Grave digger]

Chimney is certainly tall enough, cap is not a big deal. Screen is not necessary unless you do get critters in.

How's the lay of the land. Hills, tall trees nearby?
Wind curls down after passing a tall object and that could lead to downdrafts.


I'd pull out the unit and see if the liner is properly connected to the exhaust of the insert.

Yea I’m concerned about the land part. Directly behind the house we have a hill. A stone drop off. I was thinking that might be some of the issue. That’s why I was thinking the chimney exhaust fan for when downdraft is an issue I could just turn it on to suck it out. I don’t know enough about them yet but apparently you don’t always have to have it on when using the fireplace.

I’ll definitely pull the unit again and check the exhaust. Thank you for the advice

 

[stoveliker]

There should be no chimney exhaust fan. The box should be sealed and a fan running air around the he box to provide warm air for the room.

 

[Grave digger]

And 30’ it probably it is over drafting. Do you get gentle secondary combustion flames.

Yea gentle secondary.

 

[stoveliker]

Land: see if a correlation with wind direction exists.

Still, gentle secondaries at a 30ft flue is strange. It should be going good.
Hence the moisture questions; are you seeing consistent smoke or suddenly and then it dies down?
I.e. back puffing?

 

[Grave digger]

There should be no chimney exhaust fan. The box should be sealed and a fan running air around the he box to provide warm air for the roo

Just to clarify I’m talking about an exhaust fan to replace the chimney cap. Just to make sure I have updraft. Like this https://gemimarket.us/chimney-fan/1...4wLjA.#/57-external_chimney_diameter-12_cm_47

As far as fans I have the original fans up front and another fan in the back of the unit to get additional heat off the back. Since adding the additional fan I get much more heat into the house. It’s mainly the carbon monoxide and downdraft issues

 

[Grave digger]

Land: see if a correlation with wind direction exists.

Still, gentle secondaries at a 30ft flue is strange. It should be going good.
Hence the moisture questions; are you seeing consistent smoke or suddenly and then it dies down?
I.e. back puffing?

The backdraft issue has only happened once for me. But the past owner said it happened a bit to him. And man did it smoke. I honestly thought something was clogged in the chimney. I checked and totally clear. I’m using it now and no issues, and the smoke seems constant.

 

[stoveliker]

Were you in the room when that happened?

Your wood is not supposed to smoke like that if it's dry enough..

 

[Grave digger]

Were you in the room when that happened?

Your wood is not supposed to smoke like that if it's dry enough..

I was just trying to get it started. So I had 2 of those fire starter squares in and the fire started fast I closed the door and latched it a little till it really got going but then the smoke started pushing out not up the chimney. I tried to extinguish it but that just made the smoke worse.

 

[stoveliker]

Ok. Sounds like a draft reversal to me.
Think where the wind was coming from. Next time it happens, compare.
Unfortunately not much to be done about it if it's the landscape.

Any exhaust fans (kitchen, bath, other) going on?

 

[kborndale]

You said the back draft happened on startup, did you preheat the flue to get a draft going? A piece or two of newspaper held near the flue, or a torch or blow dryer pointed up it?

 

[stoveliker]

Yeah but he said it was going well first, suggesting initial draft was fine.

 

[Grave digger]

Ok. Sounds like a draft reversal to me.
Think where the wind was coming from. Next time it happens, compare.
Unfortunately not much to be done about it if it's the landscape.

Any exhaust fans (kitchen, bath, other) going on?

No, no fans or no dryer on

 

[Grave digger]

You said the back draft happened on startup, did you preheat the flue to get a draft going? A piece or two of newspaper held near the flue, or a torch or blow dryer pointed up it?

No, but I used a torch to start the cubes it just caught fast this time so I don’t think it would have done anything to get the flu preheated. This is where I’m a newbie, I wasn’t even aware I needed to preheat the flu.

 

[ozarkoak]

We get "inversion" days here several times a year. Horrible to try and start from a cold box. Once the flue heats up all is fine. Requires a lot of baby sitting to get things warm. Cracking the door, closing the door over and over until things heat up. Top down fires seem to help quite a bit getting heat to the flue quicker.

 

[Grave digger]

We get "inversion" days here several times a year. Horrible to try and start from a cold box. Once the flue heats up all is fine. Requires a lot of baby sitting to get things warm. Cracking the door, closing the door over and over until things heat up. Top down fires seem to help quite a bit getting heat to the flue quicker.

So if this is the case, Would that chimney fan solve the problem. Or are chimney fans not even recommended for inserts?

 

[ozarkoak]

I don't really know what a chimney fan is. I myself would do what I can to heat the flue as quick as possible. Top down hot fire and babysitting. Lighting some fire starters and closing the door on a cold stove is going to smoke even on the best of days. There is a learning cure to get these things running right.

 

[stoveliker]

Chimney fans are a hassle I think. They can break, get buildup, and should not be needed.

Don't do anything like that for now. Just see how it goes.

If the fire starts well, I would leave the door open a little longer; evidently you had draft at the very start. Then when you closed the door it went wrong. Leaving the door open a minute or two longer will help get the air flowing better I think