Accentra shuts off & never re-starts

[GVA]

I just wanted to check here on these
first the slower the comb blower turns (less voltage)the less draft you will
have.

That's what I got out of the text too. That's why I mimicked your setting since our line voltage was close. I ended up with a blue to white to yellow flame but I'll bet most of my heat was going up the chimney. I realize this is akin to setting the timing on a vehicle with out a timing light but not having a draft gauge I was doing the best I could.

second if you have to open the hopper to enhance the view of the fire than
you probably have a fresh air intake problem. though when one opens the
hopper the flame does react some.....................

I did ask that question to those in the know but I couldn't get a straight answer. That makes sense to me. In the long shot picture I took that to show I had the two windows open to provide more fresh air. (combustion air) There are louvres on both sides at the top inside the side doors to allow air to get to the back of the unit.
I've learned so much with the help of you guys I think I'll open a pellet stove store ;^).

I'll be trying the Mt Vernon AE. I grew up in a town by that name in NY state.

BTW; anything closer that a five degree differential on the thermistor the stove would be kicking on and off all the time.

I gotta say this has been fun. Kept me busy for the last two months.

Thanks all, Tom

As far as the stove kicking on and off all the time, That's what maintenance burn is for

I said Fresh air intake problem I never mentioned the need for outside air. But like you said it's a mute point now.
Good luck with the new stove whatever it is.

 

[Gooserider]

Update, this is a picture of my so called $400.00 hole.

Look at the bright side, it has such pretty paneling, it was a shame to cover it up by putting a stove in front of it! %-P

Gooserider

 

[Papaw]

FWIW Dept.
The Accentra Insert is a wonderfully crafted piece of technology.
However it should be MANDATED by The Harman Company that any dealers or
service personell and installers attend training seminars in the operation of this fine stove. If they are to remain
viable.
When I ordered the parts to complete the installation of the stove I asked for a rain cap, spark
arrestor combination fitting to terminate the exaust pipe. Instead of that I received a dryer vent looking
fitting called a deflector. I didn't say anything about this. The way the deflector was installed it became a collector, of backdraft.
Which resulted in a dirty burn, unburnt fuel and essentially no heat on cold nights. I had to scrape the
burn pot every four hours to continue operation of the unit.
The dealers solution to this after two months use was to remove the stove.
I have since learned the deflector has to be pointed down to avoid any backdraft instead of into the wind.
The installation was done by representatives of the store I got the stove from.
I hope this information is helpful to anyone experiencing the same problem.

 

[GVA]

So are you saying you have a stove in there again?????????? Is it the accentra?
This backpressure would have been detected if the Magnehelic was used to check draft?

 

[Papaw]

So are you saying you have a stove in there again?????????? Is it the accentra?
This backpressure would have been detected if the Magnehelic was used to check draft?

Hi GVA,
Yes I have a stove here again. I am waiting till tomorrow when it will be a week with no problems to announce it. The dealer I bought it from told me immediately what was wrong with the installation of the Accentra. I was down to blaming the combustion fan not knowing the poor thing was fighting a backdraft. My smoke stack now is a cleanout "T" 5' of dbl walled pipe an elbow and a deflector. The stove works very good so far. No it is not an Accentra.

 

[seaken]

FWIW Dept.
The Accentra Insert is a wonderfully crafted piece of technology.
However it should be MANDATED by The Harman Company that any dealers or
service personell and installers attend training seminars in the operation of this fine stove. If they are to remain
viable.
When I ordered the parts to complete the installation of the stove I asked for a rain cap, spark
arrestor combination fitting to terminate the exaust pipe. Instead of that I received a dryer vent looking
fitting called a deflector. I didn't say anything about this. The way the deflector was installed it became a collector, of backdraft.
Which resulted in a dirty burn, unburnt fuel and essentially no heat on cold nights. I had to scrape the
burn pot every four hours to continue operation of the unit.
The dealers solution to this after two months use was to remove the stove.
I have since learned the deflector has to be pointed down to avoid any backdraft instead of into the wind.
The installation was done by representatives of the store I got the stove from.
I hope this information is helpful to anyone experiencing the same problem.

I cannot tell you how maddening it is for me to read this thread. I agree. Harman should not allow people to sell this stove if they refuse to learn how to install and service them. But this will not change. In the end, manufacturers will continue to take on these guys in hopes they will sell more units. But they hurt all of us dealers.

Yes, the Accentra is a good stove. Harman, in general, is a good brand. But in this case both come up short because of a dealer who does not know the product he sells. Now, if it were me (and I have taken on many new products over the years that I did not know very well to begin with) I would have been out there and on the phone with Harman technicians until I figured it out. It is inexcusable that the dealer did not attempt to learn about his product. And to send a carpenter to do the job of a pellet stove technician is assinine. That dealer will better off if he stops selling pellet stoves and sticks to hearth rugs and candle holders.

 

[stovemanken]

I am amazed that no one mentioned a stuck intake flapper in diagnosing this problem! Lazy flame? Unburned pellets pushed off? This was a very sick stove. If all AccIns burned like this, no one would buy one, and for good reason.

I am equally amazed that no one read the posts closely enough or looked at the pictures to see that "the $400 hole" is made of wood. The AccIns is a masonry insert and the only way it can be installed in a non masonry application is with a HSC zero-clearance box. Glad the house didn't burn down.

This problem fairly screamed that the fire was not getting enough air. Backdrafts are certainly a possibility, a weak combustion blower or most likely the previously mentioned stuck intake flapper. I burn my XXV for a month without opening the door and have minimal carbon to scrape out when I do.

Regarding the low draft setting: Do everyone a favor and leave it dialed all the way up That is, turned clockwise. That is the factory setting and leave it that way. Dialing it down THEORETICALLY optimizes the draft for the venting; it MAY boost efficiency by a point or two, but only on low burn, and that is only a fraction of the time the stove actually burns. Leave it up! I NEVER dial it down.

If you bought the QF, you bought the most sophisticated insert on the market with truly "state of the art" technology. With rectified AC/DC technology, proximity sensors on the door and hopper lid and a self dumping burnpot (requiring a 4th motor) you bought the Saturn 5 rocket of pellet stoves. I sure hope the same dealer who used a DDM to set the draft on an AccIns isn't going to service this stove.

SMK

 

[GVA]

I just wanted to check here on these
first the slower the comb blower turns (less voltage)the less draft you will
have.

That's what I got out of the text too. That's why I mimicked your setting since our line voltage was close. I ended up with a blue to white to yellow flame but I'll bet most of my heat was going up the chimney. I realize this is akin to setting the timing on a vehicle with out a timing light but not having a draft gauge I was doing the best I could.

second if you have to open the hopper to enhance the view of the fire than
you probably have a fresh air intake problem. though when one opens the
hopper the flame does react some.....................

I did ask that question to those in the know but I couldn't get a straight answer. That makes sense to me. In the long shot picture I took that to show I had the two windows open to provide more fresh air. (combustion air) There are louvres on both sides at the top inside the side doors to allow air to get to the back of the unit.
I've learned so much with the help of you guys I think I'll open a pellet stove store ;^).

I'll be trying the Mt Vernon AE. I grew up in a town by that name in NY state.

BTW; anything closer that a five degree differential on the thermistor the stove would be kicking on and off all the time.

I gotta say this has been fun. Kept me busy for the last two months.

Thanks all, Tom

As far as the stove kicking on and off all the time, That's what maintenance burn is for

I said Fresh air intake problem I never mentioned the need for outside air. But like you said it's a mute point now.
Good luck with the new stove whatever it is.

SMK we did hint at this but It was too late and like we said at this point it was a mute point, as the stove was removed.....
The comb blower voltage yeah we dismissed that too, Hence I was vague saying "let's just say mine is set in the middle"
You can only help someone who want's help... Sorry to say I think Papaw had already made up his mind before even posting.

As far as the lack of the ZC box...Good catch...

 

[restorer]

So are you saying you have a stove in there again?????????? Is it the accentra?
This backpressure would have been detected if the Magnehelic was used to check draft?

Hi GVA,
Yes I have a stove here again. I am waiting till tomorrow when it will be a week with no problems to announce it. The dealer I bought it from told me immediately what was wrong with the installation of the Accentra. I was down to blaming the combustion fan not knowing the poor thing was fighting a backdraft. My smoke stack now is a cleanout "T" 5' of dbl walled pipe an elbow and a deflector. The stove works very good so far. No it is not an Accentra.

Come on Nada. Whad'ya get?? Come on don't keep us in suspense??? How's the new dealer, a lot more knowledgeable? Glad things worked out.

 

[Papaw]

FWIW Dept.
The Accentra Insert is a wonderfully crafted piece of technology.
However it should be MANDATED by The Harman Company that any dealers or
service personell and installers attend training seminars in the operation of this fine stove. If they are to remain
viable.
When I ordered the parts to complete the installation of the stove I asked for a rain cap, spark
arrestor combination fitting to terminate the exaust pipe. Instead of that I received a dryer vent looking
fitting called a deflector. I didn't say anything about this. The way the deflector was installed it became a collector, of backdraft.
Which resulted in a dirty burn, unburnt fuel and essentially no heat on cold nights. I had to scrape the
burn pot every four hours to continue operation of the unit.
The dealers solution to this after two months use was to remove the stove.
I have since learned the deflector has to be pointed down to avoid any backdraft instead of into the wind.
The installation was done by representatives of the store I got the stove from.
I hope this information is helpful to anyone experiencing the same problem.

I cannot tell you how maddening it is for me to read this thread. I agree. Harman should not allow people to sell this stove if they refuse to learn how to install and service them. But this will not change. In the end, manufacturers will continue to take on these guys in hopes they will sell more units. But they hurt all of us dealers.

Yes, the Accentra is a good stove. Harman, in general, is a good brand. But in this case both come up short because of a dealer who does not know the product he sells. Now, if it were me (and I have taken on many new products over the years that I did not know very well to begin with) I would have been out there and on the phone with Harman technicians until I figured it out. It is inexcusable that the dealer did not attempt to learn about his product. And to send a carpenter to do the job of a pellet stove technician is assinine. That dealer will better off if he stops selling pellet stoves and sticks to hearth rugs and candle holders.

BRAVO

 

[seaken]

So, Nada, what did you get?

And I hope you will be using the Zero-Clearance box. No insert can be installed in a wood framed enclosure without an approved zero clearance kit. You're aksing for a house fire otherwise.

SMK, exactly my toughts but he'd already given up the stove. Could have been as simple as wiggling the air flap! Geesh!

 

[Papaw]

I am amazed that no one mentioned a stuck intake flapper in diagnosing this problem! Lazy flame? Unburned pellets pushed off? This was a very sick stove. If all AccIns burned like this, no one would buy one, and for good reason.

I am equally amazed that no one read the posts closely enough or looked at the pictures to see that "the $400 hole" is made of wood. The AccIns is a masonry insert and the only way it can be installed in a non masonry application is with a HSC zero-clearance box. Glad the house didn't burn down.

This problem fairly screamed that the fire was not getting enough air. Backdrafts are certainly a possibility, a weak combustion blower or most likely the previously mentioned stuck intake flapper. I burn my XXV for a month without opening the door and have minimal carbon to scrape out when I do.

Regarding the low draft setting: Do everyone a favor and leave it dialed all the way up That is, turned clockwise. That is the factory setting and leave it that way. Dialing it down THEORETICALLY optimizes the draft for the venting; it MAY boost efficiency by a point or two, but only on low burn, and that is only a fraction of the time the stove actually burns. Leave it up! I NEVER dial it down.

If you bought the QF, you bought the most sophisticated insert on the market with truly "state of the art" technology. With rectified AC/DC technology, proximity sensors on the door and hopper lid and a self dumping burnpot (requiring a 4th motor) you bought the Saturn 5 rocket of pellet stoves. I sure hope the same dealer who used a DDM to set the draft on an AccIns isn't going to service this stove.

SMK

This whole thing was a fiasko. I had to deliver the stove myself. And let it sit on my truck till the installer came. I had to pull the stove out twice. Once to install the room temperature return air thermistor. The second time to check the flapper you are talking about. It was freely moving. There was no mention of a ZC box.

With the new stove they looked up in manuals and said there was no ZC box for this new stove. BTW thanks for the very descriptive phrase for the MV-AE. It fits!

Tom

 

[Papaw]

SMK we did hint at this but It was too late and like we said at this point it was a mute point, as the stove was removed.....
The comb blower voltage yeah we dismissed that too, Hence I was vague saying "let's just say mine is set in the middle"
You can only help someone who want's help... Sorry to say I think Papaw had already made up his mind before even posting.

As far as the lack of the ZC box...Good catch...

I didn't have any input on the decision to remove the stove. The decision was made for me and I was grateful at the time.

 

[Papaw]

Come on Nada. Whad'ya get?? Come on don't keep us in suspense??? How's the new dealer, a lot more knowledgeable? Glad things worked out.

The new dealer is knowledgeable and cooperative. He spotted the problem right away with the Accentra. Not the Accentra actually but the installation.
This MV-AE is fabulous. Especially the thermostat. It does everything but sweep the floor.

 

[Papaw]

So, Nada, what did you get?

And I hope you will be using the Zero-Clearance box. No insert can be installed in a wood framed enclosure without an approved zero clearance kit. You're aksing for a house fire otherwise.

SMK, exactly my toughts but he'd already given up the stove. Could have been as simple as wiggling the air flap! Geesh!

The air flap was wiggled. At the cost of me falling on my can pulling the stove out. I had a reminder of that for two weeks.

During the purchase of the new rocket. I asked about a ZC box. The looked at manuals and catalogs and couldn't come up with one for this unit. They did get me to promise that I would vent the enclosure top and bottom with vent covers on both sides of the enclosure.

This house is situated at the head of the holler as they say around here. The deflector was pointed right at the prevailing wind. The joints of the smoke pipe weren't sealed. The draft was never set correctly. In room setting it would go off and never come back on till it got to 62.

I like the new stove much better simply because it works great. It was cheaper than the other, many more features, totally automatic. I haven't had to fool with it for over a week. Two tons of premium pellets included. It has the B4 control board. If the updated control board is only for burning corn I won't need the update. I do get the freight train sound when starting up but not a problem for me. My hearings going...

Thanks, Tom

 

[HarryBack]

So many comments to make, so little time!

Harman does hold regional classes every year where installations, problems, issues, tech bulletins, etc are discussed. Most good dealers attend. Maybe it should be required. Right now, far as I know, it isnt. But I dont think its fair to require it of only one company either. I can cay that harman most likely goes to greater lengths than other stove companies in educating their customer base. Am I wrong? Does Whitfield, Breckwell, England, QF, St Croix, and all the others do this?

As for troubleshooting the stove, I basically gave up. When he said it was a moot point, and the stove was going, I stopped paying much attention. No draft readings, which I originally mentioned in the post? Well, heads up here, folks, but IF the problem were a sticky damper flap, the draft meter would have pointed to that issue, had one been taken. The manual states a draft reading must be taken as well. Can lead a horse to water, but cant make them drink. I also question ethically the dealer. Certainly in his conversations with Harman, they mentioned draft. Because the dealer owns a magnehelic but doesnt know how to use it isnt a valid argument, other than the dealer better learn to use it if they plan on selling Harmans.

Cant speak for QF, but any Harman Insert, not installed in a masonry opening, needs a ZC box. Id really suggest you check further on the QF unit....astounds me one isnt required. What concerns me here is the unit is SO new, whats the likelyhood that they just dont HAVE a ZC box YET, and therefore cant reccommend one?

Deflectors.....hate em. Tend to slow down the gas so much you can get depostis on the house.....a 90 and a 45.....seems to work better for us.

Ive heard that unit (QF) is incredible....but sophisticated. havent heard much sqwauking here abt it either, which is a good sign, and its been out a year now. Im a bit leery with all the motors and safeties, but we'll see. The dealer can make all the difference, and it seems to me like you found a MUCH better one....glad to hear it. Im sorry you had to go thru what you went through with the AccInsert. Would like to point out here though, that it most likely wasnt the insert that was the problem but the installation itself, which I dont believe is a reflection on the stove.

Good luck with the QF tho....keep us posted!

 

[Papaw]

Thanks for your reply Harry.
I totally agree it wasn't the stove.
It was the install and the installers.
Too bad but you have to take some things on faith.
With a deal like this you have to put yourself in the hands of strangers and hope for the best. Hoping for honesty and expertise.
Of course I have to eat the second install.

 

[seaken]

Please don't install an "Insert" in a wood enclosure. You're asking for trouble - BIG trouble, in the form of a house fire.

Can you point me to a link of the new stove?

 

[Papaw]

haven't seen this unit on the QF site yet.
Here's a link to the Google search for Quadrafire MtVernon AE
http://www.google.com/search?source...-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=quadrafire+Mt+vernon+ae

 

[stovemanken]

A few more observations:

Seaken: If you are registered as part of the industry forum on this site, Mountain StoveGuy has posted many pictures of the interior of the QF MV Insert.

Regarding the REQUIREMENT for training: May I directly quote paragraph 3 of the HSC Dealer Agreement: "The Dealer agrees to attend factory training and manufacturer sponsored in-store training." Is this policy enforced? Not strictly enough for my tastes, and the content of this thread are the results.

Lastly, I do not believe QF inserts require ZC boxes. It is all a matter of testing (Omni Labs/UL Labs) for clearance to combustibles. That being said, I would defer to one of the many long-time QF dealers for the proper installation clearances.

SMK