A new tax on alternative fuel vehicles?!

[Jags]

And trying to set us back a 100 years in time isn't the fix we should be looking towards

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Gas tax going up in PA, a good bit so we will see how it works out.

 

[begreen]

I agree with pruning trunk in that we really need to focus on mass transit improvements in our urban areas. For example, Seattle is seeing huge growth recently and its roads and transportation structure are woefully unprepared. The result is increasing daily gridlock and a declining quality of life as a result. But the current political climate is also equally gridlocked and thwarting progress just when it is most needed. The gridlock extends to the state legislature that is stuck in the same ideological battle as the national capitol. Because we have no approved transportation bill a huge chunk of Seattle's bus transportation network hangs ready to be cut in 2014. Recently a major interstate 5 bridge failed. The transportation gridlock is a serious issue because in the past Seattle has failed to build a subway and recently a funded monorail system due to political pressures. In the meantime out of state people moving to WA are registering at an unprecedented rate and projects are being cut or taxed at the local level to save them. Part of this issue is local. Seattlites still think of this as a small town and don't want to encourage growth, in spite of it being inevitable. The other issue is that the state is divided between progressive urban areas and very conservative farming areas. The rural areas respond "what's in it for me" without remembering that they benefit from bridges being updated, long stretches of roads being maintained and heavy snow removal which is less common in Western WA. As a resident of the state I am willing to pay higher gas taxes to get the ball rolling.

 

[semipro]

I agree with pruning trunk in that we really need to focus on mass transit improvements in our urban areas. For example, Seattle is seeing huge growth recently and its roads and transportation structure are woefully unprepared. The result is increasing daily gridlock and a declining quality of life as a result. But the current political climate is also equally gridlocked and thwarting progress just when it is most needed. The gridlock extends to the state legislature that is stuck in the same ideological battle as the national capitol. Because we have no approved transportation bill a huge chunk of Seattle's bus transportation network hangs ready to be cut in 2014. Recently a major interstate 5 bridge failed. The transportation gridlock is a serious issue because in the past Seattle has failed to build a subway and recently a funded monorail system due to political pressures. In the meantime out of state people moving to WA are registering at an unprecedented rate and projects are being cut or taxed at the local level to save them. Part of this issue is local. Seattlites still think of this as a small town and don't want to encourage growth, in spite of it being inevitable. The other issue is that the state is divided between progressive urban areas and very conservative farming areas. The rural areas respond "what's in it for me" without remembering that they benefit from bridges being updated, long stretches of roads being maintained and heavy snow removal which is less common in Western WA. As a resident of the state I am willing to pay higher gas taxes to get the ball rolling.

What's really scary is that we're not really building much in the way of new roads. Most DOT dollars are now spent on maintenance rather that capital improvements.
Given this trend we can either travel less, travel more efficiently via mass transit or other means, or suffer more gridlock and delays.
Given our societal propensity not to plan for the future I'm betting on the latter.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Im glad to see this. they mostly use up farmland and every new mile of road paved is endless maintenance.

 

[Bret Chase]

Seems to me to be the only fair way to tax road usage as long as the weight of the vehicle is taken into consideration.
It takes into account actual usage and degradation of the roadways by all vehicles regardless of fuel type and registration state.
It also reconciles scenarios where fuel might be purchased before entering a state and where no fuel is bought while traveling through the state.

that has long been the case with commercial vehicles.... just not "regular" vehicles

 

[Bret Chase]

So, how can that be implemented? I live in Maine, drive to Mass, turn around and come back. Do I then pay Mass for the miles driven there? Or Maine the total milse driven in that year reguardless of what state? What about cycleists? We're supposed to "share the road" well they didn't pay for it mentality could come to mind. The idea that I pay over 50 cents a gallon to pay 6 state workers to do the job of 2 real world people making far less money, means a total spending problem on their end. But that's just based on my own expierence, your mileage may vary.

TS

Boilerman, that is precisely what happens with an "Apportioned" plate...

 

[Bret Chase]

I understand this, master mechanic here. Retro GPS's in older vehicles? I still think the problem is with state spending, ways to figure out how to generate more revenue are not the solution to the spending problem. Large trucks degrade the road more and also consume more fule contributing to higher tax generation. EV's are cheap to drive, as there is no "electric road tax" but contribute to more power useage on our sagging grid as it is. What gets me is how does our energy consumption go up every year, faster than population groath, when we have all these energy saving appliances? The problem is the spending end, not the tax end IMO.

TS

As a resident of the same state... the biggest issue is to get the legislature out of our governor's way. like him or hate him, he does know how to run a business effectively. the energy thing irks me to know end.... as people cut their energy usage... CMP, and by extension Iberdrola start crying about a rate increase... they do less but charge more....

it kind of makes me want to pull the Model T out of mothballs and register it.... but I do like heat and a closed cab in the winter.

 

[BoilerMan]

Brent, it is similar to what heating oil companies are facing up here. As the price/gallon of HHO has risen more and more people have turned to alternative heating fuels to supplement or eliminate that majority of oil being burned for heat. This has made the oil delivery companies still have the same number of customers but only dropping off 100 gallons at a time a couple of times/winter rather than 250 at a time 4 or 5 times a winter. Now they still have to pay the drivers and have the same fleet but much less product being sold (rightfully so).

The mom&pop companies that didn't diversify went belly up and pellet stove sales have soared. We now have large scale coal, pellet, and propane sales/distributors where oil had the vast majority of the market before. Firewood is still a local commodity and is cut and sold by individuals to individuals for cash (as it should be IMHO).

TS

 

[Bret Chase]

Brent, it is similar to what heating oil companies are facing up here. As the price/gallon of HHO has risen more and more people have turned to alternative heating fuels to supplement or eliminate that majority of oil being burned for heat. This has made the oil delivery companies still have the same number of customers but only dropping off 100 gallons at a time a couple of times/winter rather than 250 at a time 4 or 5 times a winter. Now they still have to pay the drivers and have the same fleet but much less product being sold (rightfully so).

The mom&pop companies that didn't diversify went belly up and pellet stove sales have soared. We now have large scale coal, pellet, and propane sales/distributors where oil had the vast majority of the market before. Firewood is still a local commodity and is cut and sold by individuals to individuals for cash (as it should be IMHO).

TS

First, there's no N in my name (personal pet peeve)...

When I moved into this house, I was committed to K1, due to the monitor 2400 in the dining room.. the last time an "oil" truck was parked in my driveway.. I think I paid $4.29/gal for 100 gals of K1... as time has moved on.... the Monitor and the Toyo are now gone and sold... I now fill a 5 gal can of offroad diesel at $3.60 or so every other week to fire my oil HWH. Wood, in an old smoke dragon stove, heats my house... far more effectively than the monitors ever did.... in fact... I am sitting in shorts and a Tshirt right now...in an 1865 house.... with a completely incomplete insulation envelope... and it's 14F outside right now....

AND... since Oct... I've burned less than 3 cord of wood...

 

[Bret Chase]

LPG has been big here in this are for about 20 years. I *could* get the Selkirk rate for LPG.... but my usage (gas range only) is so low, that's it's not worth signing the contract.

In my cellar.... I've got an Ideal Redi-Fire #1 boiler... originally a coal model, converted to oil.... when it was used... it would go through 200 gal a week.... now it sits there like a lump... just taking up space...