A Crazy Aquarium Fireplace Idea

[kballing]

This is a really ambitious project so I won't be picky with responses.

My wife and I just moved into a home from 1961. In the upstairs living room there is a really ugly wood burning stove in the corner. There is a stove pipe about 3/4 up the wall, and a 5' area of the corner floor and walls are paved with brick and fake rock respectively.

We want to get rid of the stove and put in a gas fireplace in the corner of the room. After talking about it for a while we thought it would be super awesome to have a fireplace with an aquarium on top of it. I'm a big do-it-yourself kinda guy and I'm always up for a challenge.

Like in this picture: (realistic)

or like this: (in my dreams)

What are the technical considerations involved in a fireplace like this?

Obviously there are temperature considerations. An aquarium needs to have a stable temperature, so how can I shield/insulate the aquarium from the heat of the fireplace? (heating the house isn't an important goal since we have a wood burning stove in the basement that will do the job well)

Browsing the internet, I haven't found many fireplaces that seem to fit in a corner. Can anyone point me to some? Is it difficult/expensive to have a custom fireplace installed to meet this need? What essential components really make up a gas fireplace? (a gas line to the site, gas log, an insert?)

I also have question about venting. I don't mind busting another hole in the wall for direct vent. Using the vent that is already there might prove difficult since I'd have to have a pipe running up behind the aquarium or something. What about ventless?

Another consideration: The aquarium full will weigh about 500lbs. Would it be too difficult to build a scaffolding around a fireplace with 2x4s or something?

So, lets open this up. Any ideas?

 

[woodgeek]

There are plenty of direct vent gas fired 'fireplaces' for corner install, that run a vent through the wall--could be tough if you have to punch through masonry or rip out the chimney. They're designed to be built into a triangular wood-framed chase.

But the vent pipe run might be in the way of your fish tank.

 

[meathead]

Actually, there are plenty of ventless gas fireplaces - if you're going gas it doesnt need to be vented which should save you quite a bit of work. There are ventless gas log sets made to fit in just about any fireplace, so you should be able to find one that fits your needs once you figure out what to build for a fireplace. As far as insulating the aquarium...? Don't blame me if your fish die, but it seems like if you built something with a very high r value above the firebox, that would be that. heat shields and air gaps built into a brick or stone surround.

But maybe start the tank off with a couple very hardy species to see how things go

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The larger the tank the slower it will change temperature. Thermal mass and all that... Remember to leave room to do maintenance like vacuuming, topping off water, filter cleanings, etc. Water will spill. Were you looking at salt or fresh?

The largest corner tanks I've seen are in the in the 50-60 gallon range. They may make them larger. Try manufacturer sites for the nicer tank companies like All Glass. Maybe an aquarium board would be helpful.

I don't think it's a project I'd want to do, but good luck and I'd love to see pics.

Matt

 

[firefighterjake]

No practical info to contribute here . . . but this thread reminded me of my old wood burning days after college when I was living in a small camp across from my parents and burning with this huge Shenandoah woodstove that was sized way, way too large for the place.

My then girlfriend -- now wife -- had an aquarium filled with fish . . . unfortunately after one night with a particularly hot fire we awoke the next day to find the camp was rather warm and all the fish were floating belly up (well maybe not actually belly up . . . but you know what I mean.) Turns out the woodstove and prolonged heat raised the temperature in the water to a level that was too hot for the fish . . . I basically cooked them to death.

Funny thing . . . we've never had any fish since then.

 

[kballing]

Thanks for the info so far.

Sounds like ventless is the way to go. I think what I'm still unclear on is, do I need to build a fireplace around a ventless fire-log? I've seen picutres of ventless fireplaces that seem to be just a metal box in a wall and that's it. Would I even need to build masonry walls for a fireplace? As long as it's fireproof and insulated am I all right? (there's plenty of cinder block lying around that the previous home owner left so it wouldn't cost me much)


FireFighterJake,
Nice story about the aquarium accident. I prefer my fish pan fried, but I'll take 'em boiled.

I've never had success with an aquarium in the past. In one I had crabs and small fish, but the crabs escaped after eating all the fish and we never found them. Another time I got a fresh water aquarium for a roomate, but he decided to put it right under an open window in the middle of January and the cold temperature killed all but a couple gold fish. I also got a beta for my wife, she never cared for it and we figured it would die after we took a two week vacation. The water got really nasty and the fish turned a dull brown. We evetually gave it to my nephew and it is now a beautiful blue with firey red streaks and not at all like the nearly dead fish I remember.

Still, the past is past, and I'm giong to really invest in a cool salt water system ~60 gal.

 

[Fsappo]

No practical info to contribute here . . . but this thread reminded me of my old wood burning days after college when I was living in a small camp across from my parents and burning with this huge Shenandoah woodstove that was sized way, way too large for the place.

My then girlfriend -- now wife -- had an aquarium filled with fish . . . unfortunately after one night with a particularly hot fire we awoke the next day to find the camp was rather warm and all the fish were floating belly up (well maybe not actually belly up . . . but you know what I mean.) Turns out the woodstove and prolonged heat raised the temperature in the water to a level that was too hot for the fish . . . I basically cooked them to death.

Funny thing . . . we've never had any fish since then.

I'm guessing it was too late to Filet them after they were poached?

I think one suggestion would be to keep the face of the fish tank set back from the face of the fireplace. Also, I would install a shelf mantle, adhering to the fireplace clearances between the fp and the tank. This will keep the convection heat from riding up the face of the glass of the fish tank..
I have seen this done before with a fish tank on top of a 3 sided fireplace. The top of the box you build on top of the fireplace shouldnt be getting very hot if it is insulated. If you do this, post a pic or two

 

[CarbonNeutral]

Layers of micore as insulation?

 

[BrotherBart]

Start out with lobsters in the tank. That way if they get boiled it is chow time.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

If you went ventless, the carbon dioxide being released from the fireplace would drop the ph in the tank to dangerous levels. The aquarium would also get pretty warm from the heat rolling off of the top. It would also be a pain to clean if the aquarium is that high off the ground. Where would you put the filtration equipment for the aquarium? In the second photo you can see that the aquarium is the focus, and most likely there is a fish room behind it to hold the equipment.

 

[meathead]

Man I'm not trying to be a downer here - I think this is an awesome project and you will have a blast if you decide to take your time, make the investment, and do it up right...BUT...

If you've "never had success with aquariums", you sure a big built in over a fireplace is where you want to start? It is a big investment, and a salt water system is a decent amount of work. It's not rocket science...but you have to be kind of into it to know what is making your water cloudy and how to fix it, when fish are sick or knocked up and need to be quarantined...etc, etc, etc.

Maybe get a 20 - 40 gallon tank and run it for a few months to make sure it is something you are really into, and then use it as your quarantine tank if you decide to go ahead and spend the real time and money building on into your wall. Framing a fish tank into a wall is no small thing.

Just my $.02 - if you're gung ho and really psyched up to do this thing, value my $.02 at $.00 and keep posting pics as you go I'd love to watch the progress.

 

[tiber]

Why not just build an aquarium in the fireplace? How cool would that be?

 

[Archie]

Man I'm not trying to be a downer here - I think this is an awesome project and you will have a blast if you decide to take your time, make the investment, and do it up right...BUT...

If you've "never had success with aquariums", you sure a big built in over a fireplace is where you want to start? It is a big investment, and a salt water system is a decent amount of work. It's not rocket science...but you have to be kind of into it to know what is making your water cloudy and how to fix it, when fish are sick or knocked up and need to be quarantined...etc, etc, etc.

Maybe get a 20 - 40 gallon tank and run it for a few months to make sure it is something you are really into, and then use it as your quarantine tank if you decide to go ahead and spend the real time and money building on into your wall. Framing a fish tank into a wall is no small thing.

Just my $.02 - if you're gung ho and really psyched up to do this thing, value my $.02 at $.00 and keep posting pics as you go I'd love to watch the progress.

Always someone trying to spoil the party, but I agree with you.

 

[BrotherBart]

I am envisioning a little hammer on a chain attached to a sign on the aquarium that says "Break glass in case of chimney fire.".

 

[kballing]

@meathead

I agree with you. I understand that this is quite a commitment. I've got plenty of ideas sitting in my garage that never got too far off the ground. (not that I won't ever finish them) If I actually do go through with this, I will take the time and do my homework. The fireplace is definitely going to happen, but I see no reason why I can't build the aquarium apart from it to begin with. Then once the bugs are worked out. Finally put it in place. Also, if I decide to go through with it, I'd definitely post some pics.
-

If you went ventless, the carbon dioxide being released from the fireplace would drop the ph in the tank to dangerous levels. The aquarium would also get pretty warm from the heat rolling off of the top. It would also be a pain to clean if the aquarium is that high off the ground. Where would you put the filtration equipment for the aquarium? In the second photo you can see that the aquarium is the focus, and most likely there is a fish room behind it to hold the equipment.

Anyone else have input about CO2 affecting the pH? The room is very large, open, and generally well ventilated, will CO2 really rise that much?
Good point about the space thing. I was planning on leaving some space behind and above the tank for equipment. How much space would filters etc. take? I've got a good friend who specializes in mantels and cabinets, and I'm an engineer so we can probably come up with something.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Aquarium hobbyist use CO2 in reactors do drop ph so that calcium based media will dissolve. Tanks are hard to keep in the winter in some homes just because the lack of fresh air ventilation. pH is hard to sustain in a normal environment without an appliance creating co2. It depends on what you want to keep. IF you keep salt water with hard and soft corals, or sensitive fish, a pH of 8.0+ is going to be hard to maintain with out good ventaltion in the home. The tank will stabalize around 7.8-7.7 in the winter with out the use of a vent free. I would imagine the vent free unit will drop it down to the 7.0 range nuking everything in the tank. Easy to keep critters can't handle a pH that low. You can do additives to bring the pH up, but those additives also jack with calcium/alk balance. All this is moot if you stay away from vent free.

The amount of space you need for filtration completly depends on what you are doing for a aquarium, what are you thinking of setting up?

 

[kballing]

I'm not exactly sure the species I would want, but since this would be my first SW aquarium, I'm giong to have to start with the very basics. The tank I am envisioning has a 48"x24" face and fits into a corner like I described, with some space behind it. With those dimensions it's about 50-60 gal. I'll probably start with clowns or damsels, although in the future I'd like to add some invertebrates and bigger/more exotic fish.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

OK. Stay away from damsles. they will not play well with others.
Get a chiller, you can find them on craigs list for a deal sometimes. You will need to keep the aquarium below 78* during the burn season.
To make the aquarium look the best it can, its best to run a sump remotly. This keeps equipment out of the aquarium and looking clean. The sump should be large enough to hold a skimmer, and a refugium.
Get a reef ready tank. You want the overflows to be internal, not external. IF a external overflow fails, then you fireplace will be full of salt water.
Leave enough room on top of the tank for high intensity discharge lighting, thats the type of lighting needed once you get into corals, clams etc. You want the lights to be at least 12" off of the tank top.

Make a account of www.reefcentral.com and read read read. So much information there. They also host club forums, and clubs are the best place to get advice, livestock, used equipment etc. This is probably the most important tip to follow up on.

 

[argus66]

i agree u will need a chiller 100% reef tanks are not for beginners however. and a lot of $$$$$$$$.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Here is what concerns me about this experiment. This job is going to be pretty custom and if the aquarium hobby does not work out what are you going to do for the space? This type of setup will take alot of planning and experience to set up for a system that is going to last and sustain itself. The spot above the fireplace is a hard place to learn how to keep a reef tank. Reef tanks are not that hard to maintain, they are just equipment intensive. Nice beautiful tanks have alot of stuff going on. Common equipment for a system that will blow you away include:

Protien Skimmer (quality!) $500 plus
Calcium Reactor $700+
Kalkwasser Reactor $400+
HID lighting $1000 +
Reverse Osmosis top off $300+
Dosing pumps $200+
Live rock $8.00/lb at 1lb/gallon.
Wave movement $700+
return pumps that dont fail $200+
Chiller $500+

I dont expect you to invest in all this gear, but i would plan on places for this gear if you are planning on keeping the tank above the fireplace. As the tank grows, you will need to add most of all of this for a good sustainable reef tank. You also need to plan out waterchange areas. If it where me, i would start with a tank on the ground somewhere, and move it once you have an idea of all the equipment and expense you will have. As time goes on, you will be either investing in this type of stuff, or getting out of the hobby. Getting out of the hobby is common which is why i referred you to the reefcentral site. Local reef clubs have most of this gear used on sale for a good price.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

I guess i could boil down what i am trying to say. Beginner tanks do not belong in such a permanent location. Beginner tanks belong in a place that is easy to maintain, and when floods happen they dont ruin things. Every experienced reef keeper will tell you how many floods they have had. I had one so bad once that all the dry wall in my bedroom celing fell out. My wife is still pissed about that and its fixed. You want the aquarium in a place that you can experiment, and get a idea for what it takes as far as space before you stick it above a fireplace.

 

[meathead]

To elaborate a bit on a point mountainstoveguy made - equipment intensive = space intensive. It is sounding less like you are building this in to a wall and more like you are planning on a custom cabinet type structure for tank and fireplace. If possible, sit this thing somewhere that backs up to a closet (a closet where your wife does NOT store her clothes)...You will quickly find you need at least a closet's worth of space to store your equipment, and if your set up backs up to one all you need to do is go through the wall into the closet and you have a nice clean looking setup. A possible alternative would be to build a big fireplace surround with cabinets for equipment on either side of the fireplace.

You have no interest in a freshwater setup? MUCH less equip involved and IMHO a larger variety of hardy fish that can take the abuse dealt out by someone just getting into the hobby.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

tank:

Fish room: