A confused newbie maiden

[Elle]

Evening Elle, welcome to the forums !! Always nice to see another "Sistah" around !!

A lot depends on your layout. A floor plan would help here (I'm the floor plan gal )

How's your wood supply? Get it in ASAP, drier is better !!

Well floor plan will be....open? I mean I am literally going to knock all the walls down and put supports in where needed. I LOVE open space and this seems like the opportunity to do that. I will have a contractor or someone come in and tell me which are support walls and what I need to do to support the structure, but I really envision opening very thing up. Hmm...I made a sort of floor plan.. Hope this helps...
.

 

[Elle]

If you get to place the stove pretty much anywhere you like (so many don't have that delicious luxury), then pick a place where the heat has the best chance of getting to wherever you want the heat to be, where you can enjoy watching the wonderful dancing flames through the window of your stove, and you can go up with a straight run of stovepipe (connector pipe) and chimney pipe (all of this is metal, made specifically for solid fuel-burning appliances) from the appliance flue collar to daylight. Forget about doing anything with masonry, unless you just have money to burn. Be very careful about cutting holes in your house to encourage heat to rise...there are fire/mechanical code and safety issues involved. Carefully considered use of small portable fans (experiments are useful here) may be a preferred solution to the moving heat around & up problem (one we all face to one degree or another). Heating your upstairs may be a bit of a challenge, no matter how you try it, but it can be done. A ceiling fan in the room where the stove resides is always a good idea, IMO. Welcome to the forums! Rick

fire/mechanical codes.... never heard of them I have to tell you....around here we do things.....um... we just do them. Not that, that is correct, but eh...the house is over 100 years old...I'm surprised the wiring didn't kill us yet! But I jest...I would not want to be unsafe, but honestly...the vents are already there, they are just covered up with flooring and suspended ceiling. I was wondering if one vent open would be better for airflow than two or three. Yes, I guessed I would have to experiment and see how to best move the air around. I guess I have the vision of it going flawlessly up the vent right over the stove, then the cold air coming down the stairs and into the fire.

I will not be starting nor maintaining my fires with money....

 

[Elle]

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your stove when you get it! Others have given solid advice and here are my thoughts. My 1st consideration is do I want convective or radiant heat? I have been a fan of convection heat for 25 years for a few reasons. First is you can sit 5 feet away and not feel like you are on fire. Second they do a great job of moving the heat throughout my home especially if you opt for the blower. Radiant heat can be overbearing in the same room as the stove and many have stated that soapstone is better in this regard. I have also owned a cat and now a non-cat stove. I feel they are both very effective and after a season of non-cat I think I prefer them mainly because the fire view is awesome to see. Woodstock makes one stove that is both cat and non-cat and that provides an awesome fire show. I like the look of soapstone but they are radiant and I simply can't take the heat of a radiant stove but that is my choice..Keep us posted!

Ray

now that is interesting. I thought the radiant (which I think is the soapstone??) would be less over bearing. I guess I envision the stove being near the side of the house and a nice cozy couch being in the middle of the room. I really will have a lot of option as far as where I want to put everything.... I think, lol

 

[Elle]

Welcome to the forum Elle.

It appears you have done some homework already. Keep doing it!


But....you are thinking about heating your home next winter. Realize that you should have all of next winter's wood on hand already. It should be split and stacked out in the wind so it can dry. Do yourself a big favor and not make the most common mistake of people who get into wood burning. That mistake is to install the stove and when you need heat, then call to get some fuel. The seller will tell you it is "seasoned" and ready to burn. Do not believe this! If you cut your own wood, again, it should be cut and stacked now!

Also realize that different woods take different times to dry properly. I highly suggest in your first couple years of burning that you do not burn oak. Oak is indeed one of the very best, but it give up its moisture very reluctantly. In our home, we do not burn oak until it has been split and stacked in the wind for 3 years. Then it is ready to burn. The big benefits to you will be no problems getting the wood to burn, you'll get more heat from the wood and you won't have the fear of chimney fires.

We wish you the best of luck.

yes I am in that mistake category..I figured I might buy a few cords of "seasoned" wood. We have a lot of felled dead trees around here. I guess I was also thinking of using that. I say I want to use it to heat this coming winter, but I probably really mean I want to have it in and experiment with it before I tell the oil man to not come. Wood likely won't be a problem as there are many acres of wood here and at my uncles. Of course...don't ask me what kind of wood it is..that I do not know. I know most around here is either maple or oak. But honestly if the leaves aren't on I don't know how to tell the difference. I know I should not burn pine...I do burn that outside though... I will heed your words about oak.

 

[begreen]

From what I've read...with a cat you run the risk of ruining the catalyst if you burn too hot for too long.

Partly correct. One needs to take a bit more care with the treatment of the cat so as not to shock it, burn it out or poison it. Not that this is a big deal for some folks, but it is an important concern for others.

And Elle pine is fine to burn, just be sure it is seasoned and burned correctly by not smoldering it.

 

[Elle]

Welcome, Elle!
As a relative new kid, I will share my thoughts. Though I have an insert rather than a freestanding stove, and I only have one floor to heat, I can tell you than burning wood rather than oil is the best thing I have ever done. Yes, it is messy. You will get ashes and soot on everything, but if you are a fastidious housekeeper, it will not be noticeable. You will bring "crumbs" and wood bits into the house, and have to sweep A LOT. You will worry about chimney fires and creosote build up, but if you keep an eye on your chimney and sweep it regularly, it will not be a hazard. You will wake up chilly, but will soon learn how to re-establish a comforting fire quickly. You will be dead tired after stacking two or more cords of wood, which could take the whole day if you are older and live alone, but will be satisfied with the results.
Do not buy a stove that you are not delighted with. Get the best one you can afford, and don't settle for what someone else tells you you need if you are not convinced of his/her sincerity. I had people telling me to buy pellet stoves, cat stoves, boilers, oversized, freestanding, etc. In the end, I did my homework and held out for what I wanted, and have not regretted it. Listen to these old fa*ts on this board, they may not always agree about the details, but they seem to know a lot about what is important.
Good luck!

thanks very much! Dust really doesn't bother me. I'm clean enough, but I have a parrot and a few cats that are always stirring some sort of dust and fuzz about. I am sort of looking forward to the hard work and slowing down. I absolutely LOVE physical work...and particularly chopping wood. I"m a therapist by trade, and I think chopping things is a very underutilized form of therapy .of course when I am 75 I might not feel like chopping wood, but that is quite a few decades away and God willing I will still be able to get out there and do it. Just have to buy a hydraulic log splitter instead of doing it by hand

I think the first few nights I make a night burn I will probably be up and checking every few minutes, but I"m hoping that will pass. I will definitely go overboard on new smoke detectors, CO detectors and fire extinguishers!

 

[Elle]

Lori, your reply shows you, like most of us, have more to learn. What you stated about the cat stove is very untrue. Generally speaking, you can burn a lower fire but still get the stove temperature up and that is because the cat basically burns smoke. This is why at times we can burn a very low smoldering fire and still get a nice clean burn. Without the cat, then the fire really needs to burn hot to keep the clean burn but the secondaries really help. Then we have the hybrid stove, like the Woodstock Progress which has both the secondary burn and the cat burn. Super technology.

Just to let you know what can happen though, the Fireview is our first EPA stove. It is a cat stove too. In our previous stove, we burned an average of about 6 full cord of wood per winter. When we installed the Fireview, we found our average to be 3 cord per year. With our old stove, we cleaned our chimney usually at least 4 times per year and many time more. Since getting the clean burning Fireview cat stove, we have cleaned our chimney one time. We have burned this stove for 5 full winters now and it is our only source of heat so it gets used a lot. So we have clean burning, less fuel needed and we stay a lot warmer than we used to. In fact, we used to close off part of the house every winter. That just does not happen at all now. This so-called winter we just came through, we burned somewhere around 2 cord of wood.

Some say you get a better fire for viewing with the secondary stoves. That all depends upon how you run the stove. If we want to watch the flame, we just open the draft a very little bit and there is the flame. Otherwise we dial the draft down and by doing so, sometimes the fire does appear to go out. Not so though as the temperature gauge will prove. Many times we get a stove top temperature of 700 degrees and there will be no flame in the firebox. That is true economy!

I would never have learned so much had I not made so many mistakes!! Another question that just popped into my head.... is bigger better? If I get a big stove and not burn it to it's full capacity, is that a waste? Or should I get the biggest I can get just in case-better to have the fire capacity if I need it? I will go thru the posts again and see if that gem is in there somewhere. Parrot wants to go to bed and she's getting pretty demanding, so gotta put her up Thanks!

 

[Elle]

Partly correct. One needs to take a bit more care with the treatment of the cat so as not to shock it, burn it out or poison it. Not that this is a big deal for some folks, but it is an important concern for others.

And Elle pine is fine to burn, just be sure it is seasoned and burned correctly by not smoldering it.

thanks....good to know re pine!

 

[Elle]

And just to be clear.....I will be able to sort of cook on a soapstone stove...correct? Not big meals or anything, but heat up water and soup and maybe a stew here and there... thanks....

 

[begreen]

The size of the stove will depend on the how large an area is being heated, the temperature desired, the outdoor temp and how quickly the house leaks heat. If the house is superinsulated then a small stove could heat it fine. If it's a leaky big box then put in the biggest stove you can.

 

[Hogwildz]

Well, sort of confused. I've been lurking here and other places trying to learn what I can about wood stoves, but even after searches I still have a few questions-or would like your thoughts on some things.

I have a budget of about 6K for the stove and the chimney. I can increase that if necessary as I want to make sure I do things right the first time rather than skimp a bit-but I would like to be as frugal as I can. I want to cook on the stove a little, but not for elaborate meals or anything like that. Just boil some water, heat some soup and maybe a stew here and there. I have two floors to heat. Probably about 2000 square feet total. I am renovating to open up the entire downstairs-to better heat and I like open space.I think I have narrowed the cast stoves to napoleon, lopi and pacific-they seem to be the preferred from what I have been able to read. Not sure about soap stone though. Placement of the stove isn't a problem as I am renovating I can put it anywhere you suggest.

1. soapstone or cast iron? Of course the soap stone is pretty, but as long as I can watch the flames dance and warm up some coco, I'll be happy. From what I've read, soap is more radiant, but is it enough to warm a space?
Be careful cooking on either one, as a spill over will make a mess, and may bake onto the surface. Stone will take a lil longer to heat the place, but once heated it will be fine. Will also cool off slower too giving heat off longer. Have to be more conscious of not overfiring, as they handle tamps at lower specs than steel.

2. chimney-masonry or steel. I'm leaning towards steel, I guess the triple insulated? The masonry seem to be less efficient. The stove will be on the first floor so I'm figuring about 30 ft from stove to 3-4 ft over the roof-give or take a bit.
Stainless steel/insulated muiltifuel stack is the way to go IMO. And will be less expensive than masonry. You can get insulated double or triple wall, both Class A. The double being smaller, and more expensive.

3. Can a chimney be put inside the house? Would a masonry chimney be able to go inside? Just seems like it might be a heating option...I dunno-and I read that somewhere
Go straight up and out for best draft & results. May need a damper at 30 foot. I have 27' lining here and drafts real well, but it is on an insert, no room for a damper, and really no need in my case.

4. to heat the upstairs-I was thinking of a few vents in the ceiling, but I wonder if 1 vent around the stove might be better as to push the air in one direction rather than a few vents and having air get stuck. Will it get stuck? The upstairs will not be open and has a few bedrooms, and such. As it works out, the stove will be under the hallway...so maybe just one vent in that?
First try leaving the upstairs room's doors open and see how that works. No sens adding holes if not needed. And that may be a firestop concern if cutting holes between the floors. I did but used firestop dampers between the rooms.

I think that is it for now. I live in North East PA. This will hopefully be a primary heat source once I get good at it.
I live in the same area, if downstairs is open, go large on the stove.

Thanks

Elle

 

[KaptJaq]

And just to be clear.....I will be able to sort of cook on a soapstone stove...correct? Not big meals or anything, but heat up water and soup and maybe a stew here and there... thanks....

If you are really interested in cooking on a stove top you should look at this thread:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-cook-top-for-woodstocks-progress.85894/

KaptJaq

 

[Elle]

That almost settles it for me . Woodstock hybrid might be the way to go for me! Thanks

 

[Dix]

I think the first few nights I make a night burn I will probably be up and checking every few minutes, but I"m hoping that will pass. I will definitely go overboard on new smoke detectors, CO detectors and fire extinguishers!

Lori, this will happen. It's the nature of the beast. I did it.

BUT, if you think about it, what ever heat system you have in the house already, is burning massive BTU's while it's running, and you don't give it a thought.

It's just a different fire in a contained box. You'll be fine.

Don't leave the door open, though (broken image removed)


(broken image removed)

 

[Ashful]

Sorry but that is very difficult to believe a piece of red oak could drop from 18-20 lb to 10-12 lb in two weeks, especially sitting in a hay mow. This would mean they dropped 8 pounds of moisture which would be 40% + of it's starting weight.

I thought so, too! Then I looked at the numbers:

(broken link removed to http://www.firewoodkiln.com/pdf/fplrn254.pdf)

Report shows oak firewood dried from 52 to 20 percent moisture content in 260 hours (11 days) at 140*F. The observations I reported were taken in the upper floor of a newer (1980's) barn with a metal roof, and a quick Googling of summer attic temperatures puts daytime temperatures in the 150*F to 160*F range. A drop from 52% to 20% moisture content would correspond exactly to a 20 lb. split reducing to 12 lb., as observed, as the water weight would be reduced from 10.4 to 2.4 lb.

He might be smart enough to use a scale and a calendar but methinks he has something else going for him to.... We often time hear some wild stories but this ranks near the top.

Not sure, but I've known this guy 5 years, and he is usually the "no B.S." type. He's also a pretty serious woodburner. Heats his house, shop, and domestic hot water 100% with wood.

 

[Flatbedford]

I can't believe there is another female from NEPA with a parrot at hearth.com now! Where's Gamma?

 

[Elle]

I can't believe there is another female from NEPA with a parrot at hearth.com now! Where's Gamma?

LOL

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

First off, welcome.

Cooking . . . If you're looking to heat up some food, cook up a stew, etc. you should be able to do this on pretty much any woodstove. This past winter I cooked up some rib-eyes in a cast iron fry pan on some hot coals that were fantastic. Other members/chefs in training have even made casseroles, baked goods and pizza. Their Jedi Chef powers are beyond my own however.

Size of the Home . . . Heating 2,000 square feet with a woodstove is very do-able. While our situations are a bit different in terms of home lay-out, climate, etc. I have been heating most of my house (1970s vintage two story Cape Cod here in Maine) most of the time with my Jotul Oslo. Other folks in different parts of the country have similar stories with different stoves.

Steel vs. cast iron vs. soapstone . . . I think many of us spend a lot of time debating the pros- and cons- of the materials used to build the stoves and while there certainly are some differences (i.e. this stove has a softer heat, this stove heats up a place faster from a cold start, etc.) the truth of the matter is that regardless of the material at the end of the day you can find members here who have been happily heating their home with steel stoves, cast iron stoves and soapstone stoves. I honestly don't think you can go wrong with whatever material your stove is made out of . . .

Chimney . . . As others have said, unless I had an existing masonry chimney in good shape, I would go with a Class A stainless steel chimney for the benefit of maintenance, fire protection and durability over the long run. I would also go with an inside chimney as many folks feel that an interior chimney provides a better draft, retains the heat better which can reduce creosote formation and you scavenge some heat in the home from the chimney itself. That said, I have an exterior chimney due to my home's lay out and have had no issues, but I think this in due in no small part to. . . .

Heating with Seasoned Wood . . . Again, as others have said . . . this is very important if you wish your first year of heating (and subsequent years of heating) to be one where you don't struggle with lighting a fire, you don't gunk up your chimney every month or so and you don't curse at the modern, new-fangled woodstoves that obviously don't provide any heat. If you plan to process your own wood the sooner you get the wood bucked up, split and stacked the better off you will be. If you plan to buy your wood cut, split and delivered the sooner you get this wood delivered the better off you will be. In general, short of using a moisture meter, most wood needs 6-12 months of seasoning to be ready. Old farts and myself (I'm only 41 . . . not an old fart, just a big dummy) find that using wood that has been cut, split and stacked for a year or longer makes a world of difference. Final thought here . . . firewood dealers may tell you and believe that the wood they are selling is seasoned because the wood was cut down 8 months ago . . . but if it was left in tree length and just bucked up and split two weeks ago it really will not work well in the EPA woodstoves.

Put down the chainsaw and step away from the ceiling . . . Before you go chainsawing several holes in your ceiling I might respectfully suggest giving things a few months to see how well the heat moves around the home. Many of us have found that placing a fan in an adjacent room and aiming it towards the woodstove works well at moving the heat throughout the entire home -- including the second floor. While the heat will typically be hotter in the room with the stove, the heated air will keep most, if not all, of the rest of the home warm. How it works is by moving the cooler air near the floor towards the stove where it is heated, heated air rises and moves out . . . air cools and drops to the floor and the process is repeated.

Pine is fine . . . In fact just about any wood is fine for a woodstove . . . excepting pressure treated wood, painted wood, etc. You can burn pine or any other softwood in a woodstove without any issues. Many of us -- including myself -- have done this for years. The key is that you need to only burn seasoned wood. If you burn unseasoned pine you will gunk up your chimney with creosote . . . but the truth is if you burn unseasoned maple, birch, apple, oak, hickory, locust, etc. you will also gunk up your chimney with creosote. Pine is not evil . . . although I still blame pine for why I am going bald.

Radiant woodstoves are fine . . . While some folks might disagree and I am not saying that they do put out the heat, I have never been sitting in my recliner (8 feet or so from the stove) and felt as though I was a chicken on a rotisserie. For me the key with radiant woodstoves -- heck any woodstove -- is proper airway and fuel management . . . and knowing not only what the temps are now (both inside and outside and with the stove), but where those temps are going in the near future.

 

[firefighterjake]

More random thoughts . . .

Ask questions . . . We like answering questions . . . it makes us feel wicked smart and good about ourselves. Ask questions with dealers and friends and family as well. But be aware . . . we are all prejudiced. Some dealers are better than others, but in general the dealer selling Brand A, B and C of stoves will probably not know or be a big fan of Brand X, Y and Z if he or she doesn't sell them . . . and in some cases they might be outright negative. I'm guessing it will be rare when a dealer carrrying Brand A, B or C doesn't have a favorite in their line up and be biased towards that stove or that line. Friends and family may also be prejudiced with their experiences -- good and bad -- with the various lines of stoves and the different tech. Folks may remember fondly of the old tech Ashleys and Shenandoahs and 1980 vintage Vermont Castings . . . and they may hate the early cat tech. Just bear this in mind. I still personally run across folks who think the Ashley Woodstove is and was the pinnacle of stove making . . . or folks that think outdoor wood boilers are the best thing since sliced bread. And . . . the truth is . . .many of us are biased. We bought our own stoves based many times on research and in all honesty many of us have not owned or operated a whole bunch of different woodstoves and so we may be biased towards or against our own woodstove or two that we have owned.

Go Modern . . . regardless of what type of stove you get -- cat or secondary burn -- or what the stove is made out of -- steel, cast iron or soapstone -- I would suggest that getting an EPA stove . . . a modern stove is the best way to go. While some old school folks get on here in the Fall and are frustrated (often because they're either trying to run their new stove like their old stove with the air management or by putting in unseasoned wood), most converts love the fact that modern woodstoves burn efficiently, cleanly (often with no visible smoke once they're running full steam) and you will burn less wood and get the same or more heat. While some folks aren't into the whole Captain Planet deal . . . or don't worry because they have lots of available wood . . . me . . . I like burning less wood and having more free time to do fun things rather than just working on firewood because I have to.

The first night you will not sleep well . . . Unless you are a complete fool, you have a sleeping condition or just are very trusting. I think most everyone who loaded up their woodstove for the first night and then went to bed either ended up sleeping on the couch and/or checking the woodstove every hour. It's normal to worry a little bit when you have installed an appliance in your home that is full of fire raging at 700-1,000 degrees F. The folks I most worry about are the folks who have the devil may care attitude about installing, running and maintaining their woodstove . . . these are the folks who we usually see professionally . . . at 2 a.m.

It's not being paranoid, it's being proactive . . . when you install smoke detectors and CO detectors in the home . . . if not for the woodstove, simply because homes also burn from bad wiring, overloaded electrical outlets, cooking, etc.

My own prejudiced, personal pick . . . If I was to buy a woodstove today for either your home or my home for that matter . . . at the sizes we are talking about I would buy another Jotul Oslo or Firelight . . . or go to the dark side and get a Woodstock Progress.

Temps . . . You really need to be concerned with all temps -- both with the woodstove and the chimney. Too hot a woodstove and you risk over-firing it and damaging it. Too cool a chimney and you risk creosote formation. Too hot a chimney and you risk any creosote catching on fire.

There is work and then there is "work" . . . Working with wood for me is good theraphy. I have a hydraulic splitter that I use and enjoy and actually find therapeutic . . . but sometimes when I am really letting out some steam I dig out my ax and start whacking away. For the record, I also find being ouside in the woods relaxing and stacking wood with the same repetition is enjoyable for me as well. Working with wood . . . well . . .it really doesn't feel much like work.

Size matters . . . but going bigger is not always better. There are a lot of factors to consider -- insulation, house lay out, climate, etc. but in general the advice that often seems to work pretty well, and it worked for me, is to figure out your spacing needs, look at the stoves that meet the spacing needs and then go one size larger. Far more people here complain about buying a stove that is too small for their heating needs than folks who say they bought a stove too large . . . but that said . . . it is possible to get a stove that is too much . . .

 

[xman23]

Yes, what Jake said. Well done Jake!

 

[Elle]

More random thoughts . . .

Ask questions . . . We like answering questions . ..

once I am done my homework (real school work) I'll be back!