a 2013 Leaf for the woodgeeks
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mass_burner
Minister of Fire
woodgeek, what was your cash down, not including first payment. And monthly payment.
Mine is a 2013 S + 6.6Kw charger & Backup camera. My cost including tax,title,all incentives (Fed and State) came to just a few dollars short of 17K, I traded in my car for 3K bringing me down to $14K actual payment (but I consider the cost to be the $17 for comparison purposes).
mass_burner
Minister of Fire
hmmm, dealer quoted me $4900 with a $198/mo on a 2014 mid-level, the one with the NAV. No trade in. I need to shop around more.
With the 2015's just around the corner, my guess is that you are likely to get the best deal on a 2013. The differences between the 13 and 14 model years seem to be very small. Just be sure to compare apples to apples (i.e. I think all 14 model year trims have the backup camera by default but the "S" trim level doesn't have it in 13).
mass_burner
Minister of Fire
yea, i went looking for a 2013, but then they switch you to what they want to sell. I went along with it, only cause I wanted to test drive one. When I go back shopping I'll ask if they have a 2013 silver, if not, I'll turn around and walk out.
Then again, maybe wait for the 15's to be here - rumor has it they may have an option for 150 (epa) mile range... that would be very nice I imagine.
isipwater
Feeling the Heat
Sounds like you got quite the deal. Good for you. Now I know what a good deal looks like when I see it.
My understanding was the Gen 2 Leaf was for Model Year 2016, first available late in 2015, more than year from now. This corresponds to the 5 year cycle from the 2011 release.
I got three quotes....and the two I didn't take were >$2k higher on the 36 month cost of ownership. The one I did pledged to honor the $2k down, $199/mo price in national advertising (for a stripped 2014 S, before taxes and fees).
The mid-levels are popular (the S trim is the least popular....like 20% of sales) I was not interested in the Nav system, since my phone is fine for that.
IF I expected to take long trips, the nav system would have some appeal; but my little garmin unit does fine there. As I expect to use it for mostly local driving, I rarely feel the need to have a navigation system... Now, the "carwings" program does have some appeal to me as this is how you can easily set it to pre-warm/cool before you leave etc. Such a feature would certainly be nice to have, but the premium to get there didn't do it for me.
I'm sure this 'bargain' had a lot to do with the fact the dealer really wanted to sell. I didn't go in picky - took the color (black) that he had on hand and was using for demo drives (110 miles on it, not much really). Always good to have someone ready to sell rather than waiting in line to buy. They did have one other on the offering to sell - it was a base Model S - no additional options etc, I could have come out a couple K lower, but I am glad that I got the 6.6Kw charger plus DC port on the car as eventually I expect they may have quite a bit more utility.
If you read the fine print, the 'carwings' system uses a low bandwidth data network that is getting shut down in a year or two.....and there is no planned replacement that I know of.
At least we 'S' drivers didn't pay for that!
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sloeffle
Minister of Fire
You guys might of talked about this. What type of maintenance needs to be done on the car, if any ?
If they came out with out with a car that would give me 150 miles in range I would be sold due to the lower TCO vs a standard ( Prius ) hybrid.
If they came out with out with a car that would give me 150 miles in range I would be sold due to the lower TCO vs a standard ( Prius ) hybrid.
The maintenance schedule is basically tire rotations and inspections of various parts. The only interesting part really is that they have a change of brake fluid at like 15 or 30K miles which apparently is unusual (I'm no mechanic - I generally do whatever my mechanic recommends).
I do think that the maintenance will be lower. On a related thought, I read recently about the cost of replacement batteries for the Leaf. It appears the current cost to swap is around $5500, which if one gets 100K miles on it means you can add about $0.055/mile to the cost of operating the car. So that still makes it (for me) about 33% less than gas. I'm not suggesting 100K miles exhausts the value of the battery but it seems a reasonable "worst case" estimate.
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Leaf is back from the shop good as new, 6 days later.
We are all going on vacation for 3 weeks, so the leaf will be resting in our garage, having 1380 miles we put on it.
Turns out the leaf has a bug/feature: while it recharges the 12V battery at the end of an EVSE charge cycle, it will not do so periodically while connected to the charger.
So, if you leave the car on the charger for >1 week, the car will first fully charge the 12V battery a few hours after you plug it in, and then pull the 12V battery down to dead with all the computer activity associated with the EVSE.
If instead you just park it unplugged (and turned off), the car will have very little drain on the 12V battery (like any other car), and will wake up weekly (they say), and top off the 12V battery from the traction battery. Given the low self-discharge of Li-ion, and the large reserve of energy in the traction battery, the car should be good for many months of parked storage. At least not plugged into an EVSE.
We are all going on vacation for 3 weeks, so the leaf will be resting in our garage, having 1380 miles we put on it.
Turns out the leaf has a bug/feature: while it recharges the 12V battery at the end of an EVSE charge cycle, it will not do so periodically while connected to the charger.
So, if you leave the car on the charger for >1 week, the car will first fully charge the 12V battery a few hours after you plug it in, and then pull the 12V battery down to dead with all the computer activity associated with the EVSE.
If instead you just park it unplugged (and turned off), the car will have very little drain on the 12V battery (like any other car), and will wake up weekly (they say), and top off the 12V battery from the traction battery. Given the low self-discharge of Li-ion, and the large reserve of energy in the traction battery, the car should be good for many months of parked storage. At least not plugged into an EVSE.
Wow, that is pretty annoying and I didn't know it. We plan to take a 3 1/2 week vacation later this year, will have to consider this.
Seems like a very simple software fix to me though, I wonder why this bug still exists?
Seems like a very simple software fix to me though, I wonder why this bug still exists?
This is the case with many cars that have a large traction battery. The 12v power is used for accessories and the computer. If going away for a long time one option is to get a trickle charger like the Battery Tender and leave that connected to the 12v battery to keep it charged.
It seems that you simply have to NOT leave it on the EVSE when you leave....just park it, turn it off and lock it. That is, parking at the airport for a while seems to be all clear.
I will let you know in 3 weeks.
The earlier models came over on a boat from Japan, and I am sure they didn't all have battery tenders.
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Here are some general guidelines that should be helpful. Two weeks is the recommended safe margin, but it probably has some fudge factor depending on the age and condition of the 12v battery. If you have an SL and the car is parked outside, the solar panel should keep the battery charged. Without the solar panel there is the risk of parasitic loads hammering down the 12v battery to a low level if over two weeks.
(broken link removed to http://sfbayleafs.org/ev-resources/leaf-tips-tricks/how-to-store-your-leaf-when-going-on-vacation/)
(broken link removed)
(broken link removed to http://sfbayleafs.org/ev-resources/leaf-tips-tricks/how-to-store-your-leaf-when-going-on-vacation/)
(broken link removed)
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mass_burner
Minister of Fire
what about jumping? Does it have a special terminal under the hood like the Prius?
Not sure about why I would need to jump it...if the 12V was dead and the onboard system was crashed, I imagine I would clamp on my 12V charger for a while, then reboot, then plug into the EVSE for a while. Apparently when the 12V is dead, the keyless entry is defeated, and the hard key backup (hidden inside the fob) must be used.
The 12V battery does have a weird sensor on the neg terminal for current sensing (12V SOC), so inverters and chargers, etc, should go to chassis ground rather than battery ground and the pos terminal on the battery. Don't know nothin about Prii.
I AM thinking of getting a 1500W sine inverter and a pair of clamp on cables for house backup, about $300. Should be similar or better functionality compared my HF genny, i.e. I could run my HPWH (with a $30 120-240V step up transformer) or a window AC unit (which I do not own). I could keep the genny for other contingencies or give the whole kit to a buddy.
The 12V battery does have a weird sensor on the neg terminal for current sensing (12V SOC), so inverters and chargers, etc, should go to chassis ground rather than battery ground and the pos terminal on the battery. Don't know nothin about Prii.
I AM thinking of getting a 1500W sine inverter and a pair of clamp on cables for house backup, about $300. Should be similar or better functionality compared my HF genny, i.e. I could run my HPWH (with a $30 120-240V step up transformer) or a window AC unit (which I do not own). I could keep the genny for other contingencies or give the whole kit to a buddy.
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mass_burner
Minister of Fire
What if your not at home and your 12V is not holding a charge, but you need to give it enough juice to power the interface so you can start the car.
Indeed. If I did not have a 12V battery charger, I would tie it to another vehicle with jumper cables to 'start' it.
I'm home from vacation on Cape Cod. We spotted a white leaf in Orlean/Brewster, and a blue one in Harwich, both multiple times. We also saw a charcoal gray one in a stop in Mystic CT on the way home in our gaswagon. I guess the wife and I 'missed' our Leaf.
RE the battery issue....car started right up no problems. A check of systems showed a decrease of traction battery SOC from 64% when we left to 54% when we returned 24 days later. If we assume 10% SOC is 2.4 kWh, this is 100 Wh per day of loss, aka 4W standby power load by onboard systems, with the car unplugged and turned off.
The Leaf forum says that it cycles to recharge the 12V battery from the traction battery every 5 days. 0.3A x 5 days x 24 hours = 36 Ah, an iffy discharge for a lead acid. I figure I got five 36Ah discharge cycles. IF I was worried about it, I could have attached a tender, but I wanted the standby data for future parking at the airport. Would be nice if Nissan engineering had made the recharge cycle be 2 days or so.
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