Small Stove?

[scottgen20]

Hi Everyone,

I'm in the market for a small wood stove for my fireplace.. I'm very limited as my firebox opening is rather small - about 28 3/4 wide by 23 1/2 high. The fireplace is very deep, so I don't think that will be an issue....

Does anyone know of a stove that would fit inside my opening? The only stove I can seem to find is the Jotul F100.

Thanks Everyone!

 

[begreen]

Hi Scott, and welcome. I have a couple thoughts and questions. The Vermont Castings Intrepid is a great small stove and is available with a short leg kit that will meet your height requirements. This is a catalytic stove with a great reputation. For a small stove it probably has the longest burn time and is very efficient.

But is it an option to extend the hearth and have the stove sit partially in front of the fireplace opening? If yes you have a lot more choices. There are also some inserts that will fit in your opening.

If you can, post a picture of the current setup where you want to put the stove. And can you describe what you want to heat with the stove? Is it just the room, or a larger area?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

wont the Jotul Black Bear and the Jotul 3 cb fit that? How about the Quad Yosemite?

 

[begreen]

I checked on the yosemite and 3cb, they are a skosh too tall.

 

[scottgen20]

Thanks guys - I do appreciate it!

The room is rather small, about 12' wide by 20' long. The fireplace is centered in the room, and sticks out into the room about 3 feet. Since the room is not very wide, if I placed the stove in front of the firebox, I'd be pushing out the hearth area pretty much into the middle of my room...

I'm basically looking for some supplemental heat.. I've got a 950 sq foot house (built in 1750 out of logs), so it's not the most energy efficient.. It's currently being heated by a heat pump. (I'm located in Eastern PA, near Bethlehem)

I'll give the Intrepid a look!

 

[scottgen20]

I just took a peek at the VC website.. It looks like a nice stove.. I'll have to check it out in person. Is a catalytic more tempermental (as far as getting a fire started) than a non-cat?

Thanks again guys,
Scott

 

[Gooserider]

I just took a peek at the VC website.. It looks like a nice stove.. I'll have to check it out in person. Is a catalytic more tempermental (as far as getting a fire started) than a non-cat?

Thanks again guys,
Scott

Haven't used one myself, so I can't speak from personal experience, but other cat users seem to say not. Essentially a cat stove works with a bypass damper that you open when starting the stove, or during reloads, and which routes the smoke completly around the cat. You build your fire and get the stove going pretty much normally, then monitor the stove temperature and burning state, when it gets to the right point you close the bypass damper, which sends the smoke into the cat chamber. The cat lights off and burns your smoke until the fuel is burned down to the point where the stove can no longer keep the cat "lit off". Some of the VC stoves, I'm not sure if the Intrepid is one of them, have really nice thermostatic air controls where you can set the temperature you want the stove to burn at, and the control will automatically adjust the airflow as needed to maintain the target temperature for as long as the fuel lasts. (IIRC the Intrepid is usually considered a 5-6 hour stove just because of the firebox size, you need to go up to the Encore to get overnight burns)

All modern stoves are a bit different to operate, so you have to learn the technique, but it isn't that difficult, just different.

The only way a cat might be considered more "difficult" is that you have to be a bit fussier about making sure not to burn stuff like pressure treated lumber, trash, and all the other stuff that you shouldn't be burning in ANY stove. If you put that junk in a cat stove you have a risk of poisoning the cat (In addition to yourself...) which is a moderately expensive replacement part. Cat stoves may also be a bit more insistent on getting DRY wood, however you shouldn't be burning green / wet wood in any stove, so that is less of an issue.

Gooserider

 

[stoveguy13]

acctually the quad yosemite should just fit the rear exit height is 22 7/16 if the stove was out in front of the fireplace it should fit cloud be a good choice

 

[scottgen20]

I've been doing some internet research and I see that there are (or were) two versions of the Intrepid - a Cat and Non-Cat. Looking at VC's website, it looks like the only Intrepid listed is the II, which is a cat stove. I'm guessing that maybe the older Intrepid was a non-cat.

If I did go with this particular stove, any opinions on whether I should go cat or non-cat? I have a feeling the non-cat is going to be less expensive, but I don't want that to be the only deciding factor..

Thanks!

 

[Gooserider]

I've been doing some internet research and I see that there are (or were) two versions of the Intrepid - a Cat and Non-Cat. Looking at VC's website, it looks like the only Intrepid listed is the II, which is a cat stove. I'm guessing that maybe the older Intrepid was a non-cat.

If I did go with this particular stove, any opinions on whether I should go cat or non-cat? I have a feeling the non-cat is going to be less expensive, but I don't want that to be the only deciding factor..

Thanks!

VC gets a bit confusing in this regards, as they tend to keep the same model name across several generations of stoves. There are essentially three sorts of VC stoves but not all models have all three sorts...

1. Pre-EPA, non-cat. These stoves are more or less the classic original models, and didn't have any specific technology to reduce pollution as such. They did do very well for stoves of that era, but like all non-EPA stoves they aren't particularly desirable these days. (Needless to say, they are also no longer made)

2. The Cat stoves. These are newer models, EPAII approved that use a catalytic converter to get the clean burn. When operated properly, good solid reliable stoves, very few negative comments on them. Quite desirable

3. The EPA non-cat stoves. These are the latest technology that use the VC "Everburn" system to get their clean burn. This system operates by forcing the smoke to exit through the coal bed, super-heating the smoke, into a secondary combustion chamber where it is mixed with pre-heated air and burned. VC says these stoves are even cleaner than the cat versions, but a few folks here have reported problems with some of the Everburn stoves, possibly due to install problems or operator error, it is not a clear problem with the stove design, but has caused some to feel nervous about this style.

What gets confusing is that VC makes or made some models, such as the "Encore" in all three variations. Today you can get an Encore in both cat and non-cat models, but I'm not sure offhand what the versions are of the Intrepid. Assuming all three versions exist, I would probably pick the cat version first, but could be easily talked into the Everburn, and wouldn't want the pre-EPA non-cat.

Hope this clears things up a bit...

Gooserider

 

[senorFrog]

The room is rather small, about 12' wide by 20' long. The fireplace is centered in the room, and sticks out into the room about 3 feet. Since the room is not very wide, if I placed the stove in front of the firebox, I'd be pushing out the hearth area pretty much into the middle of my room...

Just curious, why you're not looking at a fireplace insert instead of a stove? It may work out better because it won't stick out as much. Most have blowers so it may move the heat around your home too.

 

[Rhone]

I was wondering the same thing as SenorFrog. A stove inside a fireplace is not wise, stoves are designed to heat while in the open and the wrong tool for the job enclosed in a fireplace. Actually, the first people who put stoves in fireplaces wondered what the heck happened to the heat, they were freezing! They studied the problems created enclosing stoves in fireplaces and started to make modifications and improvements to them, and slowly and surely over the years those stoves warped and mutated and advanced and become the invention of the fireplace insert which solves the problems of stoves inside fireplaces.

You don't want to go backwards, if you don't want the stove sticking out and the fireplace the only spot the right tool for the job is a fireplace insert as it's designed to function there. Else, if you like stoves then it should stick out on the hearth to keep it in the open.

 

[begreen]

The Intrepid was the only only small stove I could find in a quick search that would fit "inside" of the opening. The cat is pretty easy to use, but will require the normal caveats running it - you must burn only clean, seasoned wood. I recommended it because for a small stove it puts out a lot of heat with a longer burn time than is typical in this size range. There is one serious issue that will take some measuring. I wouldn't want to put it so far into the opening that I couldn't use the top loading feature. That would defeat one of the nicer features of the stove.

If the intent is to install the stove so that it is flush with the front of the fireplace opening, then I would also seriously look at inserts. Their are more choices with inserts and you may be able to extend your heating capacity with one. The Joutl Winterport C350 is a great looker. Another that might fit in is a Hampton 3001

 

[scottgen20]

Thanks Guys.. I have considered an insert.. I suppose I need to do some more research. I do like the looks of the Jotul inserts, but I'm going to have to get some detailed measurements surrounding the top flue exit of the various inserts. My lintel is about 14" wide, so I may run into problems with the flue of the insert making it past the lintel to the chimney opening.

The freestanding stove gives me some options, as I can rear vent. It also allows me to pull the stove out of the fireplace a bit.

Fortunately its only June, so I have a little time to get this figured out. I do appreciate all of the suggestions!

 

[BrotherBart]

Size wise the Englander 13-NCI insert was just born for a fireplace opening of that size. Min requrements for it are 26" W x 22 1/4" H x 14" D.

Now if you meant that the lintel is 14" deep, then yep there is going to be a problem with a lot of inserts. But sitting a rear vent stove in there will create it's own pain. That being having to move it out to get to the cleanout every time you sweep the chimney.

 

[senorFrog]

...but I'm going to have to get some detailed measurements...

Fortunately its only June, so I have a little time to get this figured out. I do appreciate all of the suggestions!

Just contact a local Jotul dealer. They should come out and measure if they also do installations. Just be careful if you go with the freestanding stove and it literally is in the middle of the room as they get very hot (kids, etc).

For the smaller square footage you may be better off moving the heat around with the blower on the insert.

Good luck!

 

[begreen]

You may still possibly be able to install an insert with an adjustable offset box on the flue outlet. Not ideal, but it should work ok. Look at some low-boy fireboxes like the Country Striker, PE Vista, Jotul C350, etc. I can't comment on the Englander because there's no stove dimensions diagram in the manual, but the specs say it's about 2.5" taller than the above mentioned stoves.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

You may still possibly be able to install an insert with an adjustable offset box on the flue outlet. Not ideal, but it should work ok. Look at some low-boy fireboxes like the Country Striker, PE Vista, Jotul C350, etc. I can't comment on the Englander because there's no stove dimensions diagram in the manual, but the specs say it's about 2.5" taller than the above mentioned stoves.

youre right BG i guess i'll have to get that fixed.

to scottG if you wish i can get you any measurements you need on the englander, no problem for me to do so , but would have to be tommorow evening before i could post them to you (i do not have the info at home)

 

[Gooserider]

I got a PM from Elk w/ a bit more info on the different Intrepid models - sounds like if you go that way you definitely want to go with the cat equipped Intrepid II. However I also tend to agree with the other posters that if you want to keep the stove mostly in the fireplace you are going to be FAR better off with an insert.

(w/ some typing fixes) :coolsmirk:

Vc discontinued the non cat intrepid for 3 reasons. It does not have the new everburn technology there fore it did not pass EPA phase II. The second reason, the non cat performance never competed with the cat version. And the third reason, because the non cat stove performed so poorly sales reflected it, plus it performed about the same as the Aspen.

The two reasons the cat stove performed so well is the cat and thermatically controlled secondary air. When I had a new Resolute, burn times on the Older Cat Intrepid II out performed the new stove. Now the Resolutes have the everburn plus shorty leg kit option.

Honestly, 6 hours of productive heat (over 450 surface temps) is a reality with the cat Intrepid, plus many times I had enough coals to get it going in the morning. I do not remember one complaint about the cat Intrepid; except if it is too small of a stove for the area. Mine drafts into an exterior 8/8 clay flue chimney block chimney. Really not the best setup for a cat stove and draft, but it plain works and drafts well. Actually quite easy to work with. Aftermarket stove combustor.com cat is only $70 so even that is very reasonable for that stove and these cats work better than OEM.

Gooserider

 

[scottgen20]

Thanks again everyone! I'm taking in all of this info. Good stuff. It's only June, but I'm looking forward to getting something installed and ready for the fall!

I'm going to install SS liner in the chimney (It's currently a fieldstone chimney with clay flue tiles). The chimney isnt terribly high -about 15'-, so hopefully I'll be able to get some kind of insulation around the liner during the install to keep the liner warm and improve draft. I may need to extend also, we shall see...

 

[wg_bent]

Take a look at the Lopi Answer, and the Answer Insert. Also Morso makes some smaller stoves, but I doubt they burn as long as the Answer or Intrepid.

 

[begreen]

One of our neighbors has the Answer insert. It's pretty small and doesn't burn that long for them. They have it on a short stack,13', and have draft issues with it as well. Otherwise I would have recommended it. The smallest Morso is too tall for the opening.

Scott, is your flue interior or exterior?

 

[scottgen20]

My chimney is exterior, fieldstone with a clay liner. I've got a stainless liner waiting to be installed.. I'm going to try and get some insulation on it before I install.. I'm concerned about draft (which is why I'm insulating and thinking about extending a bit), so I'd like to steer clear of anything that has been proven not to work in a marginal situation. I do realize that every situation is different and what doesnt work well for one person may work well for another..

 

[begreen]

I understand. With a short stack, exterior flue, and that huge lintel, your options are limited. If you can allow the Intrepid's front to project out of the opening far enough to use it as a top loader, than it would be my choice. That, or I would put in a pellet insert that doesn't have any issues I can think of with the given constraints.

 

[scottgen20]

Thanks! I think that I'm going to seriously consider the Intrepid. If I'm rear venting (and it's almost a given unless the stove gets buried in the fireplace), then I can pull it out a bit to gain the most heat, plus access to the top loading feature. I'll have to deal with pulling out the stove for liner cleaning, but it would be a small price to pay.

Does anyone have any ideas on the price range for the Intrepid II?