Can I expect my stove to heat my 1720 square foot ranch style house?

[argen]

I live in a 1720 square foot ranch style house. It's a simple rectangle, with the "public" areas of the house grouped at one end of the house (kitchen, family room, living room, foyer). This area measures about 900 square feet and the stove will be sited on a short 3' wall perpendicular to wall that partially divides the kitchen/family room from the living room/foyer. So this relatively open area ought to be warm and comfortable to all corners.

On the other hand, the remaining 800 square feet of the house could be described as "closed to warm air". This second part of the house (around 800 square feet) consists of a straight hallway about 20' long, with the 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms opening left and right off the hallway. The two back bedrooms are "way back there", so to speak.

I'm planning to locate a free standing gas stove somewhat forward of center in the "public" area of the house. It has the specs to heat around 1600-1700 square feet. So I'm pretty sure it will do a great job in the more open "public" areas of the house. What I'm wondering is how much warmth can be expected to drift down the hallway and turn corners into the bedrooms and bathrooms.

I don't know whether it's relevent or not, but I'll mention that the front of the stove, where most of the heat is emitted, will be facing the hallway. And I don't anticipate attaching a blower to the stove.

 

[Gunner]

Where is the house?

What is the insulation like in the house?

 

[jjbaer]

I live in a 1720 square foot ranch style house. It's a simple rectangle, with the "public" areas of the house grouped at one end of the house (kitchen, family room, living room, foyer). This area measures about 900 square feet and the stove will be sited on a short 3' wall perpendicular to wall that partially divides the kitchen/family room from the living room/foyer. So this relatively open area ought to be warm and comfortable to all corners.

On the other hand, the remaining 800 square feet of the house could be described as "closed to warm air". This second part of the house (around 800 square feet) consists of a straight hallway about 20' long, with the 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms opening left and right off the hallway. The two back bedrooms are "way back there", so to speak.

I'm planning to locate a free standing gas stove somewhat forward of center in the "public" area of the house. It has the specs to heat around 1600-1700 square feet. So I'm pretty sure it will do a great job in the more open "public" areas of the house. What I'm wondering is how much warmth can be expected to drift down the hallway and turn corners into the bedrooms and bathrooms.

I don't know whether it's relevent or not, but I'll mention that the front of the stove, where most of the heat is emitted, will be facing the hallway. And I don't anticipate attaching a blower to the stove.

Please provide the following info for us to be able to help you:

1) a sketch with an "X" for the stove location
2) what stove make/model did you have in mind?
3) do you currently have forced-air heating?
4) If yes to #3, above, I assume you also have the capability to run your furnace on "fan-only mode" to help circulate heat?
5) as asked earlier, what insulation levels do you have in the home?

 

[burntime]

Ceiling fans, ceiling fans, ceiling fans...oh, and a box fan. I heat a 1400sq ft exposed ranch in WI. 1950's with 3/4 new windows, good attic insulation and r7 walls. I can keep it easily at 72-78 when its 0 degrees outside. I have the benefit of a central living room and the insert is there. Your biggest problem assuming reasonable window and insulation will be disapating the heat. I added cold air returns on the outskirts of the home to pull some warm air thru. Also a pass thru return fron the living room to the main bedroom. Its all about moving air...last the longer your burn the better "weather paterns" you will develope in the home. I don't know why...someone else can chime in but the heat transfers better the longer the burn in the day! Good luck. If it does not heat the house completely it will sure keep the public areas hot and drop the gas bill considerably

 

[begreen]

If the stove is facing the hallway, it's a natural for a variable speed built-in stove fan. But try it without it first, this can be added later to most stoves. Maybe you'l be comfortable without the fan, especially if you like the bedrooms a little cooler for sleeping.

 

[arcticwarmth]

This summer, I will be moving into a house my partner and I have just purchased in Canada's arctic (one day until June and we're still traveling on the sea ice)! Typically, the sea ice is gone the first week of July and a "hot" day for us here is like 20 degrees. Winters are long and temperatures are extreme (not atypical to get -30 on a regular basis). So, needless to say, I am looking to buy a good wood stove (always been a dream of mine).

The house we will be moving into is approximately 1500 square feet and the house is a little bit older, requiring a little bit of work, and the insulation isn't the very greatest (not the worst, but not the greatest). With the high price of heating oil (the house is heated by rads) being so high up here (current homeowners report an average of $300/month in heating fuel!), I am looking for a stove that can help us keep our furnace off for most of the time.

As we do not have any trees growing up here, I will likely be salvaging crates (brought up on sealift) and other hardwoods I can find in construction sites and at the local canadian tire (dump).

I'm very new to this, and the number of homeowners currently operating wood stoves in this community is quite low, so I am having difficulty making an informed decision on which stove would be right for our needs and circumstances.

Based on my limited research on the internet, I am looking at the Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 Woodstove. Can anyone tell me if this would be a good choice for a stove to get?

Any help and guidance anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. I find your forum useful and look forward to reading your replies.

Thanks much and have a great day,

Qajaaq

 

[argen]

The house is located in Northern California, in a cold micro-climate of the San Francisco Bay Area. Most winter nights are between 25-35 degrees. Most winter days get into at least the low 40s. There are occasional days and nights with lower temps, like last winter when I recorded 17 degrees, but that's rare. I know this doesn't sound very cold to those in much colder areas, but it's a house that feels really cold in the winter, and I think a free-standing stove located inside the house will make it a lot more comfortable. Or at least, most of it a lot more comfortable. The house has good wall and ceiling insulation, double-paned windows retrofitted all around.

The present heating system is an old gas forced air furnace, circa 1974, and I think ithe heat exchanger is probably living on borrowed time, though the blower motor was rebuilt about 5-6 years ago. I don't know if it operates in "fan-only" mode. How would I tell if it does? The return air duct is in the front part of the hallway, and I assume it is well positioned to suck in the heated air and recirculate it. But I would imagine the air would lose a lot of heat circulating through the cold attic, then returning through the cold air space under the house????

The stove I have in mind is the Vermont Castings Radiance. Specs are 35,000 BTU on High, 27,000 BTU on low.

I have a rough drawing of the area of the house where the stove would be located, but don't know how to upload the drawing.

 

[restorer]

I don't want to be skeptical, but Roospike are you lurking behind this. First question is, how can you heat with the rough specs you provided for under a Thousand, American or Canadian without about an r90 insulation envelope, no windows, and no air leaks????? Second, who would be able to afford air delivered fuel oil???? Third, even if we buy the idea of using bone dry wood, what are you going to do with all the busted and cracked panels in your stove, not covered by warranty.

The real trip that isn't ringing true, every one knows there are two seasons up there. Winter and August 13th.

This summer, I will be moving into a house my partner and I have just purchased in Canada's arctic (one day until June and we're still traveling on the sea ice)! Typically, the sea ice is gone the first week of July and a "hot" day for us here is like 20 degrees. Winters are long and temperatures are extreme (not atypical to get -30 on a regular basis). So, needless to say, I am looking to buy a good wood stove (always been a dream of mine).

The house we will be moving into is approximately 1500 square feet and the house is a little bit older, requiring a little bit of work, and the insulation isn't the very greatest (not the worst, but not the greatest). With the high price of heating oil (the house is heated by rads) being so high up here (current homeowners report an average of $300/month in heating fuel!), I am looking for a stove that can help us keep our furnace off for most of the time.

As we do not have any trees growing up here, I will likely be salvaging crates (brought up on sealift) and other hardwoods I can find in construction sites and at the local canadian tire (dump).

I'm very new to this, and the number of homeowners currently operating wood stoves in this community is quite low, so I am having difficulty making an informed decision on which stove would be right for our needs and circumstances.

Based on my limited research on the internet, I am looking at the Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 Woodstove. Can anyone tell me if this would be a good choice for a stove to get?

Any help and guidance anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. I find your forum useful and look forward to reading your replies.

Thanks much and have a great day,

Qajaaq

 

[restorer]

Welcome, and I apologize for the attempted hijacking someone is jerking our chains.

As far as heating, there are plenty on the hearth that live in coastal cool areas. When I lived in Silverdale, Washington normal Summer dress was T-shirt, knit shirt, light flannel, heavy flannel and if it was raining, something to shed water. As the temp climbed during the day the layers came off, but even at 70 it was chilly. Dealing with "cool and humidity" has special problems to overcome. Two things you need to consider is the need for regular, reliable heat, and reliable back up. You need to consider if you want an a burner for heat and a HVAC for back up, or the reverse. Next, you need to decide the alternate or primary fuel. If you use NG, LPG you have one set of issues, if you use the "alternate" sources, do you want to use wood, or pellets? These are the only two reasonable options in your area.

So, now you have a little of the thoughts you need to consider. You can decide your time investiments in gathering fuel and supplying the time to load and maintain.

I would seriously do something this Summer. Based on the age of your furnace you may be lucky to get about 30% efficiency.

Ask lots of simple questions. Don't think they need to be stellar. If you don't understand terms like OAK, ask what they mean and why they are important? I think the Summer folk here are pretty serious (and some seriously affected) so we will try to help. Don't take anything, as absolute. Pose the question twice and you will get polar opposite answers.

The house is located in Northern California, in a cold micro-climate of the San Francisco Bay Area. Most winter nights are between 25-35 degrees. Most winter days get into at least the low 40s. There are occasional days and nights with lower temps, like last winter when I recorded 17 degrees, but that's rare. I know this doesn't sound very cold to those in much colder areas, but it's a house that feels really cold in the winter, and I think a free-standing stove located inside the house will make it a lot more comfortable. Or at least, most of it a lot more comfortable. The house has good wall and ceiling insulation, double-paned windows retrofitted all around.

The present heating system is an old gas forced air furnace, circa 1974, and I think ithe heat exchanger is probably living on borrowed time, though the blower motor was rebuilt about 5-6 years ago. I don't know if it operates in "fan-only" mode. How would I tell if it does? The return air duct is in the front part of the hallway, and I assume it is well positioned to suck in the heated air and recirculate it. But I would imagine the air would lose a lot of heat circulating through the cold attic, then returning through the cold air space under the house????

The stove I have in mind is the Vermont Castings Radiance. Specs are 35,000 BTU on High, 27,000 BTU on low.

I have a rough drawing of the area of the house where the stove would be located, but don't know how to upload the drawing.

 

[jjbaer]

I don't know if it operates in "fan-only" mode. How would I tell if it does? The return air duct is in the front part of the hallway, and I assume it is well positioned to suck in the heated air and recirculate it. But I would imagine the air would lose a lot of heat circulating through the cold attic, then returning through the cold air space under the house????

If you have this fan-only capability, on the thermostat there should be a switch that says something like "heat", "cool" and "fan"...basically you're looking for a "fan" switch. You may be right about the ducts losing heat especially if they're not insulated. May want to consider insulating them if they're not already.

The stove I have in mind is the Vermont Castings Radiance. Specs are 35,000 BTU on High, 27,000 BTU on low.

I have a rough drawing of the area of the house where the stove would be located, but don't know how to upload the drawing.

When you write a post there's a button called "attachments".....you can upload it there.

 

[begreen]

This summer, I will be moving into a house my partner and I have just purchased in Canada's arctic (one day until June and we're still traveling on the sea ice)! Typically, the sea ice is gone the first week of July and a "hot" day for us here is like 20 degrees. Winters are long and temperatures are extreme (not atypical to get -30 on a regular basis). So, needless to say, I am looking to buy a good wood stove (always been a dream of mine).
Qajaaq

Hi Qajaaq, welcome. Interesting topic. Can you start another thread? This is unrelated to the current thread, but it's an interesting challenge and one that will get more responses and interest in it's own thread. I'd love to know what is behind this move. Polar bear research?

 

[argen]

Okay, here goes a diagram of the 900 square feet of my house where the stove will reside. Hope it'll be readable. The scale is one box - one foot. The Vermont Castings Radiance sits forward of center on the wall dividing the living room and the kitchen. The hall opens off to the right. I don't have this drawn in detail, but it really shouldn't be necessary. The 20' hallway dead ends on the outside wall, with the 2nd bedroom off the left end of the hallway and the master bedroom off the right end of the hallway. There's a second bathroom accessed through the master bathroom.

 

[argen]

If you have this fan-only capability, on the thermostat there should be a switch that says something like "heat", "cool" and "fan"...basically you're looking for a "fan" switch. You may be right about the ducts losing heat especially if they're not insulated. May want to consider insulating them if they're not already.



There is no fan capability on my thermostat. Almost all my furnace ducts in the crawl space under the house are insulated. Just one stretch of duct has got insulation worn off here and there. This can be fixed.

 

[argen]

As far as heating, there are plenty on the hearth that live in coastal cool areas. When I lived in Silverdale, Washington normal Summer dress was T-shirt, knit shirt, light flannel, heavy flannel and if it was raining, something to shed water. As the temp climbed during the day the layers came off, but even at 70 it was chilly. Dealing with "cool and humidity" has special problems to overcome. Two things you need to consider is the need for regular, reliable heat, and reliable back up. You need to consider if you want an a burner for heat and a HVAC for back up, or the reverse. Next, you need to decide the alternate or primary fuel. If you use NG, LPG you have one set of issues, if you use the "alternate" sources, do you want to use wood, or pellets? These are the only two reasonable options in your area.

So, now you have a little of the thoughts you need to consider. You can decide your time investiments in gathering fuel and supplying the time to load and maintain.

I would seriously do something this Summer. Based on the age of your furnace you may be lucky to get about 30% efficiency.

Ask lots of simple questions. Don't think they need to be stellar. If you don't understand terms like OAK, ask what they mean and why they are important? I think the Summer folk here are pretty serious (and some seriously affected) so we will try to help. Don't take anything, as absolute. Pose the question twice and you will get polar opposite answers..

[/quote]

-----------
You've hit the nail on the end, so to speak, with respect to our weather here. It's supposed to be almost summer here, but it's been really cold. Low 40s on many nights. Mornings have been really cold. Dressing in layers is the only solution.

I'm going to get my stove sometime this summer. I think Vermont Castings has a sale sometime during the summer months. I'm not really interested in dealing with pellet fuel stoves, or wood burning stoves. We're getting too old for that, and there's no easy way to store the fuel anyway. And our Air Quality in the Bay Area isn't great, so we don't want to add to air pollution, so we're going to stick to natural gas as fuel for the new stove.

Ideally, I'd like to obsolete my old natural gas forced air furnace (you're right, it's probably very very inefficient) and let the Vermont Radiance heat most of the house. If it doesn't get warm enough in the two back bedrooms, I 'm prepared to use portable electric heaters to supplement.

Realistically, I doubt that I'll be able to do heat the whole house. I assume that if the two back bedrooms are actually comfortable, it will mean the 900 square feet area where the free standing gas stove resides will be too warm for comfort.

But maybe I can find some way to more actively move the warm air around corners to the colder areas. Maybe.....

 

[argen]

Ceiling fans, ceiling fans, ceiling fans...oh, and a box fan. I heat a 1400sq ft exposed ranch in WI. 1950's with 3/4 new windows, good attic insulation and r7 walls. I can keep it easily at 72-78 when its 0 degrees outside. I have the benefit of a central living room and the insert is there. Your biggest problem assuming reasonable window and insulation will be disapating the heat. I added cold air returns on the outskirts of the home to pull some warm air thru. Also a pass thru return fron the living room to the main bedroom. Its all about moving air...last the longer your burn the better "weather paterns" you will develope in the home. I don't know why...someone else can chime in but the heat transfers better the longer the burn in the day! Good luck. If it does not heat the house completely it will sure keep the public areas hot and drop the gas bill considerably

Can you be more specific about the cold air returns that you added? How do they move the air from one place to the other? Using ceiling fans?

 

[begreen]

argen, you are way over-obsessing about this and getting into meaningless tangents. You have a small home in a benign climate. Go ahead with the stove and accept for the first season, that you'll be experimenting, (does this start in June when the fog rolls in?). Try the stove as it is. Maybe it will be fine. If it's not quite up to snuff for heating the bedroom area, try a 12" fan or a box fan or whatever to see if it makes an appreciable difference. There should be no need to cut holes or install a return air system. You are getting suggestions for woodstove heating that have little relevance for your situation.

 

[Highbeam]

There are many people locally in my similar climate that heat very large homes with single gas or pellet stoves. Similar steady btu outputs and thermostatic control so pellet stove discussions apply well in regards to space heating.

A free standing natural gas stove is a great whole house heater. Even the best efficiency natural gas furnace has a hard time competing with one for efficiency after you account for the huge duct losses of pumping hot air through all the leaky ducts in the cold crawlspace.

My home is a long and skinny 1700 SF ranch style house and I find that if the stove room stays warm than the exterior rooms at the far ends get reasonably close to the same temperature. I notice the cold bedroom problem when I let the stove room get cold. There's a long lag between heating the stove room and then the back rooms heating up. My point with this is that your constantly warm stove room(s) will maintain decent back room temperatures so long as you keep the stove room warm. Set back thermostats on the stove will allow the back rooms to get cold.

The single stove will work just fine. I think it is a fine choice for your application and the VC cast iron stoves are very nice to look at.

 

[argen]

There are many people locally in my similar climate that heat very large homes with single gas or pellet stoves. Similar steady btu outputs and thermostatic control so pellet stove discussions apply well in regards to space heating.

A free standing natural gas stove is a great whole house heater. Even the best efficiency natural gas furnace has a hard time competing with one for efficiency after you account for the huge duct losses of pumping hot air through all the leaky ducts in the cold crawlspace.

My home is a long and skinny 1700 SF ranch style house and I find that if the stove room stays warm than the exterior rooms at the far ends get reasonably close to the same temperature. I notice the cold bedroom problem when I let the stove room get cold. There's a long lag between heating the stove room and then the back rooms heating up. My point with this is that your constantly warm stove room(s) will maintain decent back room temperatures so long as you keep the stove room warm. Set back thermostats on the stove will allow the back rooms to get cold.

The single stove will work just fine. I think it is a fine choice for your application and the VC cast iron stoves are very nice to look at.

Oh man, this is the kind of answer that makes me feel optimistic that I can dump my old forced air furnace and rely on the free standing NG stove! And if, as you say, the gas stove is at least competitive or maybe better than the best high efficiency natural gas furnaces, it'll mean I can afford to keep the stove room warm all the time! Oh, that'll be nice.

I've got a quote for around $3000.00 to buy the stove, pipes, remote control, etc., and it'll be another $1000.00 for installation; total around $4000.00 This is a lot of money for us, so now I'm feeling much more optimistic that it'll be worth the expenditure.

Speaking of installation costs, it'd be nice if we could save these and do the stove installation ourselves. Are these gas stoves all that difficult to set up and install? My husband can run a new gas line, no problem, and he has installed gas furnaces before, so is there anything really tricky that we'd be facing if we did it ourselves?

 

[begreen]

$3000 sounds quite high for this stove, even with the pipes. I would expect that to be the installed price. As to self-install, check with local codes, fire marshall and your insurance company to see if this is allowed. SF can be a bit touchy about fire.

FWIW, there is one of these stoves in Hunter Green for sale on eBay for $700.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vermont-Casting...9883683QQihZ003QQcategoryZ41987QQcmdZViewItem

 

[burntime]

Sorry I didn't reply sooner! I put cold air returns in the outer most bedrooms where they were not before. Think of a paper bag...if you breath into it it will only take so much air. Now put a hole in the bottom...if this makes sense then you get the idea. I fought the idea for some time until someone explained so simply. The more cold air returns you have the more even the temp. Thats not to say that you will have a constant temp in the back rooms but it will be better then not doing it. Some can chime in too...do not put a cold air return right by the stove cause it has to be like 10ft or something like it per code. Wood heat is great...but it does have its obsticles.

 

[begreen]

gas stove, not wood.

 

[argen]

$3000 sounds quite high for this stove, even with the pipes. I would expect that to be the installed price. As to self-install, check with local codes, fire marshall and your insurance company to see if this is allowed. SF can be a bit touchy about fire.

FWIW, there is one of these stoves in Hunter Green for sale on eBay for $700.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vermont-Casting...9883683QQihZ003QQcategoryZ41987QQcmdZViewItem

I'm waiting for a call from the stove company that gave me a quote of $4000.00 to recheck prices, and to find out when VC has their usual summer sale.

Meanwhile, I checked into the stove on eBay. Great Price, and the color I wanted! Unfortunately, it's Vent Free and doesn't comply with the building codes where I live. But I've set up a search on eBay and perhaps an appropriate one will come along. That'd be nice!

 

[begreen]

I'd give a few other dealers a call and comparison shop.

 

[stoveguy13]

to use a gas stove like you are looking at for a primary heat source does not make a whole lot of senes to me i am assuming since you are in sf bay area that you will be on NG and that you probally heat your home with it already there will be no real cost savings to you unless you use it as a zone heat source for that part of the house and that stops your furnace from cycling as much at a 100,000 btu verses aa 32,000 btu stove coming on and heating that 20% of the house you really need to warm up because that is were you really live but it also looks alot nicer then your furnace

 

[Highbeam]

I'll have to disagree, pretty strongly. The house has a 30+ year old NG furnace. Furnaces of that era were maybe 50-60% efficient at making heat. Then they lose mucho more emergy, as much as 30-40%, while transmitting it through the ducts. By the time it gets to your bedroom, you will have blown lots of btus up the chimney and into the crawlspace.

New gas stoves burn NG at 80% plus efficiencies and every bit of that heat enters the room directly. No 30-40% penalty from ducts. Further, as a zone heater the stove allows (requires)the main room to be warmer and the far rooms cooler which conserves even more energy so long as the house is layed out at least reasonably well. If you need to run the stove room at 80 to heat the bedrooms to 60 then the zone heating savings may be nill.

In summary, the stove is much more efficient at making heat and the furnace suffers huge duct losses.