Harman P61 or Magnum Coal

[mgambuzza]

With the temperature drops below zero happening, it brings up some of the shortcomings of my current stove. The Thelin Parlor Pellet can barely keep my basement - concrete - 1300sq ft - open floor plan - no insulation - at 64 degrees with stove at full tilt.

I was considering the following options - Harman P61 or the Magnum Coal Stoker. I don't want to consider wood due to the maintenance, constant adding of fuel, and being away from the house 8 - 10hrs a day(the fire would go out and the dogs who are in the basement would freeze). I was originally considering the Mt Vernon, but have a Castille on my first floor and I am not overly thrilled with the performance and quirks of this line or product.

I have made some incremental investments within the past year on the basement stove, and want to make a final investment that will last me numerous years. They are both in the $2700 price range, so price isn't a determining factor. I don't want to buy one of these and a year later kick myself for not buying the other as it performs better under adverse conditions.

 

[wg_bent]

Sounds like you have a third option... insulation.

 

[trb157]

Get the Magnum. I have a DVC500 which is basically a direct vent magnum. Never had to turn it up all the way or even close. I live in a house built in 1880 so no wall insulation other than layers of wood siding, asphalt siding, and aluminum siding along with drywall inside. I'm actually scared to turn my stove all the way up. I can keep my downstairs close to 80 easily and the upstairs around 70. If the outside temp is 40 or above I have to keep my stove completely turned all the way down to keep the sweat from rollin'. When temps here were in the single and negative digits I kept my stove set at 85 degrees and it still kept the house in the mid 70s. As long as you have a plan for ash disposal then the coal stoker is the way to go.

 

[mgambuzza]

Sounds like you have a third option... insulation.

I looked into insulation - WAY too much for the payback. There are portions of basement that seep or leak in spring/summer rains. To properly insulate - would need to take care of foundation and in 100 year old house - not feasible. When the Octopus - Gravity fed converted furnace was in this area - the basement was always toasty. Since replacing with 90% efficient NG furnace, basement has always been freezing! I just think the small surface area, as well as BTU output of the Thelin - isn't enough to overcome the losses in this basement. That is why I'm debating between the Harman P61A, Magnum Stoker, or Leisure Line as they have considerably more surface area as well as BTU ratings.

 

[jejennings]

In addition to the relative merits of the stoves you are considering, also consider the manufacture’s service and support policies. I didn’t do this when I bought a Harman Model 2600 multi-fuel central furnace in 2000 to replace an ancient wood and oil burning furnace that we had had for many years. I now regret the choice. Three seasons ago I decided to run the furnace on oil only until my wife recovered from her lung cancer surgery, so that there would be no chance of even a whiff of wood smoke entering the house. When the furnace fired we smelled oil. This has continued right up to this season and we’ve tried everything to get it repaired, complete cleaning and resealing of the oil heat exchanger (twice), various adjustment to the oil burner, chimney cleaning, etc. We even had the air conditioning oil pulled so that the heat exchanger could be inspected for cracks (none found). My heating technician is at his wit’s end and blames it on poor furnace design. Emails, telephone calls, and faxed and snail mailed messages to Harman asking for technical help or referral to a technician who could solve the problem have been unanswered. They won’t even send me a replacement manual. Their standard reply is that all service and parts orders must go through the dealer who sold me the furnace. I of course called the dealer from whom I bought the furnace and was told by the owner’s widow that when her husband died, Harmon pulled her dealership and gave it to someone else, even though they sold 84 Harman units a year. She said her very experienced and qualified service technician would no longer service Harmon products because of the way
Dane Harman and his company treated her. The two Harman Dealers within reasonable driving distance from me do not handle furnaces, only stoves, and do not have service technicians qualified in the oil heat part. The bottom line – Do not purchase ANY Harmon product unless you are absolutely sure the your delaer will remain in business for as long as you own the stove.

Jack Jennings
Sicklerville, NJ
[email protected]

 

[HarryBack]

Jejennings certainly ought to have his needs addressed......4 posts, all the same......unsatisfied customer posting to all recent Harman posts. He makes a great point....pick a good dealer, one with longevity. Unfortunately, you can never be sure a dealer will be in business....things happen....folks die, etc.

 

[jejennings]

The manyufacturer should be willing to address issues that a g4ealer can't or won't. It'd sldo good business, as i explained in my second letter to Dane Harman:
"As the former Director of Engineering for a firm that had dealers, I can fully appreciate the inconvenience that direct customer support places upon a manufacturer. On the other hand I can also cite numerous instances when it was necessary to redirect the efforts of my engineers from their primary duties of product design and improvement to direct support of end customers with specific problems that could not be handled by our dealers. Our goal was customer satisfaction and fortunately we were able to strike a balance between direct corporate involvement with the end user and product development and production. Direct customer contact also allowed us to improve the quality of our product instructions which resulted in fewer product problem inquires."

 

[HarryBack]

and, Mr Jennings, this has what to do with the original post of buying a p61 or a Magnum Stoker? Or are you derailing this post as a way to vent your frustrations with Harman in general? 5 posts here now, none before, asking for help, just 5 complaint posts.

*sigh*
You said you "smell oil" with your unit. Are you smelling oil, or the exhaust gas from burning the oil? If you are smelling exhaust, youve got a leak somewhere, most likely the heat exchanger. If you are smelling oil, it could be dirty (big problem with multi-fuel units), you could simply have a leak, the wrong size/type nozzle, etc. But since the very "qualified and experienced" service tech who somehow couldnt find the problem now conveniently refuses to service it, I guess we'll never know, will we?

 

[jejennings]

HarryBack,

The purpose of my post on this topic was expressly to alert Potential purchasers of harman products of a potential problem they might face should their dealer no longer exist. If I had known that Harman's policy was that only the selling dealer can provide service and warrantee problem resolution. I may have not puchased a Harman product. As far as the other things you mentioned, all have been tried. Here is a quote from my second letter to Dane Harman:

"Then my wife was diagnosed with lung cancer. Since occasionally while burning wood, a slight waft of smoke could be smelled, we decided to burn oil exclusively during the winter of 2004-5. It was then that we first detected an occasional smell of oil. We called out heating technician who diddled with this and that, but could not find any problems. At that time you had an email address posted on your website, so I sent you a message last year, asking for any hints that I could pass along to my heating technician and also asking for a manual, since mine had burned up with the first wood fire (it had been packed in the ash tray and not found until after I dumped the first load of ashes). I received no response from my email and no manual. During the summer of 2006 we had the chimney cleaned as well as the entire furnace, including the oil heat exchanger and hoped this would solve the problem, but it didn’t. This winter the smell of oil persisted. Our heating technician brought out an “expert” who tipped the burner and drilled a small hole so that any excess oil would drip into the heat exchanger… this didn’t help. We finally concluded that the problem had to be a crack in the heat exchanger and I called Rettinger for a price. He quoted me $900+ but said he couldn’t install it and I told him I understood. Before ordering it, my heating technician came out again, pulled the air conditioning coil and carefully inspected the heat exchanger. Finding nothing wrong, he pulled the oil burner and resealed the access cover to the oil burner heat exchanger. Upon refiring the burner, we all again smelled oil. This last year we spent over $1200 trying to make your SF 2600 perform as intended, to no avail. My heating technician and his boss concluded that the problem must be due to a design flaw and without assistance from the manufacturer he could do no more."

The smell is of burning oil, and this should be impossible if the heat exchanger is intact. No cracks were found during either of it's cleam
ings or during the inspection when we pulled the air conditioning coil and could thorougly inspect its exterior. All I wanted from Harman were some hints on where to go from here.

Jack

 

[mgambuzza]

Well - I did it. After long debate I purchased a Harman P61A yesterday and had it delivered this morning. Ash disposal, weight, and dust swayed me away from the coal burner, and a heaping dose of confidence from the hearth shop that the P61 would be more than adequate convinced me. The real test for me would be the zero to subzero temperatures we were expecting in Syracuse tonight.

WOW This is incredible!! It is currently Zero (without wind chill) and my basement is a toasty 74 degrees - and the stove is hardly breaking a sweat! My wife - the final approver was elated as she no longer needed sweatshirts and the argument for using alternative fuels disappeared! What a great investment! It took a while, but it seems that I have made a great decision with the P61.

Of course time will tell with any maintenance/repairs that I can have, but this stove by far has proven to be an outstanding investment!

 

[keyman512us]

Mr Jennings...
Sorry to hear about you experience. Have you thought of contacting the US CPSC(consumer product safety commission)? And file a complaint to have them look into the matter?
Wouldn't hurt to check it out:

http://www.cpsc.gov/

 

[jejennings]

Thanks for the hint, I'll lok into it.

Jack

Mr Jennings...
Sorry to hear about you experience. Have you thought of contacting the US CPSC(consumer product safety commission)? And file a complaint to have them look into the matter?
Wouldn't hurt to check it out:

http://www.cpsc.gov/

 

[jejennings]

Thanks for the hint, I'll look into it.

Jack

Mr Jennings...
Sorry to hear about you experience. Have you thought of contacting the US CPSC(consumer product safety commission)? And file a complaint to have them look into the matter?
Wouldn't hurt to check it out:

http://www.cpsc.gov/

 

[jjbaer]

and, Mr Jennings, this has what to do with the original post of buying a p61 or a Magnum Stoker? Or are you derailing this post as a way to vent your frustrations with Harman in general? 5 posts here now, none before, asking for help, just 5 complaint posts.?

Harry,

You missed the point...big time.....the original post implied the poster was looking at Harmon and Magnum and all jennings did was provide an example driving home the point that regardless of which one the poster buys, that he should make sure the dealer he buys it from will be around long enough to service it...then you come along asking the question "and, Mr Jennings, this has what to do with the original post of buying a p61 or a Magnum Stoker?".

What it has to do with the original question is this: that regardless of what you buy, an equally valid if not of greater concern is, "will the dealer be around long enough to service it"........now do you see why jennings post was valid??

 

[HarryBack]

and, Mr Jennings, this has what to do with the original post of buying a p61 or a Magnum Stoker? Or are you derailing this post as a way to vent your frustrations with Harman in general? 5 posts here now, none before, asking for help, just 5 complaint posts.?

Harry,

You missed the point...big time.....the original post implied the poster was looking at Harmon and Magnum and all jennings did was provide an example driving home the point that regardless of which one the poster buys, that he should make sure the dealer he buys it from will be around long enough to service it...then you come along asking the question "and, Mr Jennings, this has what to do with the original post of buying a p61 or a Magnum Stoker?".

What it has to do with the original question is this: that regardless of what you buy, an equally valid if not of greater concern is, "will the dealer be around long enough to service it"........now do you see why jennings post was valid??

No, Cast, I think not. I see his post is more of a rant of frustration rather than a suggestion...ergo, he went through the time to dictate a identical post in several threads of the same issue, which may, or MAY NOT be Harman's issue, since the dealer has thrown up their hands on dealing with it.

You see, fact is, its irrelevant as to what stove you own, make or model. Point is, whatever unit you buy, you might look for longevity in service, which is a fairly obvious statement, really. The original thread, if you read back, compared two units....the P61 and the Magnum Stoker. Nothing in the post by Mr Jennings even acknowledged that comparison.

Mr Jennings did post back later acknowledging the fact that he wanted to warn any potential Harman customers of an issue he found with his own unit, faulty or not, that the selling dealer can only provide service to the unit they sold. Not really true, as any dealer CAN provide service, but for many reasons that have been addressed in other threads, they often dont, and arent required to, provide service to a unit they didnt sell. As for of Mr Jennings knowing this, and this fact possibly having an impact on his buying decision, Im fairly suspect there. The warrantee is fairly short and easy to read. Should have been looked at prior to the sale. Also, often when folks buy things, they look at the warrantee as being nice, but that its just fluff, and wont be needed (until possibly it IS needed).

So, Cast, I still stand by my previous post. I feel for Mr Jennings and his issues, but also am not completely sure its the unit and not the installation. What I do see here is more a person doing a search for Harman on a thread in the forum, and cutting and pasting that same complaint, irregardless of the thread, in an attempt to vent out of frustration with their dealer and manufacturer. I dont think I missed "the point" of it at all. I think you did.

 

[jjbaer]

and, Mr Jennings, this has what to do with the original post of buying a p61 or a Magnum Stoker? Or are you derailing this post as a way to vent your frustrations with Harman in general? 5 posts here now, none before, asking for help, just 5 complaint posts.?

Harry,

You missed the point...big time.....the original post implied the poster was looking at Harmon and Magnum and all jennings did was provide an example driving home the point that regardless of which one the poster buys, that he should make sure the dealer he buys it from will be around long enough to service it...then you come along asking the question "and, Mr Jennings, this has what to do with the original post of buying a p61 or a Magnum Stoker?".

What it has to do with the original question is this: that regardless of what you buy, an equally valid if not of greater concern is, "will the dealer be around long enough to service it"........now do you see why jennings post was valid??

No, Cast, I think not. I see his post is more of a rant of frustration rather than a suggestion...ergo, he went through the time to dictate a identical post in several threads of the same issue, which may, or MAY NOT be Harman's issue, since the dealer has thrown up their hands on dealing with it.

You see, fact is, its irrelevant as to what stove you own, make or model. Point is, whatever unit you buy, you might look for longevity in service, which is a fairly obvious statement, really. The original thread, if you read back, compared two units....the P61 and the Magnum Stoker. Nothing in the post by Mr Jennings even acknowledged that comparison.

Mr Jennings did post back later acknowledging the fact that he wanted to warn any potential Harman customers of an issue he found with his own unit, faulty or not, that the selling dealer can only provide service to the unit they sold. Not really true, as any dealer CAN provide service, but for many reasons that have been addressed in other threads, they often dont, and arent required to, provide service to a unit they didnt sell. As for of Mr Jennings knowing this, and this fact possibly having an impact on his buying decision, Im fairly suspect there. The warrantee is fairly short and easy to read. Should have been looked at prior to the sale. Also, often when folks buy things, they look at the warrantee as being nice, but that its just fluff, and wont be needed (until possibly it IS needed).

So, Cast, I still stand by my previous post. I feel for Mr Jennings and his issues, but also am not completely sure its the unit and not the installation. What I do see here is more a person doing a search for Harman on a thread in the forum, and cutting and pasting that same complaint, irregardless of the thread, in an attempt to vent out of frustration with their dealer and manufacturer. I dont think I missed "the point" of it at all. I think you did.

No...I think we're BOTH correct...you in that he may have posted several times before and that you think he's ranting.....me because if I were thinking about buying one I'd like to know what, if any problems, others are having with their stoves regardless of what he has to say...that way I could at least ask the same question of other dealers to verify his comments. Also, if he was having these problems, why do you suppose he can't find a dealerto rectify them? Not baiting but it's a valid question AND until you or I know why, and without evidence to the contrary, why wouldn't you give him the benefit of the doubt?

 

[jejennings]

HarryBack,

I have inserted some comments in your post, hopefully in italics.

and, Mr Jennings, this has what to do with the original post of buying a p61 or a Magnum Stoker? Or are you derailing this post as a way to vent your frustrations with Harman in general? 5 posts here now, none before, asking for help, just 5 complaint posts.?

Harry,

You missed the point...big time.....the original post implied the poster was looking at Harmon and Magnum and all jennings did was provide an example driving home the point that regardless of which one the poster buys, that he should make sure the dealer he buys it from will be around long enough to service it...then you come along asking the question "and, Mr Jennings, this has what to do with the original post of buying a p61 or a Magnum Stoker?".

What it has to do with the original question is this: that regardless of what you buy, an equally valid if not of greater concern is, "will the dealer be around long enough to service it"........now do you see why jennings post was valid??

No, Cast, I think not. I see his post is more of a rant of frustration rather than a suggestion...ergo, he went through the time to dictate a identical post in several threads of the same issue, which may, or MAY NOT be Harman's issue, since the dealer has thrown up their hands on dealing with it.

You may consider my post a rant, but I consider it to be a suggestion for anyone considering purchasing a Harman product. I must also correct your comment about my dealer. Actually my dealer was very nice and told me she would have addressed my problem but soon after her husband died (they were co-owners) Harman yanbked her dealership and gave it to a competitor. She didn't know why, because they were selling 84 Harman units each year. She also explained that her certified Harman-trained technician refuses to work on any Harman products because of the raw deal they gave her.

You see, fact is, its irrelevant as to what stove you own, make or model. Point is, whatever unit you buy, you might look for longevity in service, which is a fairly obvious statement, really. The original thread, if you read back, compared two units....the P61 and the Magnum Stoker. Nothing in the post by Mr Jennings even acknowledged that comparison.

My post was meant to be a warning to anyone comparing products to also consider support after the sale, particularly if, like in my case, the selling dealer is no longer a Harman dealer. The facts are as I presented them. Even in my extenuating circumstances, Harman absolutely refuses to offer ANY direct support to an end user.

Mr Jennings did post back later acknowledging the fact that he wanted to warn any potential Harman customers of an issue he found with his own unit, faulty or not, that the selling dealer can only provide service to the unit they sold. Not really true, as any dealer CAN provide service, but for many reasons that have been addressed in other threads, they often dont, and arent required to, provide service to a unit they didnt sell. As for of Mr Jennings knowing this, and this fact possibly having an impact on his buying decision, Im fairly suspect there. The warrantee is fairly short and easy to read. Should have been looked at prior to the sale. Also, often when folks buy things, they look at the warrantee as being nice, but that its just fluff, and wont be needed (until possibly it IS needed).

You are again in error and have made assumptions that are just not true. First I wish to point out that althought Harman has two dealers within driving distance from my home, neiter on sells furnaces, only stoves. In addition neither has a service tech that knows anything about oil burners when used in multi-fuel furnaces. Second, I did consider warrantee when comparing Harman with Eagle, Charmaster and other manufacturers of multi-fuel furnaces. I thought Harman's "Golden 6-year warrantee" looked rather fair. What I DID NOT consider, or know at the time, was that the dealer, and not the manufacturer, was responsible for handling all warrantee matters.

So, Cast, I still stand by my previous post. I feel for Mr Jennings and his issues, but also am not completely sure its the unit and not the installation. What I do see here is more a person doing a search for Harman on a thread in the forum, and cutting and pasting that same complaint, irregardless of the thread, in an attempt to vent out of frustration with their dealer and manufacturer. I dont think I missed "the point" of it at all. I think you did.

I'm afraid that you really DID miss the point. I will admit that yes. I am frustrated with the absolute refusal of Harman to even answer my emails when I first complained of the issue, and was sad to later learn that they will not deal directly with end users, should a problems be a warrantee issue. As far as the problem being an installation issue, I think not for the following reasons. (1) The Harman replaced a 20 year old multi-fuel furnace and was hooked up in exactly the same location and to the same flue. (2) The problems did not start to occur until the third year of operation.

The intention of my origianl message was, as I have said before, to bring to the attention of prospective buyers one aspect of the purchase decisison that I did not, and I suspect others may not consider. I really don't understand why you attack the messenger. Meanwhile we are now heating with wood exclusively until later this Spring, when the furnace will be ripped apart and thoroughly inspected to find the cause of the problem. I will report the findings.

 

[HarryBack]

Both correct? You must be a politician!


I agree, its odd that the dealer who installed and sold the unit wont rectify the issue. That is part of the agreement Harman has with its dealers. They dont ask us to service units our competition sells, but they do ask we service the units we sell. So, yes, it does baffle me as to why the dealer has "thrown up their hands"......the loss of the owner's husband, and the subsequent "pulling of the line" of stoves by Harman, and the fact that they were mistreated by Harman seems to have caused the "very experienced and qualified" technician to refuse to service the product he sold AND installed? Seems kinda like an excuse to me. They rpofited on the unit, they need to fix it. It does seem screwed up, as Mr Jennings acknowledges. Often with grey issues like this, the company who markets the line in the area takes up the slack....this hasnt happened in this case, I guess. As for the dealer losing the Harman line, this usually only happens with the very valid reason of the dealer failing to pay in a timely manner. How much rope do you give a guy before he hangs himself AND you? Gotta tell you, its very rare for a dealer of Harman to have the line pulled for any other reason.

JeJennings.....PM me your mailing address, and Ill get you another manual. I just need your serial number and model number. Actually, if its the SF2600A, I can likely download it and email it to you. Just let me know if it IS actually the SF2600A, and PM me your email addy.....I'll email you the manual in PDF format......

Good luck, Mr. Jennings. In rereading these posts, some seem kinda negative toward you, and if you took that meaning personally, I apologize. Wasnt meant that way!

 

[jejennings]

Comments inserted

Both correct? You must be a politician!

I agree, its odd that the dealer who installed and sold the unit wont rectify the issue. That is part of the agreement Harman has with its dealers. They dont ask us to service units our competition sells, but they do ask we service the units we sell. So, yes, it does baffle me as to why the dealer has "thrown up their hands"......the loss of the owner's husband, and the subsequent "pulling of the line" of stoves by Harman, and the fact that they were mistreated by Harman seems to have caused the "very experienced and qualified" technician to refuse to service the product he sold AND installed?

A clarification. I wasn't the dealer who had "thrown up their hands", actually I don't think I used that term. It was my regular heating/air conditioning technician (actually two of them) who were unable to find the source of the problem. I have used them since the original installation since my dealer was rather far away and travel costs would have been appreciable. The service outfit I used appeared to be fine with oil burner and furnace cleaning and adjustment, it was only when this problem came up during the third heating season after installation that I contacted the dealer who sold me the unit and Harman directly. No present Harman dealer within 60 miles has any experience, or technicians, who are familiar with multi-fuel furnaces, only stoves and fireplaces.

Seems kinda like an excuse to me. They rpofited on the unit, they need to fix it. It does seem screwed up, as Mr Jennings acknowledges. Often with grey issues like this, the company who markets the line in the area takes up the slack....this hasnt happened in this case, I guess. As for the dealer losing the Harman line, this usually only happens with the very valid reason of the dealer failing to pay in a timely manner. How much rope do you give a guy before he hangs himself AND you? Gotta tell you, its very rare for a dealer of Harman to have the line pulled for any other reason.

I only know what the dealertold me and have no idea of anything else that went on between them and Harman.

JeJennings.....PM me your mailing address, and Ill get you another manual. I just need your serial number and model number. Actually, if its the SF2600A, I can likely download it and email it to you. Just let me know if it IS actually the SF2600A, and PM me your email addy.....I'll email you the manual in PDF format......

The Model of the furnace is SF-2600SS and its serial number is WFI-002092. I would really appreciate the manual. Perhaps you can get it in PDF format, they do not have it in the manual download section of their website that is accessable by us ordinary folks. I found that frustrating, since they have manuals for many of their other products.

My email address is [email protected]. My mailing adderss is:
J. Evans Jennings Jr.
232 Erial Road
Sicklerville, NJ 08081

Good luck, Mr. Jennings. In rereading these posts, some seem kinda negative toward you, and if you took that meaning personally, I apologize. Wasnt meant that way!

My former heating contractor agreed with me that all indications were that the problem was due to a cracked heat exchanger. He could find none however, after charaging me $400 to open the plenum, pull the arir conditioning coil and inspecting it. He did tell me that sometimes they crack if the welds are not properly annealed. My new heating contractor has said that he will get to the bottom of the problem. He sent two certified (but not Harman trained) technicians to initially check it out. They wil pull the heat exchanger after the heating season is over and I will use a fluorescent penetrant to inspect it for cracks. It has been my experience with exhaust manifolds that sometimes cracks only open up when they are hot. If the heat exchanger is cracked, I will take it to a local Harman stove dealer and ask that he submit my warrantee claim, even though he did not sell me the unit. My problem now is that even though the problem showed up during the warrantee period, they could refuse a warrantee claim since the warrantee expired last March.

 

[mgambuzza]

...all this because I wanted to see if anyone had opinions - good and bad - between the coal and pellet product...

Its unfortunate that between all the posts all I got was 1 or 2 opinions on either of the stoves that I inquired about in the first place...

 

[jjbaer]

Both correct? You must be a politician!


I agree, its odd that the dealer who installed and sold the unit wont rectify the issue. That is part of the agreement Harman has with its dealers. They dont ask us to service units our competition sells, but they do ask we service the units we sell. So, yes, it does baffle me as to why the dealer has "thrown up their hands"......the loss of the owner's husband, and the subsequent "pulling of the line" of stoves by Harman, and the fact that they were mistreated by Harman seems to have caused the "very experienced and qualified" technician to refuse to service the product he sold AND installed? Seems kinda like an excuse to me. They rpofited on the unit, they need to fix it. It does seem screwed up, as Mr Jennings acknowledges. Often with grey issues like this, the company who markets the line in the area takes up the slack....this hasnt happened in this case, I guess. As for the dealer losing the Harman line, this usually only happens with the very valid reason of the dealer failing to pay in a timely manner. How much rope do you give a guy before he hangs himself AND you? Gotta tell you, its very rare for a dealer of Harman to have the line pulled for any other reason.

JeJennings.....PM me your mailing address, and Ill get you another manual. I just need your serial number and model number. Actually, if its the SF2600A, I can likely download it and email it to you. Just let me know if it IS actually the SF2600A, and PM me your email addy.....I'll email you the manual in PDF format......

Good luck, Mr. Jennings. In rereading these posts, some seem kinda negative toward you, and if you took that meaning personally, I apologize. Wasnt meant that way!

Harry,

I don't know why but except for your last post you seem intent on making Jennings out to be a whiner and complainer........despite the fact that Jennings followed the Harmon chain of command...he went to the dealer who sold it but he was not selling Harmons any more.....he then went to two nearby Harmon dealers who don't service this oil furnace and finally went to Harmon where he got no answer.....how am I doing so far, harry?????

So, Harry....tough questions for you:

1) Jennings followed the chain of command....what more do you want him to do so that you don't label him as a "whiner"?

2) you worked customer service for years.....if you were at Harmon and Jennings followed the chain of command and ended up on your (Harmons) doorstep, what would you do for Jennings and therefore what should Harmon now do for Jennings???

3) As for my point that you have said I was wrong on: don't you think that a prospective Harmon buyer (even if it's a person thinking about buying a stove and not an oil furnace) don't you think that person would want to know that, according to Jennings, he followed the chain of command yet can't get his furnace problem addressed by Harmon?????? I do and I bet 100% of other prospective buyers would also because save for the grace of the Lord, there they go also.....

Finally, an analogy: let's say I buy a Chevy and it breaks. I go to three nearby dealers and they're either no longer dealers or in this case, they won't help you. I then try other dealers but (if what you're saying about stove dealers also holds for the Chevy dealers) these other Chevy dealers aren't responsible to help me. And finally, I go to GM and they also ignore me...... How long do you suppose it will be before people say, stop buying Buicks based on the lack of support I'm getting on my hypothetical Chevy?

 

[jjbaer]

...all this because I wanted to see if anyone had opinions - good and bad - between the coal and pellet product...

Its unfortunate that between all the posts all I got was 1 or 2 opinions on either of the stoves that I inquired about in the first place...

No...you got a lot more valuable info..........if what Jennings said is accurate, you now know that if you do buy one of these and if that dealer goes TANGO UNIFORM (dies or goes out of business) that you might be out in the cold if you need help........i.e., the best product in the world is useless if dealer support is not there with you when you need it......

 

[HarryBack]

Both correct? You must be a politician!


I agree, its odd that the dealer who installed and sold the unit wont rectify the issue. That is part of the agreement Harman has with its dealers. They dont ask us to service units our competition sells, but they do ask we service the units we sell. So, yes, it does baffle me as to why the dealer has "thrown up their hands"......the loss of the owner's husband, and the subsequent "pulling of the line" of stoves by Harman, and the fact that they were mistreated by Harman seems to have caused the "very experienced and qualified" technician to refuse to service the product he sold AND installed? Seems kinda like an excuse to me. They rpofited on the unit, they need to fix it. It does seem screwed up, as Mr Jennings acknowledges. Often with grey issues like this, the company who markets the line in the area takes up the slack....this hasnt happened in this case, I guess. As for the dealer losing the Harman line, this usually only happens with the very valid reason of the dealer failing to pay in a timely manner. How much rope do you give a guy before he hangs himself AND you? Gotta tell you, its very rare for a dealer of Harman to have the line pulled for any other reason.

JeJennings.....PM me your mailing address, and Ill get you another manual. I just need your serial number and model number. Actually, if its the SF2600A, I can likely download it and email it to you. Just let me know if it IS actually the SF2600A, and PM me your email addy.....I'll email you the manual in PDF format......

Good luck, Mr. Jennings. In rereading these posts, some seem kinda negative toward you, and if you took that meaning personally, I apologize. Wasnt meant that way!

Harry,

I don't know why but except for your last post you seem intent on making Jennings out to be a whiner and complainer........despite the fact that Jennings followed the Harmon chain of command...he went to the dealer who sold it but he was not selling Harmons any more.....he then went to two nearby Harmon dealers who don't service this oil furnace and finally went to Harmon where he got no answer.....how am I doing so far, harry?????

So, Harry....tough questions for you:

1) Jennings followed the chain of command....what more do you want him to do so that you don't label him as a "whiner"?

2) you worked customer service for years.....if you were at Harmon and Jennings followed the chain of command and ended up on your (Harmons) doorstep, what would you do for Jennings and therefore what should Harmon now do for Jennings???

3) As for my point that you have said I was wrong on: don't you think that a prospective Harmon buyer (even if it's a person thinking about buying a stove and not an oil furnace) don't you think that person would want to know that, according to Jennings, he followed the chain of command yet can't get his furnace problem addressed by Harmon?????? I do and I bet 100% of other prospective buyers would also because save for the grace of the Lord, there they go also.....

Finally, an analogy: let's say I buy a Chevy and it breaks. I go to three nearby dealers and they're either no longer dealers or in this case, they won't help you. I then try other dealers but (if what you're saying about stove dealers also holds for the Chevy dealers) these other Chevy dealers aren't responsible to help me. And finally, I go to GM and they also ignore me...... How long do you suppose it will be before people say, stop buying Buicks based on the lack of support I'm getting on my hypothetical Chevy?

read up, Cast....original poster put it well:

...all this because I wanted to see if anyone had opinions - good and bad - between the coal and pellet product…

Its unfortunate that between all the posts all I got was 1 or 2 opinions on either of the stoves that I inquired about in the first place…

my point exactly.

Frankly, Cast, I'll not answer your sarcastic questions. Unfortunately, communication is a two way street. Sarcasm and a complete lack of respect will generally get you nowhere....which is why I wont dignify your frankly provocative post with another. People post here generally to help others. Some poeple post here to vent. While others, like you, seem to post here to get a "rise" out of others. Good luck with that....I'll not dignify your post.

And for the record, never did I say Mr Jennings was a "whiner"...you did.

 

[jjbaer]

Frankly, Cast, I'll not answer your sarcastic questions.

Harry,

So, you're comment about "and, Mr Jennings, this has what to do with the original post of buying a p61 or a Magnum Stoker?" isn't sarchastic?

Let me answer for you since Jennings didn't: before you buy ANY stove it behooves the prospective purchaser to see if support is available. The best stove in the world is rendered useless the minute you need service and none is to be found...... Given Jennings fiasco I would think that EVERY prospective purchaser of a Harmon product would want to know that if they also had problems, would Harmon also leave THEM to fend for themselves......? That's the point you miss and have still failed to address....it has EVERYTHING to do with the posters question....... If you can't make that "synaptic connection" you should probably pass on this thread and find another but first, please apologize to Jennings................

 

[alfio]

With the temperature drops below zero happening, it brings up some of the shortcomings of my current stove. The Thelin Parlor Pellet can barely keep my basement - concrete - 1300sq ft - open floor plan - no insulation - at 64 degrees with stove at full tilt.

I was considering the following options - Harman P61 or the Magnum Coal Stoker. I don't want to consider wood due to the maintenance, constant adding of fuel, and being away from the house 8 - 10hrs a day(the fire would go out and the dogs who are in the basement would freeze). I was originally considering the Mt Vernon, but have a Castille on my first floor and I am not overly thrilled with the performance and quirks of this line or product.

I have made some incremental investments within the past year on the basement stove, and want to make a final investment that will last me numerous years. They are both in the $2700 price range, so price isn't a determining factor. I don't want to buy one of these and a year later kick myself for not buying the other as it performs better under adverse conditions.

Hi, i have a p61 and i heat approximately 2000 sq feet , 700 in the basement and 1450 first floor . and it a hard time keeping the house at 65 degrees , i would consider the p68 or the magnum coal stoker .The meg. has more btu's + you can run a duct from it . good luck