55-TRPAH Door Gasket failed

[SidecarFlip]

Lets not bring up Chevy. I am bringing in the car this afternoon for repair of 4 recalls

I got one for the Caddy...for the ignition switch.... Thats unreal.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I got one for the Caddy...for the ignition switch.... Thats unreal.

That is going to be a very expensive cheap switch in the end. The stuff that counts they screw up and the stuff that doesn't really mater like paint color they provide a pile of options for along with top coatings. Makes no sense at all.

 

[acammer]

Well your describing my situation to the tee as well. I have a refurb/blemish PAH from amfm. Worked fine for the first couple weeks but the last couple months its been nothing but trouble. Mine will degrade over a week to week and a half to where it wont even burn properly on a 1 setting and soot up the whole stove bad in a few hours. A thorough cleaning including leaf blower seems to get it back to factory, but each time lasts less than 2 weeks. I keep finding issues and fixing, but the problem still is there. I too have gaskets that didn't pass the dollar bill test. This stove was bought just this past fall. I could insert the dollar bill into the ashpan with it fully closed! I was sure this was allowing air in and creating an improper burn. My stove has a good bow to the face of it. Finally went to a stove shop and got some new gasket, went thicker than the factory gaskets, and sealed up the door and ash pan well. I didn't do the hopper lid yet, but can't believe it could leak enough air to be causing my problem when I can run the stove with it wide open and not notice any difference.

Also I found my burn pot slightly warped too, and air was leaking through the edge in the middle, like under the chute. I put some gasket under it and its not leaking air any more there. But that didn't fix the degrading burn. I'm guessing at this point that it is my venting, but going to do a thorough cleaning again as soon as I have a day off, including sweeping the chimney instead of just the leaf blower. I'd like to pull the stove out and get at the combustion blower to clean and inspect it, just have to figure out something for the gasket.

Hope you figure yours out. I'll let you know if I figure out anything for sure on mine.

What kind of trims on the LFF and LBA are you running? I've found that to maintain a clean burn for over 24hrs, especially when the temps are headed below 20*F, I need to be running a fuel trim of 3 and an air trim of 9 on high (which is essentially the only heat level I run until the T-stat kicks it to idle once or twice a day for a few hours). With those settings I can go about 2 days before the burn starts to degrade to the point where I'm seeing the flames getting lazy and bent over up against the heat exchanger, and black smoke tips on the edge of the flame. Once that starts I need to clean the burn pot pretty soon or the burn will continue to degrade to sooting up the door/stove - and that's not good because then I have to do a plates off and bang out the heat exchangers to get full flow back. That is always the source of my degrading burn - the burn pot loading up and closing down the airflow holes. All that I need to do to restore performance is clean that thing good, make sure all the holes are opened up, and it'll run as it should again. I of course make sure that I suck out the accumulated ash in the stove while I'm there, and make sure that the cradle is completely clean as well. I think the reason that the burn pot degrades is buildup under the pot in the cradle - I usually find whenever my burn has gone poor that I have a good accumulation under the cradle, right up to the bottom of the airflow holds, and that starts the process of the holes clogging. Why they didn't make the cradle a little deeper is baffling to me - it seems like it could have lead to longer run times before clean ups. I'm sure it varies with fuel used too, I'll have to get a few bags of something different to compare with.

I would start by maxing out the LBA to get as much air going as possible, and get the fuel dialed back quite a bit. This isn't necessarily the most efficient tune, but it will be the cleanest. If you're running at a LBA of 9 and an LFF of 1 and this thing still loads up in less than a day I think you can be confident you've got other issues. Of course if you're not sure you've got all air leaks solved for, you're wasting your time, that things gotta be air tight if it's every going to perform cleanly on the higher heat settings.

The combustion blower should vary based on the control board. You'd probably have to have the heat set on 9 and also the LBA on 9 I would guess for it to be maxed out, unless the stove hits the max sooner and the LBA adjustments only mean anything for lower heat setting. Would be curious to know.

I would also be very interested to learn that. I asked Mike if we could chat in the off season so I can learn some of the finer details on the control board - ie. how the heat level changes the feed and air rates, and then how the trims work - does it modify the base rate by a percentage, fixed amount, expo, etc. I too suspect that the combustion blower maxes out before trim level 9 on the higher settings, but it would be really neat to know exactly how it works.

I sure do miss my old stoves seemingly oversized (or at least more than capable to meet any level of feed) combustion blower - that thing was so strong it could pretty much blow out the fire on any of the low to medium settings if you didn't throttle the damper back, and it could keep up with the auger running 100% duty cycle delivering 8lbs/hr of pellets with the damper full open. Same venting system as the current stove. From what I understand getting that EPA certification is all about getting the particulate emissions low enough, and that requires much more careful control of the airflow. Once this stove goes out of warranty it might be time to look at hot-rod options for the combustion blower to raise my peak output capabilities - I want to see how much heat this will throw with the fuel trim wide open. It would also be nice to put enough air to the glass to keep it clean for more than a couple of hours.

 

[OPtaylor]

I have basically left my settings of 1-4-1 alone. You can almost see burning pellets moving around in the burn pot. I have tried tweaking it but it seems to run fine at those settings, as long as it is clean. Got home yesterday to a cold stove so I thought I would run the "diagnostic" and verify all working as should. Upon entering diagnostic first up is the temp sensor? Get 8 and A in top two displays. Not sure what should be in them maybe someone here knows? Check exhaust blower, it is running at 3385 rpm on my handheld tach,, i"m sure that is a good #. Finish with convection blower, auger, igniter etc. all working as should. One thing I have noticed is with the OAK tube when I first started it up you could hear the air going thru but over time it was less noticeable, even after cleaning. So after finishing the diagnostic I opened the door on the stove and proceeded to connect my shop vac to the screen end of the air tube to clean any dust, bugs, or other matter out of the fresh air supply. Not sure what came thru the screen but there were some small chunks of clinkers? or rust particles or? that would not come thru the screen. After finishing up and restarting the stove seemed to be running as it did back in Nov. not quite a blow torch flame but definitely better than it has been for the last month. You could actually hear the fresh air being sucked into the stove again. Still plan on reworking door gasket this weekend to cure any leaks around it. Also attached is a pick of front of stove, kind of hard to see but there is about 1/8-1/4" in the middle (stove was still warm at that time). Hopefully some gasket work will make up for this. Glass was also much cleaner this AM than it has been for awhile.

 

[acammer]

I have basically left my settings of 1-4-1 alone. You can almost see burning pellets moving around in the burn pot. I have tried tweaking it but it seems to run fine at those settings, as long as it is clean. Got home yesterday to a cold stove so I thought I would run the "diagnostic" and verify all working as should. Upon entering diagnostic first up is the temp sensor? Get 8 and A in top two displays. Not sure what should be in them maybe someone here knows? Check exhaust blower, it is running at 3385 rpm on my handheld tach,, i"m sure that is a good #. Finish with convection blower, auger, igniter etc. all working as should. One thing I have noticed is with the OAK tube when I first started it up you could hear the air going thru but over time it was less noticeable, even after cleaning. So after finishing the diagnostic I opened the door on the stove and proceeded to connect my shop vac to the screen end of the air tube to clean any dust, bugs, or other matter out of the fresh air supply. Not sure what came thru the screen but there were some small chunks of clinkers? or rust particles or? that would not come thru the screen. After finishing up and restarting the stove seemed to be running as it did back in Nov. not quite a blow torch flame but definitely better than it has been for the last month. You could actually hear the fresh air being sucked into the stove again. Still plan on reworking door gasket this weekend to cure any leaks around it. Also attached is a pick of front of stove, kind of hard to see but there is about 1/8-1/4" in the middle (stove was still warm at that time). Hopefully some gasket work will make up for this. Glass was also much cleaner this AM than it has been for awhile.

That is quite the bow, I can see that pretty clearly. If you're burns going dirty, I wouldn't hesitate to add more LBA to keep things from loading up. Mine runs fine at the 1/4/1 when it's clean, but it'll eventually get loaded up if run there for over a day. Just something to consider. I wouldn't get worried about tuning anything until that air leak gets resolved, if you can get that sealed good you should be good to go.

 

[OPtaylor]

The "bow" basically runs just across the opening where the lip/support extends. It is a solid weld on this lip to the housing so I can see why it would have distortion from welding. I think it is caused in the building process and not from any type of over fire. The lip itself is straight. I have a feeling when the stove heats up it expands/moves and creates a possible air leak. Will likely send ESW a better picture and see if the have any comment. Meanwhile i'll try and get the gasket to seal it up. Thanks for all the input.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

OPtaylor,

Did you ever contact ESW?

Talking to folks here will not result in the situation getting taken care of.

We can suggest adding a short length of gasket cemented to the stove frame where the bow is or even seeing if someone with metal working experience can realign things. But you shouldn't need to do either.

 

[SidecarFlip]

The "bow" basically runs just across the opening where the lip/support extends. It is a solid weld on this lip to the housing so I can see why it would have distortion from welding. I think it is caused in the building process and not from any type of over fire. The lip itself is straight. I have a feeling when the stove heats up it expands/moves and creates a possible air leak. Will likely send ESW a better picture and see if the have any comment. Meanwhile i'll try and get the gasket to seal it up. Thanks for all the input.

Solid weld seems not in keeping with something production made... Sure it's not a stitch weld?

 

[OPtaylor]

OPtaylor,

Did you ever contact ESW?

Talking to folks here will not result in the situation getting taken care of.

We can suggest adding a short length of gasket cemented to the stove frame where the bow is or even seeing if someone with metal working experience can realign things. But you shouldn't need to do either.

Yes I have sent them a picture inquiring about it as well. They have already replied about the 8 A temp sensor and all is good with that. Maybe will hear something about the "bow" later. I figured on building up the gasket somewhat across the top when I go to replace it also as you suggest. Thanks

 

[OPtaylor]

Solid weld seems not in keeping with something production made... Sure it's not a stitch weld?

I'll post another pic tonight, pretty sure it's solid, but I could be wrong.

 

[OPtaylor]

Solid weld seems not in keeping with something production made... Sure it's not a stitch weld?

 

[OPtaylor]

The brace/lip/support is straight the door just seals tight at corners and leaks in between, if that makes sense

 

[SidecarFlip]

It's solid (continuous) weld. It's pulsed MIG btw.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Is the face of the stove warped or is the door itself warped? It sounds like the door is warped to me. Easy to find out, take the door off and lay it face down on a countertop and see if it rocks.

 

[acammer]

Is the face of the stove warped or is the door itself warped? It sounds like the door is warped to me. Easy to find out, take the door off and lay it face down on a countertop and see if it rocks.

I'd say from the pictures in post #29 that the face is definitely bowed concave, and enough to cause some major door gasket sealing. I'd let Englander make that one right.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I'd say from the pictures in post #29 that the face is definitely bowed concave, and enough to cause some major door gasket sealing. I'd let Englander make that one right.

In industry standards, thats not much, However, if the door is warped (not flat) an equal amount or more, adequate sealing might be an issue. 1/8" overall isn't going to compromise sealing of a rope gasket. Thats what it's for, to seal irregularities.

I do want to know how the OP accesses the cleanout (in post 29). It's impossible to access with the stove that close to the wall or at least stupid difficult.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Those are the warpage of the stove body under the main door and ash pan on my 55-TRPAH. Even though under the door was nearly a 1/4" it was the ash pan with its flat gasket that was much more loose using the dollar bill test. They are a little more bowed than the pictures reveal since I didn’t take the pictures straight down and the thickness of the straight edge hides some of the orange and white paper I used. I replaced the gaskets with thicker ones and they both pass the dollar bill test now, but my problem remains unchanged.

What kind of trims on the LFF and LBA are you running? I've found that to maintain a clean burn for over 24hrs, especially when the temps are headed below 20*F, I need to be running a fuel trim of 3 and an air trim of 9 on high (which is essentially the only heat level I run until the T-stat kicks it to idle once or twice a day for a few hours). With those settings I can go about 2 days before the burn starts to degrade to the point where I'm seeing the flames getting lazy and bent over up against the heat exchanger, and black smoke tips on the edge of the flame.

After mine is cleaned, the factory settings seem work best. 1-4-1. But this is my first year with pellets, so I'm no pro tuner. ESW also doesn't seem to want to educate their clients on tuning either. But if I turn the LBA up while the stove is running good the fire burns down into the pot and will even go out on low settings. As it is, with the factory settings, the fire will still even dissapear down into the burn pot on like 1 to 3 heat settings. I've rarely used 9 except for a few days when the cold snap hit (lets say single digits or less). Of course that depends on the wood stove which is carrying a good chunk of my heating load currently. I usually clean mine every day, though at first every other day seems fine with little in the pot and clean burn (just huge piles around the cradle after 2 days). My intervals are getting shorter but generally after a week I notice its getting lazier and I start increasing the LBA, and switch to daily cleaning for sure. And after a couple more days I have the LBA on 9. I've been running the LBA on 9 now for the last 4-5 days and it burns lazy and sooty from the get go even on a 1 heat setting. I probably should just shut the thing off at this point and not run it, I'm sure the amount of soot its creating is really fouling things up. But lately even with the wood stove I need more heat (drafty and poorly insulated here) I am shutting it down right now though, going to sweep the chimney, pull apart the duravent, and pull the stove and more than likely the combustion blower. There are also a couple joints in my liner that aren't sealed I am going to attempt to seal (like the zero clearance detachable snout of the tee) but with years of ash and soot coating I'm not sure if its even possible to seal.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I don't see the manufacturer warranting the stove for that amount of warpage in as much as some will be from metal shrinkage during welding. We need to leave that up to the maker however.

 

[OPtaylor]

In industry standards, thats not much, However, if the door is warped (not flat) an equal amount or more, adequate sealing might be an issue. 1/8" overall isn't going to compromise sealing of a rope gasket. Thats what it's for, to seal irregularities.

I do want to know how the OP accesses the cleanout (in post 29). It's impossible to access with the stove that close to the wall or at least stupid difficult.

I remove the section of pipe from rear of stove clean out T to its elbow into the pre existing flue. Carry it outside and clean it there, 5-10 min later it's re-installed and ready to use. I remove it when I remove plates in stove to clean it, connect shop vac to fan exhaust and let it do it's thing. Same function as LBT I would think...

 

[SidecarFlip]

If there is a space constraint, all well and good but if there isn't, a short horizontail length would go a long way toward alleviating the cramped situation. I like a couple feet between the stove back and the wall if possible for future stove work...