4 way wedge on home build splitter

[Isaac Carlson]

My axle is from a ford windstar. I cut the center rot out and welded the two halves back together.

 

[DonTee]

For you hydraulic gurus out there... what would happen if I replace my 4.5” cylinder (rod size, not outside case size) with a 2” rod cylinder? I know the splitting power would be reduced, but would the cycle time decrease?

I have a leak that looks like it’s from the outside of the cylinder case. So I might be looking for a new cylinder in the near future.

I’ve noticed that a lot of splitters have reasonably sized cylinders. Something like 1.75” or 2”. My giant 4.5” rod has gotta be slowing things down.

I know this goes against the original question of adding a 4 way splitting head, but I think we’ve figured out that’s a bad idea for my splitter anyways.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

For you hydraulic gurus out there... what would happen if I replace my 4.5” cylinder (rod size, not outside case size) with a 2” rod cylinder? I know the splitting power would be reduced, but would the cycle time decrease?

I have a leak that looks like it’s from the outside of the cylinder case. So I might be looking for a new cylinder in the near future.

I’ve noticed that a lot of splitters have reasonably sized cylinders. Something like 1.75” or 2”. My giant 4.5” rod has gotta be slowing things down.

I know this goes against the original question of adding a 4 way splitting head, but I think we’ve figured out that’s a bad idea for my splitter anyways.

If you are talking about just the rod diameter, a bigger rod will return faster, but the splitting force is the same.

The cylinder/piston diameter is what gives you tonnage on the push stroke.

 

[salecker]

A leak on the outside should be fixable.
You can weld the outside without taking it apart.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

A leak on the outside should be fixable.
You can weld the outside without taking it apart.

I don't think it's a good idea to say that. He could have a bad o-ring or seal. The piston seals could be bad as well, which could be why he doesn't have enough tonnage.

 

[DonTee]

I was thinking the opposite then. I thought for some reason that the smaller cylinder would be faster (but not at strong) and the larger cylinder would be slower (but stronger). Given everything is still the same. But I guess it got it backwards.

The cylinder is leaking from the outside where it mounts to a bracket in the back. I have no problems with it splitting anything I want it to, I just want it to be faster. Hence the 4 way wedge, or faster cycle time.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

I was thinking the opposite then. I thought for some reason that the smaller cylinder would be faster (but not at strong) and the larger cylinder would be slower (but stronger). Given everything is still the same. But I guess it got it backwards.

The cylinder is leaking from the outside where it mounts to a bracket in the back. I have no problems with it splitting anything I want it to, I just want it to be faster. Hence the 4 way wedge, or faster cycle time.

View attachment 297839

A smaller cylinder is faster, but you said rod size, not cylinder.

How is the cylinder connected to the steel bracket? Is it welded?? I see a nut that may be from a u bolt?

 

[DonTee]

It’s my bad. I probably don’t use the correct terminology sometimes. The inside part of the cylinder. Rod or ram or whatever it’s called. The chrome part. That’s what I’m wondering about. Mine is 4 1/2” diameter. I’m wondering if I changed it to a 2” diameter and kept the cylinder travel length the same, would it cycle faster?

 

[DonTee]

Yes it does use a u-bolt. Well it’s a piece of all-thread that someone bent into a u-bolt. Anyways it’s leaking where the cylinder sits in the metal bracket behind the u-bolt.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

The cylinder bore and rod diameter are two different things. The cylinder diameter is the size of the piston inside the cylinder.
The rod is the part that comes out, and it is smaller than the cylinder diameter, usually around half the diameter.

A bigger cylinder will take longer to fill and will be slower, but will generate more force.
A bigger rod diameter will resist bending better and will return faster because there is less volume to fill on the return stroke.

If your cylinder is cracked, it could be welded, but it could damage the piston seals if they are not already damaged from riding over the crack. Repairing it properly will cost just as much as a new cylinder, but your setup looks cobbled together to begin with, so it is going to be
Expensive either way.

Do you know what size pump you have? What hp motor? I would suggest a 4" cylinder with a 2+" rod. That will be the sweet spot for speed/force and will run a good 4 way wedge reliably. I have a 3hp motor and 11 gpm pump with a 4" cylinder and it will run my 4 way just fine.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

This is my setup with slip on wedge, 4" cylinder and 3hp electric motor

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[DonTee]

I have a 8hp Honda motor on the splitter. It’s a repower I did last year.

The only info I have on the pump is what I posted on the first page. It’s a Vickers. I couldn’t find any info out about it online.

The splitter is definitely cobbled together. I’d like to make if nicer without spending too much money on it. It was a big upgrade when I replaced the old Briggs engine it had. And the Honda was free, so why not.

So I guess I should measure the stroke of the cylinder and look at my options.

 

[DonTee]

I’ve thought about doing an electric setup, but right now I’m not close enough to a power source. A 240v power source.

At some point when I build a barn it would be nice to have an electric splitter to use. I could have a splitting station inside.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

I have a 8hp Honda motor on the splitter. It’s a repower I did last year.

The only info I have on the pump is what I posted on the first page. It’s a Vickers. I couldn’t find any info out about it online.

The splitter is definitely cobbled together. I’d like to make if nicer without spending too much money on it. It was a big upgrade when I replaced the old Briggs engine it had. And the Honda was free, so why not.

So I guess I should measure the stroke of the cylinder and look at my options.

An 8hp engine will run a 2 stage 16 gpm pump, but your lines need to be big enough. At least 1/2", but preferably 3/4", and the valve has to match.

If your lines/valve are not big enough, a 2 stage 13 gpm pump will do nicely, and might even be the perfect size. That will give you good cycle times with a 4" cylinder and plenty of grunt for a 4 way wedge. Make sure your kick down and relief pressures are adjusted correctly. The engine will not even know it is there.

You will need different mounts for a new cylinder. I am sure you will be pleased with the setup I mentioned.

 

[DonTee]

Where is a good place to source the pump and cylinder? And do you have any brands you prefer?

My only experience with cylinder is the one I replaced last year on a Harbor Freight backhoe. I found one on Amazon that was the same size as the old one.

 

[salecker]

I don't think it's a good idea to say that. He could have a bad o-ring or seal. The piston seals could be bad as well, which could be why he doesn't have enough tonnage.

I have welded rams on my 950 where the original welds started to leak.The loader was built in 58 and worked hard all it's life.It takes a couple of tries to get it to stop leaking as the area is hard to clean totally.But it can be done,i used a mig welder which is fussy about clean areas.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

I have welded rams on my 950 where the original welds started to leak.The loader was built in 58 and worked hard all it's life.It takes a couple of tries to get it to stop leaking as the area is hard to clean totally.But it can be done,i used a mig welder which is fussy about clean areas.

And make sure the piston is not near the weld or you will melt the seals.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

Where is a good place to source the pump and cylinder? And do you have any brands you prefer?

My only experience with cylinder is the one I replaced last year on a Harbor Freight backhoe. I found one on Amazon that was the same size as the old one.

Get them where you can find them. Brand is not terribly important. Barnes haldex makes good pumps, and speeco pumps are not bad either. There are surplus hydraulic sites as well.

 

[DonTee]

Well, you know how I was saying power isn’t a problem. Now it is. I changed the hyd fluid in the splitter for the first time since I’ve been using it. The old stuff was very dark in color. Anyways, after using it for a couple days now I notice the cylinder doesn’t have power like it used to. To the point where it won’t even split some pieces. It also makes a sort of sucking sound when retracting the ram.

So, do I have to bleed the system after changing the fluid? Did the fluid I put in it kill it? (I used TSC UTF).
Or is this just the seal inside going bad because of the hole in the cylinder?

It’s not leaking any worse than it was. Which was very little.

 

[Isaac Carlson]

Sounds like a bad seal. A crack in a cylinder will tear up a seal. What weight fluid did you use and is there a filter?

 

[DonTee]

It doesn’t have a filter. Universal tractor fluid is around a 20w.
The level is correct. It has a little sight window. With the cylinder retracted the level is in the middle. With the cylinder extended the level is at the bottom of the window.
At the bottom of the window there is still around 3 gallons of hyd fluid below that level.

The issue seems to happen once the splitter warms up. For the first 5-10 minutes it operates fine it seems. Then it loses power. I’ll try it again today to see if the power is back.

By the way, this cylinder and hyd pump are from a train track setup. My dad gave me this brochure that I guess the guy who built it had.

 

[DonTee]

I tested it out just now and it’s definitely low on power. It can barely split a piece of wood.
So question, for a temporary fix, can I just replace the cylinder? Mine has a 20” stroke. So I was looking at 4x20 cylinders. I think those have a 2” rod diameter.

 

[salecker]

Sounds like the oil is thinner then the old stuff

 

[Jags]

I tested it out just now and it’s definitely low on power. It can barely split a piece of wood.
So question, for a temporary fix, can I just replace the cylinder? Mine has a 20” stroke. So I was looking at 4x20 cylinders. I think those have a 2” rod diameter.

Unless it's the pump that's at fault.....just say'in.

 

[DonTee]

Unless it's the pump that's at fault.....just say'in.

It definitely could be. I need some way to figure out which part is bad. I know the cylinder needs some work, so I figured I’d start there.

The noise I hear seems to be coming from the cylinder.

The paperwork I have for the cylinder and pump say it’s supposed to take 10w oil. The stuff I drained out was much thicker than that. It reminded me of the 15w40 oil I drain from my tractor.