30% tax credits on new stoves

[Wet1]

One thing is for sure, the woodstock company is letting it all hang out and doing everything they can to win those customers that can be won by the tax credit carrot. I have not seen any other manufacturer advertizing as aggressively. In the abscence of other folks claiming to have earned the tax credit they seem to be the only one that does.

Agreed. The details for this entire thing has been fuzzy at best all along and I find I strange that WS seems to be the only one "in the know". I would think a company such as BK would have just as good of a chance for meeting these yet to be fully defined requirements, but even BK still appears to be waiting for more info... yet the folks at WS make this sound like it's basically a done deal and their just waiting for the testing to make it official.

 

[asylum575]

Anything new on this?

I'm planning on getting a Napoleon 1100C, but may switch if they don't qualify

 

[Greg123]

I have been reading that The IRS is expected to issue the completed list of requirements by mid-to-late April 2009. I'm also looking at a new wood stove, but I'm holding off until further details are available.

 

[stoveguy13]

the date from the irs is they should have a ruling by april 30th but i would not hold your breath it was due on march 31st

 

[naturesheat]

Woops....please read next post...lol.

 

[naturesheat]

The IRS has finally anounced the details of the 30% tax credit. Looks like it will be pretty much up to the Manufacturers to certify their own units. http://hpba.org/index.php?id=294

 

[asylum575]

I was just looking at the EPA listing that was updated 5/22/09.

(broken link removed to http://www.epa.gov/oecaerth/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf)

Very few stoves qualify. I wonder if all the manufacturers will retest and try to get their stoves on the list. I would think that if you apply for the tax credit and the stove you bought is not on the EPA list as 75% or better, the IRS would have a problem with it. I was planning on a Napoleon 1100C, which is not on the EPA list at all. Napoleon has it rated as 69.8% on their website.

According to the list, not one Vermont Castings, Lopi or Harmon wood stove would qualify. It think there is some juggling to be done.

 

[SSPENCE]

TRAVIS INDUSTRIES HAS ALREADY TESTED THERE PRODUCT TO THE LOW BURN STANDARDS LOOKS LIKE MOST OR ALL HAVE PAST. HAS ANY ONE SEEN ANY THING FROM VERMONT CASTING. THANKS SHANE

 

[Todd]

I was just looking at the EPA listing that was updated 5/22/09.

(broken link removed to http://www.epa.gov/oecaerth/resources/publications/monitoring/caa/woodstoves/certifiedwood.pdf)

Very few stoves qualify. I wonder if all the manufacturers will retest and try to get their stoves on the list. I would think that if you apply for the tax credit and the stove you bought is not on the EPA list as 75% or better, the IRS would have a problem with it. I was planning on a Napoleon 1100C, which is not on the EPA list at all. Napoleon has it rated as 69.8% on their website.

According to the list, not one Vermont Castings, Lopi or Harmon wood stove would qualify. It think there is some juggling to be done.

Those are just EPA default efficiencies, they throw all non cat stoves in at an average or default of around 63% and cats at 72%. The EPA doesn't test for efficiency, they test for GPH.

 

[asylum575]

Well, I had my heart set on a Napoleon 1100c for a corner install. Double pipe gives you 2" clearance.

If Napoleon doesn't come through with new numbers, I'll go with the Isle Royale. Bigger stove, local dealer. The $1500 covers the install and then some.

 

[Later]

Jotul website has a list of their stoves that qualify.

 

[SHH_150]

Jotul website has a list of their stoves that qualify.

Finally!! F500 now seems so much closer to reality!

 

[Wet1]

The IRS really dragged their feet on this one! It will be interesting to see what numbers the manufactures will be claiming...

 

[mark_b]

The Quadra-fire 5100 claims 77%
4100 claims 76.03%
3100I claims 78%
2700I claims 74%

This is probably one of the main reasons I am considering this insert, tax credit and efficiency. I have not seen many reviews on these which is a stopper for me.

Mark

 

[Todd]

I'd really like to see (test results) how they come up with these high efficiency numbers. My stove topped out at 91%! :bug:

 

[asylum575]

I'm waiting to hear from Napoleon on their 1100C.

If it doesn't pan out, I'll go all out with a Quadrafire Isle Royale. Bigger stove and with the rebate it would come in about the same as the 1100C without the rebate.

 

[BrotherBart]

I'd really like to see (test results) how they come up with these high efficiency numbers. My stove topped out at 91%! :bug:

And the reason anybody should care is what? Time and time again it is proven here that people buy stoves based on how they look and how long somebody else claims to get them to burn overnight. Nobody ever requires manufacturers to provide the methodology for establishing burn time numbers or max BTU generation. Why should they care how the lower heating values efficiency number was calculated?

 

[asylum575]

I think the only reason I'm concerned is whether the stove will qualify for a rebate.

You're right, looks count. My wife wants cast iron with enamel. I want long burn time.

If the rebate will apply to one unit and not the other. The savings would be significant. A deal maker. I originally looked at Quadrafires, but the price shyed me away. $1500 makes a big difference. With the $1500 rebate, I can get a QF installed for what I would pay for a Napoleon installed by me. Now, If I can find a good online QF seller, I'd be in business.

 

[Todd]

I'd really like to see (test results) how they come up with these high efficiency numbers. My stove topped out at 91%! :bug:

And the reason anybody should care is what? Time and time again it is proven here that people buy stoves based on how they look and how long somebody else claims to get them to burn overnight. Nobody ever requires manufacturers to provide the methodology for establishing burn time numbers or max BTU generation. Why should they care how the lower heating values efficiency number was calculated?

I care, because like most others here I'm a stove geek and like to look at all the numbers and how they came to it.

 

[Slow1]

I care about how they come up with the numbers for several reasons. First - I want to know if they are meaningful beyond the "does this stove qualify for the rebate" - i.e. does the number really reflect anything to do with how one stove will consume fuel compared to another in real-world applications. If each mfgr is using a different methodology to qualify then the numbers are certainly not comparable. Then if they are using the same methodology and that methodology is so idealistic that it doesn't reflect anything near real-world scenarios then again it won't matter beyond the rebate qualification.

Then my favorite reason - Will the method of qualification in any way encourage stove designs and if so, in what direction? If a manufacturer were to optimize their stove for a particular test scenario to the exclusion of other environments in such a way that they numbers looked good for this but the majority of real-world installations were different AND those real-world installations had conditions such that the stove performed poorly that would be a problem eh? On the other hand, if the method of qualification correctly reflected the variety of real-world installations (doubtful) then it could be a useful way of comparing stoves for those of us who would like to get a more efficient model - thus if one stove qualified at 81% and another at 91% and all other factors were equal but cost, perhaps it would be worth a few more $'s to buy the higher rated one.

 

[asylum575]

Just got off the phone with the local dealer. Prices went up a bit, big surprise with the rebate announced.

Isle Royale installed with 2 story through the wall. $6000 with blower.
Seems high to me.

 

[Wet1]

Sounds VERY high to me!

 

[Slow1]

Now that will be an interesting trend to watch... how many dealers will try to increase their profits by raising prices through this. I expect a wait and see approach may be good - I can't imagine that all dealers will do so and those that don't will get the business. Perhaps not - what a game eh?

 

[asylum575]

I've priced out installing a Napoleon 1100C myself for $3000. That includes stove, pipe,chimney, blower, and hearth pad. If the stove qualifies for the rebate, I could claim $600-900 depending if the pipe can be included. Probably not, I think it's for the appliance. That's fine, since I installed a new door earlier this year and can take some Energystar credit for that.

I don't think I'll get the Isle Royale for $6000-$1500=$4500. Bigger stove, but twice the price.

 

[johnn]

Now that will be an interesting trend to watch... how many dealers will try to increase their profits by raising prices through this. I expect a wait and see approach may be good - I can't imagine that all dealers will do so and those that don't will get the business. Perhaps not - what a game eh?

I mentioned concern over price increases due to this "tax rebate" in the first thread that hit the board. Assuming those increases would extend beyond the creditable years. I believe the response I got was something like,,,"thats capitalism",,,sooothing.