I Have to remove my chimney liner

[kd460]

OK, so I screwed up. I thought all was well when my insert was installed this past spring. I passed inspection, but, the inspector spent all of 30 seconds in the house, and he never caught the screw up either, but I'm not blaming anyone but myself.

A little background. Heatilator e39 that has the sl300 flu pipe in a stick constructed chiney chase. A 316ti liner is installed inside the sl300 flu pipe.

A recent post discussing the temp rating of the sl300 pipe raised my concern when I discovered that the flu pipe is only rated for 1700 degrees. So, time to pull the liner and install the insulation. I do admit, I never realized the insulation was necessary. I figured it was to be used in case of a drafting problem because I figured the sl300 was "good enough".

So, my next weekend is all ready planned with a fun filled activity. Just thought I would post this so that anyone in a similiar situation can avoid the extra work.

Next concern is getting it all to fit back down the sl300 pipe. Any tricks? I hear it can be a real bear. I will probably have to have one person pulling with a rope while I'm on the roof pushing. Serves me right, flame away. KD

 

[BrotherBart]

No reason for flames. How the heck were you supposed to know? Good luck with the de/re-install.

Not to mention that if you hadn't of found out, you probably wouldn't of ever had a problem anyway. If that liner gets up to 1700 degrees I don't think a little insulation is gonna make a big poop load of difference. A fact of life is that wood burners that pay as much attention as you do don't have a hell of a lot of chimney fires.

Now, everybody flame away at ole BB while this man gets the job done.

 

[elkimmeg]

Kd what is the size of you existing vent. What if you could pour in insulation instead of pulling it.
I need to know the airspace between the liner and the 1700 degree chimney pipe dead air space has an r value of R1.0 per inch.
I would hate for you to do unnnecessary work, when a simple solution may exist.

The only flaming that counts is occuring in my wood stove now

 

[webbie]

I have to agree with Bro.

My guess is that 95% + of prefab relines do not have insulation....and also that the vast majority of owners manuals for prefab inserts also do not require it. In other words, my opinion is that it is not needed in most cases. All those numbers can confuse things - did your exact owners manual say anything?

I hate to see you do this work that is probably not needed. If it were my installation, I would probably do nothing or, as Elk mentions, just make certain that the liner was somewhat centered in the pipe....

Again, you have to use common sense in these matter. Safety is ALWAYS a matter of degree....If you do decide to go ahead with insulation, use a thin (1/4") one which would allow room around it.

Another hint if you are worried about excess heat - you might be able to vent the space between your liner and the existing inside pipe at the top - to allow excess heat to rise out. Of course, you must do it in a way that a lot of water cannot enter.

 

[DavidV]

Since I don't have any knowledge of what you should do or not do as far as safety, I can only say that the pull rope is a godsend when installing the liner. No way it would have happened here without it.

 

[BrotherBart]

Since I don't have any knowledge of what you should do or not do as far as safety, I can only say that the pull rope is a godsend when installing the liner. No way it would have happened here without it.

And pulling cones should be included in every liner kit! I think we need to start a loner program for those things on this Forum.

Seventy bucks for one to pull one liner just don't get it but passing the thing around would be a great idea.

I didn't have the option of a pull rope and ended up on my back pushing that double wall bad boy all the way up, after ovalizing with the log splitter. Wishing it had a cone on it all the way. Bashing the end in got it done finally but not an elegent solution.

BTW: Laying on your back pushing a 6 3/8 liner up a 7 inch wide flue your face discovers that you didn't get as much creosote out of that flue as you thought you did.

 

[kd460]

OK, thanks for the info/replies. I feel better.

The sl300 has an ID of 8 inch. The inner wall and the outer wall of the sl300 pipe is all ready open to air at the top. It has the heatilator st375 for a cap. Sorry, I tried to post a pic, but some reason I can't post a pic from a pdf file and all the pics I have found are from pdf files. I do have a link to the cap posted below. None of my manuals state I need insulation on the liner.

I just happened to be inspecting my chimney a few days ago to monitor creosote build up (since I'm a newbie with thi insert) and just happened to notice that I had the air gap open at the top and was concerned about the same thing-rain/debris falling in there. It seems to be protected well from rain based on the design of the chimney cap/cover which is the st375 model, but to be safe, I had planned on removing it and replacing it with the tr344 cap which I have on order. The tr344 still provides a means for heat to escape from the space between the inner and outer layers of the flu pipe, but it looks like it will do a better job of keeping debris and rain/snow out . Both can be seen at this link:

http://www.heatilator.com/products/accessories/termcaps.asp

Again, sorry, I can't seem to be able to cut and paste from a pdf file, but if you scroll down a bit and click on the numbers I just gave on that link, you will be able to see them.

The flex liner is the standard 6 inch liner (6.25 od) 316ti and the sl300 is 8 inch ID and without getting up on the roof I would say the gap between the 8 inch inner and the outer most layer of the sl300 is about 3/4 of an inch. I really need to measure it to say for sure.

The liner is pretty straight inside the sl300. I can see straight down to the inside insert box with very little wave to it. I did order a 1/4 inch insulation kit today before I posted here. I got a very good price for it. I mean very good, so if I'm gonna cancel the order, it won't be because of price. I suppose, since I ordered it on a saturday, I could cancel and no harm will be done. I doubt the guy ordered it from his supplier today (saturday), so there is time to cancel on sunday.

My biggest concern is how tight the 1/4 inch insulation (with the mesh cover as well) is gonna be inside that 8 inch pipe? Hopefully someone has some first hand experience with this size insulation inside of 8 inch pipe. If it's gonna be a witch and fight me all the way, then I will probably cancel the order. If it does not seem to be to tough, then I still have to make up my mind based on the info I have just read in your replies.

I can have the insert out in about 20 minutes, the top and bottom liner block off plates out in about a 1/2 hour, then the liner will lift right out roofside. It is less than 15 feet long. It will then be just a matter of installing the insulation to the liner, then getting it all to go back down the double wall flu. That is the concern I have. Getting the bugger back down has me worried. I hate asking friends or my neighbor for help on such a dirty job or asking them to go up on the roof for that matter. I know they would, but I feel it is asking allot of them. I do not have a pulling cone, but was gonna fab something up if I need one.

Anyhow, I feel better knowing that my house is not gonna burn down, and I was still burning, but with a mild fire, so after reading your posts, I went back to burning "normal" and am enjoying the warmth of the fire and visual of a secondary burn. Hopefully I provided you with the needed info. Thanks again, KD

 

[kd460]

I decided to NOT cancel the order for the insulation kit. When it arrives, I will be able to size everything up and go from there. If it's gonna be a tough one, then I might wait out this winter or at least untill I line up some help with it. Weather permitting. KD

 

[cheechchi]

Hi All 1st time on here.
I have an old Scandia 320 Insert Woodburning stove which was my parents. It is in excellent condition and from what I remember it used to put out some serious heat. I know its not the highest quality stove but hey it looks good and it was free.

I am trying to figure out what size flu liner I need. My flu is really big approx. 8"X 14" . I know this is way to big. I want to know if it is necessary to insulate the liner too? Is there a calculation that I can figure out the size liner I need? The door opening is 14" high X 17" wide. The opening in the rear of the stove is 4.5"X14.5". Please help me out.
Cheech

 

[jtp10181]

Please make a new thread instead of posting on this totally irrelevant ancient post from 2 years ago.

 

[suzigordon]

This is my first time and I am not particularly computer savvy. I have purchased a cottage with a Franklin Cast Products/Scandia #320 wood insert manufactured in 1979. Is there any place where I can find information/manual on how to operate and maintain this? I have plugged it in and there is not much heat coming out of the vents .

 

[kd460]

I tried a quick search on google for you and did not come up with much. However, start a new thread with your model number listed in the title, and you should get some help. Are you experienced with using a wood stove/insert?

How long a burn did you have, any trouble keeping a fire going? What type of wood? I assume you have a blower when you said "I plugged it in".

Generic burning and cleaning instructions do apply with your insert, so I am not sure hat specifics you are looking for.

Again, post a new thread and I am sure you will get some help. Good luck with it and your new cottage. KD

 

[ohio woodburner]

So since someone resurrected this ancient thread, I'll have to ask. How did your liner turn out KD? did you pull it and insulate?

 

[begreen]

This is my first time and I am not particularly computer savvy. I have purchased a cottage with a Franklin Cast Products/Scandia #320 wood insert manufactured in 1979. Is there any place where I can find information/manual on how to operate and maintain this? I have plugged it in and there is not much heat coming out of the vents .

Hi suzi, welcome. can you post your question again with your question in the topic. Your posting deserves more attention and is going to get lost in this old, unrelated thread.

 

[kd460]

So since someone resurrected this ancient thread, I'll have to ask. How did your liner turn out KD? did you pull it and insulate?

Seems like a hundred years ago, but yes, I pulled it, installed the liner and reinstalled. No issues, and the liner installation was easier then I anticipated. Did it by myself, only took a few hours toatal. But, I had a straight run, and the collar on my insert is designed to be installed on the liner and then connected from inside the stove/insert. So, I did not have to remove he insert. Or even move it at all for that matter.

Noticed an improvemt in draw, but nothing drastic. I did not have any issues with draw in the first place (other than when starting a fire from a cold no coals insert).

It's in, it works good, no muss no fuss. I clean the liner once a year, but, probably does not need that. Thanks for asking. KD

 

[Wet1]

So since someone resurrected this ancient thread, I'll have to ask. How did your liner turn out KD? did you pull it and insulate?

Seems like a hundred years ago, but yes, I pulled it, installed the liner and reinstalled. No issues, and the liner installation was easier then I anticipated. Did it by myself, only took a few hours toatal. But, I had a straight run, and the collar on my insert is designed to be installed on the liner and then connected from inside the stove/insert. So, I did not have to remove he insert. Or even move it at all for that matter.

Noticed an improvemt in draw, but nothing drastic. I did not have any issues with draw in the first place (other than when starting a fire from a cold no coals insert).

It's in, it works good, no muss no fuss. I clean the liner once a year, but, probably does not need that. Thanks for asking. KD

What I would have done, is to just block off the bottom and then filled the void with poured in granular perlite. Probably cheaper, faster, and safer.