2019-20 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[Diabel]

I used to think if stoves as “forever” items, before I was a real wood burner, similar to the way I thought of appliances when I was a child. But now I realize the tech changes quickly enough, and all of the working parts and gaskets take enough abuse over the course of a decade or two of full-time burning, that I’ve changed my perspective. Stoves are consumable, like the modern refrigerator or range. Use them 15 years, and then replace them with something far better. Building an expensive and weighty tank with a shell that will vastly outlast the working components within, or their relevance with regard to current emissions targets, is not likely the best path for any manufacturer trying to compete in a market with any cost sensitivity.

So there may be stoves out there with thicker shells than my BKs, but I don’t think I care. They generally don’t perform as well as the BK today, and will almost surely fall even shorter in comparison to the new ca.2030 BKs with which I’ll replace these, after fifteen years of full-time use and 150 cords thru the pair. Likewise, my mom has a 1953 GE fridge, and can brag it lasted longer than my last three refrigerators combined, but it uses 6x more electricity and has fewer conveniences than any of my more modern variants.

Totally agree in terms of the fridge concept. Corrosion on the the other hand is discriminate.

 

[Diabel]

We will be approaching that volume with the T6 by the next season.

You guys are putting a lot of splits through your stoves..... labour intensives

 

[Highbeam]

I have 30+ cords thru that stove as of today, in five burn seasons, in case you wanted an idea on how long they can be ignored.

I'm over 30 cords through my 2012 model princess, 32 by end of season. I did need to replace the door gasket once but the new gasket was better than the OEM job. Either due to installation method or an actual material change from BK. I will get more life from this door gasket. Starting to wonder about the bypass gasket too. The paint is falling off in a couple of spots, and a couple of bricks are cracked, but the stove is still perfectly serviceable and has proven to fit my application very well.

The new princess would be a fine replacement with better emissions numbers for 2020. Like an 85% reduction somehow.

 

[Woody Stover]

Not good
Please tell more

I guess you forgot..

What is this minor talk about BK and rust?

my door is starting to show signs it’s time to give that gasket some attention, so I guess I’ll be learning about it this summer.
I have 30+ cords thru that stove as of today, in five burn seasons, in case you wanted an idea on how long they can be ignored.

Yikes, six cords a year, in just one stove? How many cords, total, do you go through??
I'd check that bypass gasket while you're doing the door, maybe some of your heat is going up the chimney. I seem to remember you talking about smoke from the flue.
I was guilty of "ignore-ance" also, wrt the bypass gasket. I finally replaced mine after nine years. It still seemed to be sealing OK with a dollar test, but apparently old gaskets just leak more. I definitely noticed a hotter stove top over the cat, after gasket replacement, 50 degrees or so.
Manual recommends this cement.. (broken link removed to https://mid-mountain.com/wp-content/uploads/datasheets/Thermoseal%201000SF%20Cement.pdf)

now I realize the tech changes quickly enough, and all of the working parts and gaskets take enough abuse over the course of a decade or two of full-time burning, that I’ve changed my perspective. Stoves are consumable...Use them 15 years, and then replace them with something far better. Building an expensive and weighty tank with a shell that will vastly outlast the working components within, or their relevance with regard to current emissions targets, is not likely the best path for any manufacturer trying to compete in a market with any cost sensitivity.

I don't agree; Everything other than the stove body is pretty much replaceable on wood stoves.

there may be stoves out there with thicker shells than my BKs, but I don’t think I care. They generally don’t perform as well as the BK today, and will almost surely fall even shorter in comparison to the new ca.2030 BKs with which I’ll replace these, after fifteen years of full-time use and 150 cords thru the pair

Standards pretty much didn't change in 30 years, until 2020. The stoves still haven't made any major breakthroughs, so I think your assumption that magic is going to happen by the time you need a new stove, may be a bit optimistic.
I also don't think you have enough stove experience in your house to be able to proclaim that other stoves "generally don’t perform as well as the BK today." The 2020 stoves are all pretty much showing similar efficiencies, etc, to previous stoves.
Seems to me that you have stoves that are efficient at "low and slow," but you don't live in that type of house.

I cannot see my BK lasting another 10 years, but I hope both of yours do.
Mine has worked pretty hard although the F600 burns about a third of the 10 cords that I usually burn,
I will probably be changing it for something else unless BK fixes this one for me,
I'm not sure my insurance would want me to weld it up myself
webby, you're shop is outstanding to give that kind of service on a stove that old,
as is blaze king, hope my dealer is as well.

Heck yeah, if you get a free repair, great, keep ridin' it. It's a PIA to pull the stove, but what the heck..
Even if you have to weld it, that ain't too big a deal, and the insurance man will be none the wiser.

I'm not bad mouthing blaze king or the stove

I'll try to sum up where I'm coming from wrt to BK. I get accused of being a "hater." Not true; It's just that I'm not a "lover" like some that are either newbs, or came from an old smoke-blower stove or a cheap secondary burn stove. Or a tricky stove like Ashful's Jotul 12.
It wasn't long after I first started coming here that I started seeing the BK posts. Right away, my hackles went up. I knew enough about physics to know that there's no free lunch, and that all the talk at that time about "long burns because of the magic fairy pixie moon dust sprinkled on at the plant" was a load of crap. Then I saw that it was just a plate-steel stove, read the list of other problems that had arisen over the years, and wondered how people were calling it a quality stove that justified the premium price they ask.
"Cost sensitivity"..?? A thermostat isn't going to tip the scales for me. No, I've never burned a BK, but if I see one, or if I were to burn one, I'm pretty sure I'd come to similar conclusions that I now have. I could be wrong but I doubt it.
Hey, there just aren't any perfect stoves. My stove has cemented seams, which can leak air. I had an air leak on my new Ks that gradually got worse and I had to eventually patch it. Probably will get to the point in 15-20 years where patching will be a stop-gap measure, and it will need a tear-down, to some extent. Soapstone doesn't rust though, so I expect more than 6-15 years.
I'm really inclined to go with a simple non-cat at this point, after seeing how my SIL's T5 runs. No bypass gasket, no cat, easy sweep, etc. But it would have to rear-vent into a masonry fireplace, which severely limits my options at this point. I might have to look at the feasibility of raising the lintel in my fireplace..

We will be approaching that volume with the T6 by the next season.

With nothin' but a door gasket, I bet.

You guys are putting a lot of splits through your stoves..... labour intensives

I guess you got a tight house? How many cords/year?

Starting to wonder about the bypass gasket too.....stove is still perfectly serviceable and has proven to fit my application very well.
The new princess would be a fine replacement with better emissions numbers for 2020. Like an 85% reduction somehow.

Yeah, just slap in a new bypass gasket; Made a difference here..
Pull some bricks while you're at it, and report back.
Nobody's yet gotten to the bottom of how they reduced emissions that much, have they? I haven't seen any comments here..

 

[Ashful]

Yikes, six cords a year, in just one stove? How many cords, total, do you go through??

Yes, 6+ cords per year in just that one stove. I went thru about 10 cords per year for most of the last five years, and more than two thirds of that was in just this one stove.

 

[webby3650]

Nobody's yet gotten to the bottom of how they reduced emissions that much, have they? I haven't seen any comments here..

At first glance there’s only a few subtle differences that are noticeable. One thing I noticed was a new SS shield that is positioned directly behind the cat. It only has 3 small holes in it. I’m not sure what it’s purpose is, seems like it would really slow the flue gasses down. Probably makes it burn cleaner, I would also think it would really slow the stove down.
I don’t know what to think about the new stoves so far? Our Jotul is a forge, our Lopi Liberty is super sluggish and smokes when the door is opened. Not to mention the dirty glass

 

[begreen]

You guys are putting a lot of splits through your stoves..... labour intensives

Not really, it took 10+ yrs to get there. Our stove will be going on season 12 this year. Still on original bricks. Only the door gasket has been replaced.

 

[Ashful]

Not really, it took 10+ yrs to get there. Our stove will be going on season 12 this year. Still on original bricks. Only the door gasket has been replaced.

... and I'm heating a big house and shop, more than half of which is un-insulated mid-18th century stone with 26 of our 60 windows being from 1775. I'm putting roughly 400 million BTU into this house each year, versus 96 million for the average Pennsylvania home, so it's no surprise my wood usage is above average. In addition to the 10 cords of mostly oak firewood, I'm also burning 1000 gallons of oil + 2 heat pump systems + 2 electric resistive zones + 1 propane zone.

 

[Highbeam]

At first glance there’s only a few subtle differences that are noticeable. One thing I noticed was a new SS shield that is positioned directly behind the cat. It only has 3 small holes in it. I’m not sure what it’s purpose is, seems like it would really slow the flue gasses down.

So is this in addition to the welded in curtain that has been behind the cat for many years? Or instead of? Since it is stainless,it must be mounted without welding right?

 

[webby3650]

So is this in addition to the welded in curtain that has been behind the cat for many years? Or instead of? Since it is stainless,it must be mounted without welding right?

Its something new. I think it replaces the curtain. I didn’t notice how it was mounted, and I likely won’t be back to work for a while to look again.

 

[Highbeam]

Its something new. I think it replaces the curtain. I didn’t notice how it was mounted, and I likely won’t be back to work for a while to look again.

Thanks for the update. The new testing results (king and princess especially) are something BK should be proud of. I am glad it wasn't just dumb luck or testing protocols but maybe some smart tweaks.

I haven't been to the office for a couple of weeks and have fallen into the trap of a morning fire instead of an afternoon fire. We load once per day almost all year long. It feels good and is fun to warm up the house in the early AM while sipping coffee with the wife. But that means the house is coolest when we need to get out of bed! I suppose we're just settling in to a new routine. Still raining and in the 30s every morning so we need heat.

My AHJ stopped almost all residential and commercial construction this week per our governor's direction. Sucked to send people home.

 

[webby3650]

The new testing results (king and princess especially) are something BK should be proud of. I am glad it wasn't just dumb luck or testing protocols but maybe some smart tweaks.

I’m certain a lot of time And consideration went into it before testing.
The prices have spiked substantially across the board, the market has been saturated with sell offs of pre 2020 stoves and I fear the new stoves aren’t as user friendly. The 2 we’ve burned so far certainly have issues. I’m not sure how most of our customers can justify it?

 

[jetsam]

"new" epa regs are not such a big deal if you are always improving your product anyway. I don't imagine BK had a lot of overtime and hair pulling getting the new stoves to market.

How many stove companies (who do not even make cats) are field testing new generations of cats right now?

 

[AlbergSteve]

Well, this is the first night there won't be a fire in Ashford. Wife refused to let me near the stove. It got to 9c today and with the stove thermostat at 230, 2500 sq ft of house is between 26-27c. The MIL, who spends most winters at her place on the Baja or Vegas, and has been wearing more fleece than an Icelandic ewe since her return, is loving it. I suggested she remove much more clothing to get comfortable. The wife, not the MIL!

 

[Woody Stover]

Whew, that is a bit roasty, about 10hotter than we like it in here. No fire for a couple days here but that will change this week.

 

[Ashful]

my stove is still going in the stone part of the house. 1 million pounds of masonry doesn’t change temperature quickly enough to make It possible to shut down for just one or two warm days.

Stove is cold in the framed and glass addition, tho.

 

[bigaar]

I am having a terrible time with my thermostat on my Ashford 30.1.

It's getting warmer here, and I am attempting to get a good slow and long burn. I fill up the stove about an hour before I go to bed. When I wake up, I find that the stove did not run at the normal level associated with the thermostat setting it was on, and it's usually 80+ degrees in the house.

When this happens and you go to adjust the knob down even further, you can hear the stove click to maximum air restriction right away. I know this has been talked about on this forum, but I've never seen a good answer to fix the problem. When this happened every once in a while, it was annoying. Now that it happens about every night, it needs fixed.

Disclaimers: Yes, I follow all of the loading instructions in the manual. Yes, I turn the thermostat down gradually. Yes, my door gasket is tight.

 

[bholler]

I used to think if stoves as “forever” items, before I was a real wood burner, similar to the way I thought of appliances when I was a child. But now I realize the tech changes quickly enough, and all of the working parts and gaskets take enough abuse over the course of a decade or two of full-time burning, that I’ve changed my perspective. Stoves are consumable, like the modern refrigerator or range. Use them 15 years, and then replace them with something far better. Building an expensive and weighty tank with a shell that will vastly outlast the working components within, or their relevance with regard to current emissions targets, is not likely the best path for any manufacturer trying to compete in a market with any cost sensitivity.

So there may be stoves out there with thicker shells than my BKs, but I don’t think I care. They generally don’t perform as well as the BK today, and will almost surely fall even shorter in comparison to the new ca.2030 BKs with which I’ll replace these, after fifteen years of full-time use and 150 cords thru the pair. Likewise, my mom has a 1953 GE fridge, and can brag it lasted longer than my last three refrigerators combined, but it uses 6x more electricity and has fewer conveniences than any of my more modern variants.

That depends entirely upon your definition of performance. Bks out perform everything else when it comes to long low burns. But that's about it.

 

[Highbeam]

I am having a terrible time with my thermostat on my Ashford 30.1.

It's getting warmer here, and I am attempting to get a good slow and long burn. I fill up the stove about an hour before I go to bed. When I wake up, I find that the stove did not run at the normal level associated with the thermostat setting it was on, and it's usually 80+ degrees in the house.

When this happens and you go to adjust the knob down even further, you can hear the stove click to maximum air restriction right away. I know this has been talked about on this forum, but I've never seen a good answer to fix the problem. When this happened every once in a while, it was annoying. Now that it happens about every night, it needs fixed.

Disclaimers: Yes, I follow all of the loading instructions in the manual. Yes, I turn the thermostat down gradually. Yes, my door gasket is tight.

We’re still burning too. It’s late in the season though and I’m burning small loads at pretty high settings.

Just about a month ago I was having the same problem as you. The actual butterfly valve shaft had gotten sticky so that turning the knob back and forth would not click the butterfly closed. It would hang up open. You don’t want to use a lube here that will dry up into a gum so I just grabbed wd40 and an air compressor to blow out whatever was causing the stiction. Spray and blow and move the flapper until the flapper consistency closes. Freed it up nicely.

Now I’ve put like 32 cords through this stove and this is the first time for throttle shaft stickage. I use outside air so maybe cleaner than house air.

Finally, to access the throttle valve you need to remove the cover and this requires that you know how to do it right. If you don’t know, you’re supposed to call a dealer.

 

[Woody Stover]

That depends entirely upon your definition of performance.
Bks out perform everything else when it comes to long low burns. But that's about it.

Nothing like a great low-heat burn; My 1.4 cu.ft. stove is getting 24-hr. burns on Red Elm, and it's 74 in here right now, in a leaky house with no wall insulation. I don't think anything is stuck.

 

[lsucet]

I don't think anything is stuck.

Yes, your mind on 24hrs ago.

 

[Woody Stover]

Yes, your mind on 24hrs ago.

On this forum, yes. One new post every 24 hrs.
And then it's the SOS.

 

[Diabel]

It’s late in the season though and I’m burning small loads at pretty high setting

Interesting. I had a chance to play with the Princess for the past two weeks while it was relatively warm outside. I did full loads of cedar and hemlock on low. Would get 24-26h of low heat. Cat 1/4” above inactive and stove too warm to touch. On two occasions while turning the stat knob counterclockwise to around 1pm i would hear a click. Same low heat but 24h later i would have lots of unburnt wood pieces in the box. Cat stall.

 

[lsucet]

I stop looking for the click long time ago. I just go for the setting of the dial that give me the heat I need to keep everything the way I like it and depending outside weather. Can be possible that when you try to adjusted to the click the stove was calling for heat at that time and moving/closing the dial can stall the cat. I have good draft on both of my setups and can run the hole with no problems as long the outside temperature thru the day doesn't climb over the 70s. I play a set and forget for sure, if it gets too hot I open doors or windows but I don't touch the stove.

 

[Diabel]

Makes sense. I was just trying to push the stat further. Now i know.
It is interesting though @Highbeam comment. Small loads and high settings. Then in dead of winter full loads at high settings. Where is the low and slow? Or am I missing something?