2019-20 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[lsucet]

any of you fellas ever run balsam fir through your BK? i just started a small fire, with some balsam in there, and holy turkeys, i swear i could see sap and resin dripping from the cat shield for a few minutes there. ever smokey!! and, disclaimer - every single stick that went in was measured on fresh face of split between 15-18%MC

Fresh face split from outside or inside?

 

[Diabel]

any of you fellas ever run balsam fir through your BK? i just started a small fire, with some balsam in there, and holy turkeys, i swear i could see sap and resin dripping from the cat shield for a few minutes there. ever smokey!! and, disclaimer - every single stick that went in was measured on fresh face of split between 15-18%MC

I only burn my Christmas trees after the holidays. Nice and dry. I do see lots of sparks out the stack!

 

[SpaceBus]

I burn loads and loads of balsam fir in my non cat stove.

 

[Highbeam]

any of you fellas ever run balsam fir through your BK? i just started a small fire, with some balsam in there, and holy turkeys, i swear i could see sap and resin dripping from the cat shield for a few minutes there. ever smokey!! and, disclaimer - every single stick that went in was measured on fresh face of split between 15-18%MC

I have burned some very drippy douglas fir and it does create more soot, like the inside of a diesel exhaust pipe. More orange flames too, like it's burning fuel rich. The cat can't keep up with it and I'll get extra smoke during the early stages of the burn. Never any resin liquid condensing back onto the steel though. That sounds more like water.

 

[Highbeam]

I burn loads and loads of balsam fir in my non cat stove.

The noncat with it's ultra lean burn air surplus is better able to deal with the sudden dump of fuel from the pitch. I agree, the noncat burns it cleaner.

 

[Diabel]

That sounds more like water.

That is exactly what I was thinking.

Could not resist the X-mass comment.

 

[MissMac]

Fresh face split from outside or inside?

well i thought i had covered all my bases with the disclaimer - inside, for 2 days, at room temp. not a MC issue, but i agree with some of the other comments about Bf being a very 'rich' fuel and overwhelming the cat. The cat actually did really well with it once engaged, but man, when the bypass was open during start up, it was smoking something fierce! Just an observation, as i'd never thrown Bf into the Sirocco before. I think I might save it for hot reloads to avoid all that excess junk going up the stack. Thanks for all the replies fellas!

 

[Highbeam]

That is exactly what I was thinking.

Could not resist the X-mass comment.

This time of year, with high humidity and a cold stove, the water in cold smoke can easily condense onto exposed metal in the stove. Even with super dry 15% MC wood that 15% is still pure water.

We burn the Xmas tree too. Just outside!

 

[SpaceBus]

Most of the pitch in BF is in the bark, so it's no different than oak or anything else.

 

[Jeff in Maine]

Next question,..
I have decided to try to read the entire thread this year my question is how do I mark where I left off reading? Do I use the bookmark feature?
Sometimes I see "go to first unread " but tonight that is not here. Is that because I read all the posts there were last night and there have been no new ones since? I bet that's why I don't see "go to first unread" as I have read them all, maybe I just answered my own question.

 

[showrguy]

Next question,..
I have decided to try to read the entire thread this year my question is how do I mark where I left off reading? Do I use the bookmark feature?
Sometimes I see "go to first unread " but tonight that is not here. Is that because I read all the posts there were last night and there have been no new ones since? I bet that's why I don't see "go to first unread" as I have read them all, maybe I just answered my own question.

Yes you did !!

 

[Jeff in Maine]

yup when you responded I got the go to unread post thing,...small victories! Thanks

 

[sprawlnstall]

I pulled the ceramic cat on my princess tonight with the intent of replacing it. The current cat has been in for two years and run hard it was a little sluggish last spring but not terrible. upon inspection the cat looked to be in fairly good shape so I gave it a good dusting, taped a new gasket on and attempted to place it back in. After several failed attempts of trying to fit it back in because it would not fit, I tried the new cat. Right away I could feel it would go in easily. Eventually I got the old cat back in but it took a lot of effort. Any idea what is going on? Here are the before and after pics of the old cat after cleaning, does it look good enough for another year?

 

[lsucet]

Maybe the gasket needs to be a little more stretch? That all I can think of.

 

[Jeff in Maine]

I am right now going through the same thing. I ruined my original cat but rubbing it with a too long wrench when I tightened my by-pass door last Fall. I replaced that cat with a new one and it went in hard but it did go in. This year when I took off the stove pipe to vacuume the stuff off the by-pass area I aw something weird. Something that was obviously out of place. You can see the phots in an earlier post maybe page 3?.

Anyway I found out that when I put in the replacement cat in last fall I inadvertently displaced the cat deflector on the right side of the cat box. So I had to take the cat out this fall to re-position this deflector, I took the one season used cat out and re-positioned the deflector. Now I need to put that cat back in the stove but of course I needed a new gasket so I ordered an new gasket from Fire-cat and I bought 8' of it.

I used Green Painters tape to put the new gasket on the cat as tightly as possible .My used cat with new gasket will not go back in either. Long story short I used Green painters tape and the tape does not stick to the gasket material so it did not really compress the gasket as needed. So next step was removing the tape from the cat to re-tape and try to pull it tighter on the gasket to try again. Well when I tried to take the tape off large sections on the back side of the cat were stuck a little to the tape,.. and big pieces of the ceramic came out of the cat with the tape.

So the one season old cat is ruined. I have ordered a new cat from Fire-cat combustors and await it's arrival now. Any one here that has ever moved a princess stove can tell you how heavy they are. I pushed so hard on the cat flange trying to get it into place I moved the stove back 2 inches.

The tape I used did not Compress the gasket sufficiently enough to get it back into place and I know that was my issue. If you are trying to put back a cat that has been used before,.. back into the princess stove be sure to use 2" wide Masking tape not green painters tape. I have been told the masking tape will stick to the gasket better. I know this,... if I ever get the new cat back into that stove I will not touch it again till it falls apart. good luck Jeff

 

[Ashful]

So next step was removing the tape from the cat to re-tape and try to pull it tighter on the gasket to try again. Well when I tried to take the tape off large sections on the back side of the cat were stuck a little to the tape,.. and big pieces of the ceramic came out of the cat with the tape.

You must have found a new way to tape these things. The tape goes around the frame, same as the gasket. It should not be anywhere near the active part of the combustor. Here is my process, using 2” wide blue painters tape:

1. Cut one end of gasket roll nice and square.
2. Tear off a 3” length of tape, and use it to tape end of gasket to corner of combustor frame.
3. Tightly wrap gasket all the way around the frame until you’re back to the corner where you started, and cut gasket to length.
4. Take your roll of tape, and starting on top of that original 3” length you used to hold the corner in place, wrap around the entire length of the gasket, continuing past the corner where it ends by a few inches.
5. Slide fully-taped combustor into hole, ensuring all retainers are in their proper location.

It’s pretty simple, takes probably less than 3 minutes!

 

[sprawlnstall]

Jeff in Maine, I had the exact same problems you were having. The only thing that saved me was that I had a new cat on hand that was properly taped. I used the new cat as a guide to tape the old one properly. When I first tried taping it I didn't stretch it enough. I'm willing to bet your new cat will slide in easily, I started to put mine in and I could tell it would easily fit.

 

[ratsrepus]

yep, use good tape, and pull it tight. I replaced the cat in the princess this year, and took the one out of the ashford cleaned it and reinstalled it.

 

[SpaceBus]

I'm glad the worst think I'll have to deal with is replacing firebrick eventually...

 

[sprawlnstall]

Just out of curiosity what would happen if you installed the cat without the two side deflectors? What if the top portion of the gasket get pushed behind the cat when installing? During my first attempt at installing the cat without properly taping this is what was happening. I'm sure it has happened to someone and they didn't know it.

 

[Ashful]

I'm glad the worst think I'll have to deal with is replacing firebrick eventually...

Why’s that? If your stove doesn’t have a cat, then the worst thing you’ll have to deal with is pathetic short burn times. [emoji14]

Oh, and baffle stoves are not exactly maintenance free. There are countless threads on this forum about burned out baffles and damaged blankets. Pick your poison, we’re all in the same boat!

 

[SpaceBus]

Why’s that? If your stove doesn’t have a cat, then the worst thing you’ll have to deal with is pathetic short burn times. [emoji14]

Oh, and baffle stoves are not exactly maintenance free. There are countless threads on this forum about burned out baffles and damaged blankets. Pick your poison, we’re all in the same boat!

I know, I'm just poking fun. I'm glad the baffle in my stove is 3/4" cast iron with a ceramic blanket on top. There aren't even any tubes! The brick is fragile though... More fragile than I expected....

 

[begreen]

I know, I'm just poking fun. I'm glad the baffle in my stove is 3/4" cast iron with a ceramic blanket on top. There aren't even any tubes! The brick is fragile though... More fragile than I expected....

Non-cat and hybrid cat stoves have baffles of different construction. What we hear the most of are accidents due to human error. These are from people with lower cost stoves that have a baffle made of insulation board. When this baffle board gets smacked with a log from too large a load being crammed into the stove or by a top-down brushing where the baffle was not removed first, then we hear from people. There are about 10-20 posts a year about this. The one exception may be Hearthstone soapstone stoves where they use a somewhat fragile insulation board too. Perhaps this is to balance out the greater expense of the soapstone.

There are many stoves that have stainless baffles, often in combo with the secondary supply. These are pretty robust. It's what is used on the little Morso and many Jotuls, Hamptons, etc. PE stoves use a proprietary variation with a stainless baffle box. Some other tube stoves use firebrick (Lopi, Napoleon, etc.), steel plate or tougher insulation board like C-Cast on SBI stoves. All of these are robust, low maintenance designs. So far the only maintenance on our 10 yr old stove has been the door gasket.

 

[Highbeam]

I pulled the ceramic cat on my princess tonight with the intent of replacing it. The current cat has been in for two years and run hard it was a little sluggish last spring but not terrible. upon inspection the cat looked to be in fairly good shape so I gave it a good dusting, taped a new gasket on and attempted to place it back in. After several failed attempts of trying to fit it back in because it would not fit, I tried the new cat. Right away I could feel it would go in easily. Eventually I got the old cat back in but it took a lot of effort. Any idea what is going on? Here are the before and after pics of the old cat after cleaning, does it look good enough for another year?

You can't tell by looking at a cat if it is just plain worn out. You can visually see evidence of physical damage and clogging, sometimes even peeling. A properly operated cat will fail in time with zero visual evidence on the cat.

Two years is pretty short though and you noticed a little sluggishness in the spring so only 1.75 years. I believe that what you are witnessing is the hyperactivity of a fresh cat wearing off and you are just settling into the long "good enough" stage of performance. When you reach the end of this stage and you are at the death spiral you will really know it. Expect that after 10000-12000 hours of operation.

No good reason to remove a cat for cleaning unless the cells are clogged and unable to be cleared while the cat is installed. I suppose we can add "swollen cat" to the list of reasons to just leave it in there. I removed a steel cat for an acid bath test and reinstalled it with a new gasket and it slid right in like a new cat. Cost, likelihood of physical damage, waste of time, etc. are good reasons to just leave it installed.

I don't end the new gasket at the corner. I overlap the gasket about 2" on top of the cat and then draw a boxknife across the overlap at a 30 degree angle. This makes a perfect butt joint that is not likely to leak. I want a good gasket seal in the corner. 2" blue tape, not super tight but not sloppy has works fine. I too get tape on the back face of the cat slightly to be sure that the tape doesn't hang up on the cat opening and roll back as I insert it.

Oh and those stainless steel wing things are bypass retainers. They are not hard to install properly. It's a freak thing that JeffinMaine knocked one loose and also that he whacked it with a wrench and that he ripped a cat apart with masking tape. We owe Jeff a beer, he has had a rough time with it.

 

[Jeff in Maine]

I attempted to tape my combustor the way a "very experienced person" told me to. I sent this person a photo and they said the tape configuration was exactly the way they wanted me to do it. They agree the issue was the tape did not stick well to the gasket and therefore no matter how hard I tensioned the tape it would not hold the gasket well enough to compress it the desired amount.

In short in the beginning,.. the new stove ran fine but while reading the owners manual this led me to check the tightness of the by-pass door when closed at the beginning of the second season (2 falls ago) While turning the by-pass adjustment bolt the far end of the combination wrench must have grazed the back side of the combustor. ( Since then I have purchased a set of stubby wrenches) I say that because in the fall of 2017 I took the stove pipe off looked inside to vacuum out the dust if any and saw the back side of the combustor was missing a large piece 1/2" wide and 3" long east to west in the center of the cat. It was after some thought that I realized that I bet the wrench rubbed the cat when I turned it.

So last fall before this last winter I replaced the cat with a new one. When I did this it went in really hard but it did go in. I ran the stove all last winter and It worked fine.

This Fall ( last weekend) I moved the stove out removed the pipe to vacuum out any dust and just look things over. It was when I shined a flashlight in there that I saw the by-pass retainer out of position. So I posted a photo here to see what I was looking at. Chris responded and through private messages he explained what had gone on.

So I ordered a new gasket and tried to tape it up well and re-install it. While trying to push it into place I discovered that the tape was not holding and the gasket / tape on the top mating surface was "bunching up" So at this point I tried to unfasten the taper from the gasket and re-tape it better / more snugly. When I removed the tape the cells of the cat came off with the tape, thus I have ordered a new cat.

Every fall I have my son help me slide the stove out about a foot then I can remove the stove fans and take them to the shop and clean out the accumulated dust and dirt in prep for the coming winter. At this time I also take the stope pipe off sweep out the dust and vacuum the dust out from the by-pass area.