Ashful
Minister of Fire
Any problems with chimney icing, or maintaining draft, with an outdoor pipe in Canada? BK runs some crazy low flue temps...
2014-2015 Blaze King Performance thread (Everything BK)#2
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Joe dirt
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No I've never had any problems with icing. Draft at times I felt could be better but I'm thinking there should be another section of pipe with the couple of bends in set up that it has.
My Bk manual addresses the possibility of ice in the flue by saying to run it hot for awhile if ice occurs. Something like that. It's never happened to me, not even when burning in single digit temperatures. That's about as low as we get around here.
If you remove the cover you will see a stack of washers where the T-stat rod meets the T-state housing. That's the culprit, hit that with some high temp anti-seize and the problem is gone.
All of my antiseize is a grease/paste. Is disassembly required or just smear it around the area?
I put it on my finger, then turn the thermostat back and forth to work it in between the washers. Only the cover over the t-stat needs to be removed.
Figured I should bring it over here, from the "Which stove????" thread. This will be my version of "Festivus-The Airing of Grievances." 
I'm not singling you out, but of the experienced burners here, you seem to be the main drum-beater for the BKs lately. You have a ways to go to catch Dennis and the Woodstocks, but you're gaining fast. 
I haven't run one, or even seen one yet, but from early on I've dubious of the BK burn-time hype. They may have bent them a little, but they haven't re-written the laws of physics, I don't think. Now, I don't deny that they put out a decent stove, and that it will run with a minimum of attention due to the thermostat, but I have some questions. Maybe in the past, when I've asked a couple, people willing to comment didn't see them....or they all have me on "Ignore."
I'm trying to figure out the basis for the pricing. I wondered why their stoves were so light in weight, then someone said they've got about the thinnest steel of any stove out there, "10 GA."...a little over 1/8". Even the value stoves use 3/16", at least. Maybe they have some bracing in there, that's why I'd like to see one, if I ever get to a dealer. I think the Princess insert and the Buck 91 are roughly the same size but the Princess weighs in at 325, the Buck is 620, as is the IS. Granted, some of that is the Buck's 5/16" convection top, which may not serve much of a purpose, I don't know. (Looks impressively beefy, though.)
But that top alone certainly can't account for that much weight difference. Buck firebox is 1/4". I recall some other issues as well; Quality control, chintzy parts such as latches, glass gasket retainer design that looked like trouble to me, etc.
The Woodstocks and the Buck 91 that I have experience with are built like tanks, with well-engineered, quality components, by-and-large. Yeah, you can get a long burn times on low, but it's gotta be a gooey mess inside that firebox when you run it that low. I think I'd want some thicker steel there. I wonder why BKVP suggests burning out the creo once a week, and has mentioned 'erosion' or something to that effect. I wonder about the life span of their stoves, compared to others. A lot of newbies may be overly impressed by the long burn times, and buy the BKs on that basis alone. 12 or 14 hrs. from a 3 cu.ft. box, crankin' out the winter heat, longer in spring and fall, is about the best I expect from any brand of cat stove. I also want an easy, clean, quick and well-designed ash-handling system, which means a grate. BK apparently isn't spending any manufacturing money there, either. I've read you gotta shovel 'em out on the BKs (although you say the Ashford pan is usable.) Sure, you don't have to shovel a King out for weeks, but how many buckets is that gonna be? You end up with a 3 cu.ft. box, and you better schedule some time off from your job when you finally need to empty it.
Another thing I'd be concerned about would be a warped firebox side or top, but the thermostat may minimize the likelihood of of that happening. BKVP has said you can run 'em wide open with the cat engaged, but what if a rookie has too hot a fire going with the bypass open, when ramping up a cold stove? So what justifies the premium price for a plate-steel stove beside the cat, the thermostat? I'll concede that long burn time on low will make for less frequent re-loads, therefore less hassle, in the shoulder season (though not necessarily less wood used,) and that's worth something. I like the slanted front; Looks like there would be less chance of wood rolling into the glass.
I dunno, maybe a Buck 91 would command that kind of price from a dealer, where there any on the west coast. The Buck is about 3K here, maybe cheaper further east, but apparently Woodstock can sell a plate-steel hybrid, with more tech (and thicker steel, I'm guessing) for under 2K....and make it just as ugly as a King, although not as big. I think I'm in the same boat as you are. I have seen and run Woodstock and Buck cats but not any BKs; From what I know, you've not run a higher-end cat stove, other than the King and A30. I confess to being something of a Woodstock fan, but when I find a flaw or something I don't like about any stove I have experience with, I don't hesitate to post about it. To your credit, I think you have commented on a few of the design/execution flaws in the BKs, and although dissing hybrids in general, have occasionally stated that Woodstock seems to be on the right track with theirs. And of course you always dispense good advice concerning installs, safety etc. 
I also have to give BKVP credit for the help he freely gives to his customers. As I said, not wanting to single you out, but you seem to be the guy leading the BK parade here lately, and I'm looking for a few answers. Don't hesitate to tell it like it is; Nobody is reading the board now, and by the time they come back this thread will be spiraling downward into oblivion, replaced by the new Everything BK Thread- The Next Generation, and another crop of newbies will be getting in step. To my dismay, the Woodstock clan seems to have beat feet outta here...
From what you were saying, I had no idea you loved the Cape Cod!
I'm not singling you out, but of the experienced burners here, you seem to be the main drum-beater for the BKs lately. You have a ways to go to catch Dennis and the Woodstocks, but you're gaining fast. I haven't run one, or even seen one yet, but from early on I've dubious of the BK burn-time hype. They may have bent them a little, but they haven't re-written the laws of physics, I don't think. Now, I don't deny that they put out a decent stove, and that it will run with a minimum of attention due to the thermostat, but I have some questions. Maybe in the past, when I've asked a couple, people willing to comment didn't see them....or they all have me on "Ignore."
I'm trying to figure out the basis for the pricing. I wondered why their stoves were so light in weight, then someone said they've got about the thinnest steel of any stove out there, "10 GA."...a little over 1/8". Even the value stoves use 3/16", at least. Maybe they have some bracing in there, that's why I'd like to see one, if I ever get to a dealer. I think the Princess insert and the Buck 91 are roughly the same size but the Princess weighs in at 325, the Buck is 620, as is the IS. Granted, some of that is the Buck's 5/16" convection top, which may not serve much of a purpose, I don't know. (Looks impressively beefy, though.)
But that top alone certainly can't account for that much weight difference. Buck firebox is 1/4". I recall some other issues as well; Quality control, chintzy parts such as latches, glass gasket retainer design that looked like trouble to me, etc. The Woodstocks and the Buck 91 that I have experience with are built like tanks, with well-engineered, quality components, by-and-large. Yeah, you can get a long burn times on low, but it's gotta be a gooey mess inside that firebox when you run it that low. I think I'd want some thicker steel there. I wonder why BKVP suggests burning out the creo once a week, and has mentioned 'erosion' or something to that effect. I wonder about the life span of their stoves, compared to others. A lot of newbies may be overly impressed by the long burn times, and buy the BKs on that basis alone. 12 or 14 hrs. from a 3 cu.ft. box, crankin' out the winter heat, longer in spring and fall, is about the best I expect from any brand of cat stove. I also want an easy, clean, quick and well-designed ash-handling system, which means a grate. BK apparently isn't spending any manufacturing money there, either. I've read you gotta shovel 'em out on the BKs (although you say the Ashford pan is usable.) Sure, you don't have to shovel a King out for weeks, but how many buckets is that gonna be? You end up with a 3 cu.ft. box, and you better schedule some time off from your job when you finally need to empty it.
Another thing I'd be concerned about would be a warped firebox side or top, but the thermostat may minimize the likelihood of of that happening. BKVP has said you can run 'em wide open with the cat engaged, but what if a rookie has too hot a fire going with the bypass open, when ramping up a cold stove? So what justifies the premium price for a plate-steel stove beside the cat, the thermostat? I'll concede that long burn time on low will make for less frequent re-loads, therefore less hassle, in the shoulder season (though not necessarily less wood used,) and that's worth something. I like the slanted front; Looks like there would be less chance of wood rolling into the glass.
I dunno, maybe a Buck 91 would command that kind of price from a dealer, where there any on the west coast. The Buck is about 3K here, maybe cheaper further east, but apparently Woodstock can sell a plate-steel hybrid, with more tech (and thicker steel, I'm guessing) for under 2K....and make it just as ugly as a King, although not as big.
I think I'm in the same boat as you are. I have seen and run Woodstock and Buck cats but not any BKs; From what I know, you've not run a higher-end cat stove, other than the King and A30. I confess to being something of a Woodstock fan, but when I find a flaw or something I don't like about any stove I have experience with, I don't hesitate to post about it. To your credit, I think you have commented on a few of the design/execution flaws in the BKs, and although dissing hybrids in general, have occasionally stated that Woodstock seems to be on the right track with theirs. And of course you always dispense good advice concerning installs, safety etc. I also have to give BKVP credit for the help he freely gives to his customers. As I said, not wanting to single you out, but you seem to be the guy leading the BK parade here lately, and I'm looking for a few answers. Don't hesitate to tell it like it is; Nobody is reading the board now, and by the time they come back this thread will be spiraling downward into oblivion, replaced by the new Everything BK Thread- The Next Generation, and another crop of newbies will be getting in step. To my dismay, the Woodstock clan seems to have beat feet outta here...I'll try to answer a few questions.
BKs are lighter weight than a lot of other stoves on the market. They do have thinner steel but a lot of the difference in weight comes from the pumice firebricks rather than standard clay bricks. I have hauled out several 30 year old BKs that had no warpage or signs of "wearing out". Over time excessive creosote can eat away at the steel, it's only happened to half a dozen or so as far as I'm aware. It's not a normal problem to have if operated correctly.
The higher expense of a BK is courtesy of your friendly government for the most part. They have much, much higher testing expenses than other stoves due to the thermostat. It's very hard to pass the EPA tests with the thermostat, that's why no one else does it. BK has been using the thermostat design since the very beginning, pushing 40 years I think.?
You presume I haven't ran a high end cat stove. I'm not sure what that would be other than a BK or a Woodstock? It sure isn't a dutchwest or a buck! I'd love to get my hands on Woodstock, but that hasn't materialized yet.
There are huge overhead operating expenses in this business, on both the manufacturing and retail fronts. So don't think that dealers at sitting back and counting the pile of money that's being made from stove sales. If another Woodstove never got sold I'd still have a job. The hearth industry is booming with or without stove sales, me posting my own experiences and observations on here helps me in no way shape or form. This isn't the first time I've been attacked on here for being loyal to a company that goes above and beyond, probably won't be the last.
BKs are lighter weight than a lot of other stoves on the market. They do have thinner steel but a lot of the difference in weight comes from the pumice firebricks rather than standard clay bricks. I have hauled out several 30 year old BKs that had no warpage or signs of "wearing out". Over time excessive creosote can eat away at the steel, it's only happened to half a dozen or so as far as I'm aware. It's not a normal problem to have if operated correctly.
The higher expense of a BK is courtesy of your friendly government for the most part. They have much, much higher testing expenses than other stoves due to the thermostat. It's very hard to pass the EPA tests with the thermostat, that's why no one else does it. BK has been using the thermostat design since the very beginning, pushing 40 years I think.?
You presume I haven't ran a high end cat stove. I'm not sure what that would be other than a BK or a Woodstock? It sure isn't a dutchwest or a buck! I'd love to get my hands on Woodstock, but that hasn't materialized yet.
There are huge overhead operating expenses in this business, on both the manufacturing and retail fronts. So don't think that dealers at sitting back and counting the pile of money that's being made from stove sales. If another Woodstove never got sold I'd still have a job. The hearth industry is booming with or without stove sales, me posting my own experiences and observations on here helps me in no way shape or form. This isn't the first time I've been attacked on here for being loyal to a company that goes above and beyond, probably won't be the last.
No need to be sensitive. This is all good information. Thanks for pointing out the difficulties of testing a thermostatic stove. FWIW PE uses pumice bricks and Quads too I think. An Alderlea T6 outweighs the Ashford 30 by over 150 lbs.. I think that difference is in the metal. Not that the Ashford isn't a great stove. It has features I like better than the Alderlea and looks very well built. Maybe one of these days I will get a chance to try one.
I would like to see you get an Ashford and try it out. I would get it for you if I had the extra money
I purchased a BK because of all the hype and there were no disappointing surprises. I may be one of the "rookies" touting the virtues but even though this is my first cat stove I have plenty of experience heating with wood stoves in general. Enough to know that despite my infatuation with wood stoves it's probably going to be a long while before I have another stove to compare it to.
I'm not sensitive, I just really don't like my motives being called into question. It costs me lots of money to use these stoves. I make nothing from it..
Fanboy signing off.
BKVP
Minister of Fire
Woody,
I have been with Blaze King for nearly 18 years. In that time, I can count on one hand the number of consumers that have called and said our burn time claims are not up to par. And that number reduces even lower once we get all the bugs worked out. I have posted this here before and it bears repeating, I am 100% certain most other company's get more of these type of calls that we do. Yes there is only so much heat in a stick of wood, but no other product manages that potential better and provides the heat distribution as evenly.
The top plate of our stoves is 1/4" thick. You pointed out the use of 10 gauge, but not the 1/2" thickness of the by pass plate and other components exposed to excessive temperatures. When you try to build a solid fuel heater that does not use a catalytic combustor, you must burn much hotter in order to break down the particulate. In fact more than twice the temp needed if a catalytic combustor is involved. So while materials thicknesses vary greatly throughout the industry, the quality in our products is unmatched. Try to find some used Blaze King's that are 30+ years of age and check them out.
As for the thermostat, yes it is very hard to pass an emissions test when the burn being done must fall within a given burn rate (defined in Kg/hr.). The thermostat moves throughout the burn cycle and in doing so, produces the most even heat distribution of any solid fuel heater, yes even furnaces. It is a whole lot easier to hit your burn rates if your product only has a hole and plate to cover that hole! We know this to be the case because we make both technologies.
I would invite you to call me any time. In fact, pm me and I'll give you my cell number so that you can call at your convenience. Woody, I love your post. I love the challenge you posted and so long as you are open to the learning of how our products excel, we can have a great dialogue.
One last point. Webby is a great guy. He spends almost as much time on the site as Begreen. Have you taken notice of how many posts Webby has with other models of stoves? Lots and lots. His Blaze King contribution is based on his experience with our products and a whole lot of other products. There are not too many other retailers that post here with his level of experience on our products. His efforts ar genuine. And no, he does not get any kick back, although I think I did buy dinner once for him and his crew. I'd do the same for you...
Chris
I have been with Blaze King for nearly 18 years. In that time, I can count on one hand the number of consumers that have called and said our burn time claims are not up to par. And that number reduces even lower once we get all the bugs worked out. I have posted this here before and it bears repeating, I am 100% certain most other company's get more of these type of calls that we do. Yes there is only so much heat in a stick of wood, but no other product manages that potential better and provides the heat distribution as evenly.
The top plate of our stoves is 1/4" thick. You pointed out the use of 10 gauge, but not the 1/2" thickness of the by pass plate and other components exposed to excessive temperatures. When you try to build a solid fuel heater that does not use a catalytic combustor, you must burn much hotter in order to break down the particulate. In fact more than twice the temp needed if a catalytic combustor is involved. So while materials thicknesses vary greatly throughout the industry, the quality in our products is unmatched. Try to find some used Blaze King's that are 30+ years of age and check them out.
As for the thermostat, yes it is very hard to pass an emissions test when the burn being done must fall within a given burn rate (defined in Kg/hr.). The thermostat moves throughout the burn cycle and in doing so, produces the most even heat distribution of any solid fuel heater, yes even furnaces. It is a whole lot easier to hit your burn rates if your product only has a hole and plate to cover that hole! We know this to be the case because we make both technologies.
I would invite you to call me any time. In fact, pm me and I'll give you my cell number so that you can call at your convenience. Woody, I love your post. I love the challenge you posted and so long as you are open to the learning of how our products excel, we can have a great dialogue.
One last point. Webby is a great guy. He spends almost as much time on the site as Begreen. Have you taken notice of how many posts Webby has with other models of stoves? Lots and lots. His Blaze King contribution is based on his experience with our products and a whole lot of other products. There are not too many other retailers that post here with his level of experience on our products. His efforts ar genuine. And no, he does not get any kick back, although I think I did buy dinner once for him and his crew. I'd do the same for you...
Chris
Figured I should bring it over here, from the "Which stove????" thread. This will be my version of "Festivus-The Airing of Grievances."
I haven't run one, or even seen one yet, but from early on I've dubious of the BK burn-time hype. They may have bent them a little, but they haven't re-written the laws of physics, I don't think. Now, I don't deny that they put out a decent stove, and that it will run with a minimum of attention due to the thermostat, but I have some questions. Maybe in the past, when I've asked a couple, people willing to comment didn't see them....or they all have me on "Ignore."
I'm trying to figure out the basis for the pricing. I wondered why their stoves were so light in weight, then someone said they've got about the thinnest steel of any stove out there, "10 GA."...a little over 1/8". Even the value stoves use 3/16", at least. Maybe they have some bracing in there, that's why I'd like to see one, if I ever get to a dealer. I think the Princess insert and the Buck 91 are roughly the same size but the Princess weighs in at 325, the Buck is 620, as is the IS. Granted, some of that is the Buck's 5/16" convection top, which may not serve much of a purpose, I don't know. (Looks impressively beefy, though.)
The Woodstocks and the Buck 91 that I have experience with are built like tanks, with well-engineered, quality components, by-and-large. Yeah, you can get a long burn times on low, but it's gotta be a gooey mess inside that firebox when you run it that low. I think I'd want some thicker steel there. I wonder why BKVP suggests burning out the creo once a week, and has mentioned 'erosion' or something to that effect. I wonder about the life span of their stoves, compared to others. A lot of newbies may be overly impressed by the long burn times, and buy the BKs on that basis alone. 12 or 14 hrs. from a 3 cu.ft. box, crankin' out the winter heat, longer in spring and fall, is about the best I expect from any brand of cat stove. I also want an easy, clean, quick and well-designed ash-handling system, which means a grate. BK apparently isn't spending any manufacturing money there, either. I've read you gotta shovel 'em out on the BKs (although you say the Ashford pan is usable.) Sure, you don't have to shovel a King out for weeks, but how many buckets is that gonna be? You end up with a 3 cu.ft. box, and you better schedule some time off from your job when you finally need to empty it.
Another thing I'd be concerned about would be a warped firebox side or top, but the thermostat may minimize the likelihood of of that happening. BKVP has said you can run 'em wide open with the cat engaged, but what if a rookie has too hot a fire going with the bypass open, when ramping up a cold stove? So what justifies the premium price for a plate-steel stove beside the cat, the thermostat? I'll concede that long burn time on low will make for less frequent re-loads, therefore less hassle, in the shoulder season (though not necessarily less wood used,) and that's worth something. I like the slanted front; Looks like there would be less chance of wood rolling into the glass.
I dunno, maybe a Buck 91 would command that kind of price from a dealer, where there any on the west coast. The Buck is about 3K here, maybe cheaper further east, but apparently Woodstock can sell a plate-steel hybrid, with more tech (and thicker steel, I'm guessing) for under 2K....and make it just as ugly as a King, although not as big.
I love that you are able to pass on to your customers real world experience instead of hypothesis and unwarranted bias. Keep trying new stoves. I'm looking forward to the Enerzone report.
Do you know when they went to the thinner steel, or did the 30 year old stoves have it as well? These stoves that had excessive creo erosion, did you see it firsthand? Where did the erosion occur? Did it compromise the stove's structural integrity? I saw a slight amount in the Buck when I took the bricks out, on the floor behind the back bricks, which makes sense since it's the coolest part of the stove.This was on a used stove, so I don't know how it was run before I got it. I always made sure the cat was burning well before I left so I don't think the stove was smoldering to the point where it was very cool; It was always cranking pretty decent until the wood had largely gassed out.
Interesting. I would think the thermostat would get a nice flat-line burn and would handle the emissions, no problem. Maybe if they tried to run it too low, the cat would start to drop out, and the cat/thermostat combo is more problematic when it comes to testing? Any info on what makes it harder to pass with a thermostat?
No, it's not a Dutchwest.
The Buck 91 is a nice piece of work, though. Built heavy-duty, and the hardware such as door latches and air controls are well-designed, easily replaceable if needed, and durable. It has a separate doghouse air control, which is handy when ramping up a fresh load. Other stoves I've looked at, like Enerzone, are cheesy in comparison, sheet metal air shutters, etc. I expect the BKs to be built better than that, but I'll be impressed if their quality is even close that of the Buck. I suspect that some of the other straight cats, like the Appalachian and High Valley are more cheaply-built versions of the Buck. My neighbor has a County Flame BBF that seems pretty well built, but haven't looked at it all that closely yet. Not sure about some of the others, like Kuma, High Sierra and so on...could be quality cat units. When some of these companies like Regency, Lopi and the like refine their new hybrid technology, I expect the selection of high-quality, long-burning heaters to increase dramatically. Woodstock seems to have the jump on everyone so far, with a high degree of control over burn modes, heat output, and long burn times, but they are still pretty new and don't have a track record. And with the new EPA regs, we may see more straight cats as well.I don't recall many attacks, and I'm not attacking you now. Just observing that your recommendations of stoves other than the BK cats have been few and far between lately when compared to, say, Grisu or begreen for example. Few here have their product knowledge, though.
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Ya I saw the issue with the corrosion first hand in one of the stoves. It was in the back of the stove. This King was in a super insulated 900 square foot house in Indiana. The guy was scared to death of the stove, never let it get hot in the 9 years he used it. It was completely full of nasty creosote.
Blaze King took the stove back to their shop, welded a new back on it, painted it, replaced anything that was worn (handles,gaskets, cat probe etc) as well as any upgrades that have came out since it was new. Shipped it back to Indiana and only charged the guy for shipping one way. I think it was around $200.
Blaze King took the stove back to their shop, welded a new back on it, painted it, replaced anything that was worn (handles,gaskets, cat probe etc) as well as any upgrades that have came out since it was new. Shipped it back to Indiana and only charged the guy for shipping one way. I think it was around $200.
Figured I should bring it over here, from the "Which stove????" thread. This will be my version of "Festivus-The Airing of Grievances."
I haven't run one, or even seen one yet, but from early on I've dubious of the BK burn-time hype. They may have bent them a little, but they haven't re-written the laws of physics, I don't think. Now, I don't deny that they put out a decent stove, and that it will run with a minimum of attention due to the thermostat, but I have some questions. Maybe in the past, when I've asked a couple, people willing to comment didn't see them....or they all have me on "Ignore."
I'm trying to figure out the basis for the pricing. I wondered why their stoves were so light in weight, then someone said they've got about the thinnest steel of any stove out there, "10 GA."...a little over 1/8". Even the value stoves use 3/16", at least. Maybe they have some bracing in there, that's why I'd like to see one, if I ever get to a dealer. I think the Princess insert and the Buck 91 are roughly the same size but the Princess weighs in at 325, the Buck is 620, as is the IS. Granted, some of that is the Buck's 5/16" convection top, which may not serve much of a purpose, I don't know. (Looks impressively beefy, though.)
The Woodstocks and the Buck 91 that I have experience with are built like tanks, with well-engineered, quality components, by-and-large. Yeah, you can get a long burn times on low, but it's gotta be a gooey mess inside that firebox when you run it that low. I think I'd want some thicker steel there. I wonder why BKVP suggests burning out the creo once a week, and has mentioned 'erosion' or something to that effect. I wonder about the life span of their stoves, compared to others. A lot of newbies may be overly impressed by the long burn times, and buy the BKs on that basis alone. 12 or 14 hrs. from a 3 cu.ft. box, crankin' out the winter heat, longer in spring and fall, is about the best I expect from any brand of cat stove. I also want an easy, clean, quick and well-designed ash-handling system, which means a grate. BK apparently isn't spending any manufacturing money there, either. I've read you gotta shovel 'em out on the BKs (although you say the Ashford pan is usable.) Sure, you don't have to shovel a King out for weeks, but how many buckets is that gonna be? You end up with a 3 cu.ft. box, and you better schedule some time off from your job when you finally need to empty it.
Another thing I'd be concerned about would be a warped firebox side or top, but the thermostat may minimize the likelihood of of that happening. BKVP has said you can run 'em wide open with the cat engaged, but what if a rookie has too hot a fire going with the bypass open, when ramping up a cold stove? So what justifies the premium price for a plate-steel stove beside the cat, the thermostat? I'll concede that long burn time on low will make for less frequent re-loads, therefore less hassle, in the shoulder season (though not necessarily less wood used,) and that's worth something. I like the slanted front; Looks like there would be less chance of wood rolling into the glass.
I dunno, maybe a Buck 91 would command that kind of price from a dealer, where there any on the west coast. The Buck is about 3K here, maybe cheaper further east, but apparently Woodstock can sell a plate-steel hybrid, with more tech (and thicker steel, I'm guessing) for under 2K....and make it just as ugly as a King, although not as big.
Big post. Hey, the diehards are still here on the site even after enduring triple digit temps all day! Maybe I can try a stab at a few of these.
Webby owns a BK and has experience with them so he is confident recommending the BK stoves when the situation calls for it. Thing is, the situation often calls for it. The BKs are superior to all other stoves in a couple of ways and the option is strong if those factors are important. He probably thinks I have attacked him but I hope he understands the difference between disagreeing with a position and attacking a person. Regardless I would not call him "fanboy", his contributions are genuine and valuable. I'd like to think that our opinions align about 99% of the time.
Here in the west, the BK stoves are still under 3000$ fully optioned out. At least my princess was. You eastern folks have historically suffered from a poor distributor situation where a middleman was taking a huge profit. Maybe that situation is gone and maybe not. It will always cost more to ship product farther but that is a much smaller cost than the previous east coast penalty. When I bought my 3000$ BK I compared it to other mainstream stoves from Lopi, hearthstone, and even PE. The BK was only slightly more expensive despite huge leaps in performance specifications. The PE T6 that BeGreen operates is priced at 2900$ right now for example. This is without any options. The plane jane hearthstone mansfield retails for 3495. So you see the BK stoves are not high priced compared to other stoves that are available at stove dealerships. They are more expensive than stoves like my NC30 from home depot and mail order stoves from Woodstock. Note that the cheap IS from Woodstock is only an introductory price and is set to go up.
Steel plate stoves have been overbuilt for decades. There is no correlation between quality and steel thickness. In fact, you might say the opposite that thick steel is a way to hide poor engineering. What value does thicker steel offer when a thinner plate would not fail? Thermal mass? Unnecessary when the cat provides heat for 30 hours. Obviously, if the thinner plate of the BK line was failing then there is a need to thicken it but we don't see that. We almost never even hear about cracks which can't be said for other brands.
The ash handling system on the BK is like most other stoves. A plug and unsealed small pan. It works okay, I've used it, but the biggest drawback is the small pan volume. This is a design decision and another one of those factors that either is or is not important to you.
I share the opinion that you perceive from webby. Hybrids are not ready for mainstream yet but the outfit that is closest seems to be Woodstock. If BK went away then I would be looking at a Woodstock as #2. Before Woodstock made hybrids they were really pushing the virtues of a cat stove. Long burn times and steady output. That's where the real burners want to be. All current hybrids are crippled by excessively short burntimes when compared to a real cat stove from BK. Why would they do this? These aren't stupid people but they have a different engineering philosophy. They went for low emissions and high output with little concern for a wide range of available burn rates. They did it and if you want that then the WS offers a decent option.
Thank for the summertime posts. Keeps us sane.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I can say, having spent waaaaaay to much time on this form in the last 3 - 4 years, I bought two BK's based almost entirely on my observation of threads on this forum. Numerous satisfied customers, most in regions colder than my own, with low percentage of problems. Yes, there have been a few door gasket and smoke smell issues, but BK seems to be doing everything possible to address those very few isolated cases, and this may just be one of the issues that goes hand in hand with getting 10 hours burn time per cubic foot of firebox.
I have seen many comments on their thinner steel boxes, but have not seen a SINGLE incidence of one failing.
I have seen many comments on their thinner steel boxes, but have not seen a SINGLE incidence of one failing.
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