I really wanted my Harman P68. I liked what I saw in the store and decided it was the ideal pellet stove. That was back in May. Now it is September 11 and my dealer says Harman still has no further information or updates to offer since July. It is time to move on. Tomorrow I cancel my order and purchase a Quadrafire Mount Vernon AE. I am totally phyched. I will be ready for the heating season when it arrives now. Thank you Quadrafire for making enough stoves to meet the awesome demand we have up here in Vermont. Those of you sticking with Harman, best of luck and I really hope things work out. I harbour no bitterness toward Harman, they have the right to run their business anyway they see fit, just dissapointment. They are an awesome stove as well.
I'm bailing on Harman
- Thread starter MrJitters
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Quad owns Harman. I hope you can get the Quad as they are having delivery issues as well. But then again all stove makers cannot keep up with demand
MrJitters said:
Both Quadrafire and Harman are owned by the same parent company.
Hearth & Home Technologies.
If you dont mind me asking.What is the name of the dealer that has the the MT Vernon AE in stock.
Thank you.I will call them tommorow.My dealer here is really starting to aggitate me.I ordered in early june and was told 8wks then 4 more then maybe the end of november.The stoves orderd in may will be on the next truck which apparently still hasnt shown up yet.I would really be curious to know if anyone has gotten their stove from these clowns.I would certainly spend a day on a road trip to pick up the stove that i want.
I ordered my Harman P68 in early June. In July after the dealer's meeting with Harman, my dealer contacted me and gave me a delivery date of March 2009. He did say depending on the anticipated cancellations, it may be sooner than that, but of course didn't make any promises. I stopped by a few weeks ago and asked if they have had any shipments in yet; I was told no. While I did not expect my stove before January or February (expecting that many unhappy people went elsewhere so maybe I'd move up the list), I would have thought some stoves would have started to trickle in by now. I guess my dealer is smart by giving me that March 2009 date, so I really can't start crabbing at him why isn't it here yet. My guess is that's a more realistic date than November for a stove ordered in early June. The dealers should be contacting Harman and Harman should be giving them realistic time frames on deliveries and then telling people these dates, as opposed maybe 8 weeks, maybe 12 weeks etc. It's just ticking people off more. In the end, it's very bad for business for the dealers and Harman, and any other manufacturing who can't keep up with demand. By the way, I'd be very happy to be wrong about these delivery dates for me and everyone else waiting for a stove.
I'd hold out for the harman, just spoke with my inlaws this weekend who have a 2 year old Quad insert that only worked 1/2 the time last winter and has spent all summer at the stove shop being worked on. Instant gratification does not always provide the best long term experience.
Good luck.
Good luck.
mascoma said:
Yes point taken. After reading all the negative press about the Quad here and on other sites I have had second thoughts. It is my understanding that the issues have been fixed, but that will require a heating season of operation for proof. Their track record has been less than stellar.
You have to be careful and take all this with a grain of salt. Quad has lots of success stories here as well as issues. Harman has lots of issues as well as success stories. Both are now owned by the same company. If you think Quad was lower quality then maybe there's hope that Harman's quality will influence the Quad operation and they'll be better.MrJitters said:
Or it could be like what happened when Chrysler & Mercedes merged
Personally, the cynic in me expects the lowest common denominator to prevail.
HON industries = Hearth & Home Technologies = Quadrafire and Harman and Heat n Glo and Heatilator
I interpreted your post as saying "they don't want my money, I'll take it out of their pocket and put it in someone else's" When in all reality all you'd be doing is taking your money out of their left pocket and putting it in their right pocket.
I interpreted your post as saying "they don't want my money, I'll take it out of their pocket and put it in someone else's" When in all reality all you'd be doing is taking your money out of their left pocket and putting it in their right pocket.
Shane: I am sure Harman wants my money and I would be more than glad to give it to them if it could only work out. Sad, but that appears unlikely now. Thanx for your help.
DiggerJim: I hear what you are saying and you make exteremly valid points. A new point for me to ponder today. My dealer today confided in me that my Harman P68 will not ship until May 2009. That of course will not work for me. That is just the worst possible news I could have received (pellet burning related of course )
So now the on again off again saga with the Quadrafire MV AE is back on. Lord, this is starting to take on a life of it's own. :lol:
It now looks like the dealer has about 25 or so MV, is trying to help out Harman customers and then start moving them elsewhere. I need to make up my mind and get off the fence, I will tell you that. Any advice from you xperts here would be appreciated.
DiggerJim: I hear what you are saying and you make exteremly valid points. A new point for me to ponder today. My dealer today confided in me that my Harman P68 will not ship until May 2009. That of course will not work for me. That is just the worst possible news I could have received (pellet burning related of course
)So now the on again off again saga with the Quadrafire MV AE is back on. Lord, this is starting to take on a life of it's own. :lol:
It now looks like the dealer has about 25 or so MV, is trying to help out Harman customers and then start moving them elsewhere. I need to make up my mind and get off the fence, I will tell you that. Any advice from you xperts here would be appreciated.
MrJitters said:
I bought my Harman P68 from MSW several years ago. Now, I'm looking to replace the sensor wire (one of my cats thinks it's a toy and won't stop chewing). I refuse to deal with MSW ever again, so any suggestions on where I can get a replacement sensor wire would be wonderful.
Hope you have better luck with MSW than I did. After I bought my P68, I had some problems with it going out and not coming back on. I'd have to play around, doing all kinds of things, shutting it off and then turning it back on and usually, after about an hour of playing around and turning it off and on several times, it would relight. The owner of MSW got really disgusted with me and said it was "operator error" and Henry came out and cleaned the stove (I'd been using it maybe two months at that point) and told me that the problem was it was too cold outside. When I questioned him about why I would need a stove if it was warm outside, he then said it was too cold inside. After writing to Harman, MSW came out and replaced the mother board (the owner, I think that's Ray, had whined to me on the phone about how he would have to pay for it if Harman found nothing wrong with it - I just wanted my stove to work and given that I'd just paid over $4,000 for the stove, I didn't really care what it took to make it work right!). In the 3 years since that time, I've never had another problem with the stove. I would strongly recommend a Harman, especially the P68, but I would caution you or anyone about MSW. After they get your money, they don't care about service at all.
Thank you for that insight on MSW. I have to add I am not too impressed with them up to this point. The thought of shelling out close to 4K for a Quad (as a P68 replacement) is just not very appealing to me.. Their cavalier attitude over the Harman "debacle" has not endeared them to me very much. These pellet stoves are so computerized and mechanically intensive that it is a must for me to buy one from a dealer who has a great reputation for service. Seems like MSW is NOT the one.
it's maybe not fair to add some oil to the fire.
But why do people put up with these delays.
I would not have a problem of 1 to 3months, but any longer delay than that, just calls for pulling the plug.
As it is not a question of budget with a harman product, there are myriads of alternatives available and are probably as good too.
But why do people put up with these delays.
I would not have a problem of 1 to 3months, but any longer delay than that, just calls for pulling the plug.
As it is not a question of budget with a harman product, there are myriads of alternatives available and are probably as good too.
There definately is a perception on the East Coast that there are "pellet stoves" and "HARMAN pellet stoves". There certainly are equivilant brands. I heard a saying one time that rings true "there are no brands in the stove industry" What they meant is the brands are built on a local and regional level. It's not like Ford or Pepsi with billion dollar national advertising campaigns. Promotion of the industry generally lies with the mom and pop shops and thus the best brand in a region or town is generally the one that mom and pop sell the most of.
It seems many dealers here in New England talk about and carry Harman. I'm sure it's a very good unit but I rarely go with the grain when there are other prudent choices out there. I researched and one of my deciding factors was availability. I just placed an order for a Lopi Yankee Bay as I can get it at the end of December. Harmans were much further out. The dealer I bought it from is also a Harman dealer and I asked him if he had the Lopi and Harman units in stock and I could purchase that day, which one would he recommend. He stated the Lopi was the way to go. I know there are many satisfied Harman customers out there and I have talked with numerous Lopi customers who are also satisfied.
I guess one just needs to do the research and buy what's best for them - not what others dictate (dealer or user), although their input is definitely valuable.
I guess one just needs to do the research and buy what's best for them - not what others dictate (dealer or user), although their input is definitely valuable.
The short story is that Harman can't make stoves fast enough. The long explaination is there is a major jump in demand and they are building as fast as possible. They are adding to the production capacity and it will get better but things take time. I still have stoves because we ordered them months ago to stock them in house. The industry is trying to move away from early buy programs and into in season deliveries to help the local dealers with cash flow. I just went to Harman's factory Friday to get a load I ordered in May. Yes The parent company that owns Quad owns Harman yet they so far are keeping the lines separate. We may see some intermingling of technology in the years ahead but not right away to my knowledge.
I recently picked up a P38 from a dealer in Greece, NY. I had to travel 1000 miles to get it back to my house (he wouldn't ship it outside his "sales zone") but at least I have it. It's sad that Harman doesn't allow dealers to ship nationally if/when they have stoves in stock. Interesting sales model.
I've managed to order the part to my P68 through a dealer in NH. I just wish Harman would find another dealer in VT.
Oh, for anyone else considering MSW, I was speaking to someone over the weekend who said that when he went into MSW, they acted like he was invisible. He said there were a couple of other customers, but nobody was helping them either. He said when he left, one of the other couples also left and told him they had waited a half hour and nobody ever even spoke to them. The guy I was speaking with then went and bought a pellet stove somewhere else and was going to install himself, but he had nothing good to say about MSW either.
Oh, for anyone else considering MSW, I was speaking to someone over the weekend who said that when he went into MSW, they acted like he was invisible. He said there were a couple of other customers, but nobody was helping them either. He said when he left, one of the other couples also left and told him they had waited a half hour and nobody ever even spoke to them. The guy I was speaking with then went and bought a pellet stove somewhere else and was going to install himself, but he had nothing good to say about MSW either.
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