1st stove: Catalytic or non-cat for burning Boxelder

[Fargo]

Hey guys. I joined about 8 years ago dreaming about wood stoves. It still hasn't happened yet, but I'm dreaming again. So here is my situation. I live in rural ND on a farmsite with a shelter belt consisting of mostly boxelder trees (and some cottonwood). So my fuel will be almost exclusively Boxelder. As I understand it, boxelder isn't a great burning wood, but I think its better than pine. So with that fuel in mind, should I be looking for a stove with a catalytic converter or a non-cat stove?

The stove will be installed in an insulated basement rec room with a semi open staircase to allow heat to draft up to the main floor living room. This will be a supplemental heating system for the coldest 2-3 months of the year. I have an electric forced air furnace that will be my primary heat source. The wood stove is intended to take the edge off of heating bills, provide additional warmth and just be nice to enjoy from time to time. Additionally, I am somewhat prepper minded and it will be used for emergency backup heat. Last winter we lost power for 3 days and I didn't have any heat source. So the wood stove will provide heat during extended times of emergency power loss.

So with all that in mind, the biggest question I am facing as I start the process is if I should be considering a cat or a non-cat stove. Will the burn qualities of boxelder dictate one or the other? Will I be able to keep a non-cat warm enough for the secondary burners to remain active? Or will I end up with a chimney full of creosote? Or on the other hand, will the poor quality wood just plug up the cat so often that I would be better off without a catalytic converter? Or is boxelder really not that bad? As you can see I am spinning in circles trying to figure out what type of stove best fits the fuel I have to burn.

 

[stoveliker]

The fuel doesn't matter for this choice.
Pine is not bad at all. And I believe boxelder to be similar BTU range. Tube stoves do fine with either.

This should in no way determine what type of stove you get.

 

[stovelark]

I believe box elder falls under hardwoods, so if thats what you have to burn, it'll be fine if its seasoned enough. That is the key for either type of stove, good dry seasoned wood, albeit softwoods or hardwoods. Most people would probably say a non cat would be easier to use and run, but nothing wrong with cat stoves, if operated correctly. Good luck with your venture.

 

[all night moe]

Pick which ever stove you prefer and can afford.
You are better off buying wood by the log truck. Box elder is not worth the time. Unless you want bonfire fuel.

 

[stoveliker]

I disagree. Boxelder has 17.9 million BTU per cord. Perfectly fine. Not the most but it'll work great.

 

[all night moe]

If I get any removals of it, I'll deliver it to you. What doesn't fit through the chipper that is.
I hate the stuff.

 

[kborndale]

Hardwoods are scarce in many parts of the country / world. Burn whatever is available as long as it is properly seasoned.

 

[Fargo]

I understand boxelder is not great. But as @kborndale pointed out, hardwoods are not abundant around here. Oak can be purchased but its not abundant. Besides, I am already handling the boxelder as I clean up the yard. So its readily available and I am already cutting it up just to clean it out.

My concern was if it will burn ok. I didn't know if I could burn it in a cat stove without damaging the cat or shortening the life of the cat. Or if I can keep a tube stove hot enough to burn clean and not create excess soot in the chimney. Its because I knew it wasn't a very good wood that I wanted to make sure that I could burn it in a stove. I wanted to see if I could get some insight as to which stove might handle it better. If it was going to cause issues with one type of stove or burn significantly better in one type of stove, that would go a long way in directing my decision on which type of stove to get. But if Stoveliker and Stovelark are correct, I should be fine with either type of stove. Which is a good thing.

 

[kborndale]

Softwoods are fine in any stove, they burn hot and fast. They also season quickly.

 

[kennyp2339]

I maybe against the grain of thought here, but I would lean towards a cat stove vs tube stove for burning softer or less btu woods, my reasoning, in order for a tube stove to start reburning it needs to get up to temp and then secondary combustion usually from an unregulated air control enters for reburn, the hotter the stove the faster the reburn, hence why your chasing the dragon faster with softer woods, a cat stove to me would give better control of the burn, perhaps slowing things down for a longer more stable burn.

 

[all night moe]

I maybe against the grain of thought here, but I would lean towards a cat stove vs tube stove for burning softer or less btu woods, my reasoning, in order for a tube stove to start reburning it needs to get up to temp and then secondary combustion usually from an unregulated air control enters for reburn, the hotter the stove the faster the reburn, hence why your chasing the dragon faster with softer woods, a cat stove to me would give better control of the burn, perhaps slowing things down for a longer more stable burn.

I agree. That is a very logical statement.

@Fargo if you do lean towards a cat, might as well splurge for a Blaze King. The king of cat stoves. Kenny and stoveliker both have one.
Huge following of BK stoves and, for good reason.

 

[stoveliker]

On the other hand, many many folks in the North and PNW burn only softwoods with tube stoves and are (appropriately) quite content doing so.

I maintain that the fuel you have should have no role in finding a stove for your situation.

Flue height, burning habits (occasional, fulltime), heat output (!), and (the significant other's) aesthetic taste are all more important than an incremental advantage of one (or the other type) in order to find a stove that fits your needs and wishes.

Both types can burn soft(er) woods without issue if they are set up well and operated per mfg guidelines.

 

[ManitobaSky]

I burnt primarily aspen and my father still does, Box Elder aka Manitoba Maple is a step up from aspen. We do have some elm, oak and ash but not much. Buy they stove you want and burn the wood you have.

 

[Fargo]

Thanks for all the help guys. It really sounds like I'll be OK with either setup. I like the long controled burn and clean emissions promised by the catalytic stoves. But I also like the simplicity of a cat free stove. I don't want to be having to purchase new cats every 5 years. And since its a secondary or emergency heat source, I'm not sure I need to have perfect control of the heat. I might be better served by something that is reliable with little maintenance, durable, and simple to operate. So now I get to dig even deeper into the rabbit hole of which stoves I like.

I have a few favorites already. (Including Pacific Energy and Blaze King as mentioned above) Unfortunately, I'm not finding installers in the area for something purchased online like a Woodstock stove. (Nor do I have a local dealer for the BK or PE). So those options are probably not available unless some of the dealers can travel 100 miles to do the install. I did talk to a PE dealer a couple hours away and he might travel the distance, but his rough estimate for an Alderlea install was something like $3000 more than a local dealer would install and osburn2000. So unless those PEs are that much more expensive, he is charging a lot for that drive.

So I think my choices will be limited by what brands are handled by the local stores who have their own installers. Not terrible choices as I have brands like: Osburn, Hearthstone, Jotul, Quadrafire, Regency, Enviro, MF Fire, Kuma, and Ambiance. There's a couple stoves in the list that look OK. But nothing has jumped out to me. Since, I'm undecided on cat or not, is there any brands in that list to keep away from or something that I should look more closely at? Let me know what you guys know about the brands listed above. Thanks

 

[all night moe]

So I think my choices will be limited by what brands are handled by the local stores who have their own installers. Not terrible choices as I have brands like: Osburn, Hearthstone, Jotul, Quadrafire, Regency, Enviro, MF Fire, Kuma, and Ambiance. There's a couple stoves in the list that look OK. But nothing has jumped out to me. Since, I'm undecided on cat or not, is there any brands in that list to keep away from or something that I should look more closely at? Let me know what you guys know about the brands listed above.

I have my pick in the line up but, I'll wait for others to chime in. This is one for @begreen . He always has good info and recommendations.

 

[EbS-P]

For someone who wants supplemental heat I think a cheaper non cat like a Drolet is a good choice. My reasoning is when you want to supplement you want a good amount of heat (Quite a bit more more heat than a BK on low) and that really is the main advantage of a cat stove low and slow.

Take what you save and think about a heatpump, insulation/air sealing upgrades, or battery power station or generator.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

If you’re reasonably handy, installing your own stove isn’t hard.

Since you’re going to be looking at it for 15+ years, buy the one you like. Your choice may be just important as winter coat or boot choice.

 

[Fargo]

Pondering over some of these things this weekend, I should have also asked which stove is better if I don't do a good job of seasoning my wood. A lot of the trees that I will be burning will be dead trees that have died or come down in snow storms, etc. Often they will have branches and parts of the trunk that may be rotten and soft. So there would be a mix of some decent wood and some bad wood in there. And I'm sure the first few years of seasoning will be pretty bad until I figure out how to store the wood properly. So assuming I have a mix of some wet wood or I never really get reliable at cutting and seasoning, which stove is better for damp or rotten wood. I assume the non-cat is better since there is no cat to worry about plugging up. On the other hand, if I had a cat stove, I wonder if I get the fire hot enough to fire up the cat, if I might get a better burn and have less mess in the chimney. Am I correct in my thinking that a cat will burn better at lower temps? Does that make it a better burner for poor seasoned/inferior wood? ...I also have more questions on my mind about ease of operation and other differences. But I'll ask those later after I have totally exhausted all my questions about whether or not the wood makes a difference in choosing a stove.

 

[stoveliker]

Rotten wood that is dry is fine. It may burn really fast, and may be more controllable in a cat stove.
But wet wood won't go well in either.
Water cools down a fire. Cats hate being fed colder exhaust, and it may damage them.
Tube stoves might not have good secondaries.

Moreover, you'll be wasting a lot of BTUs from the wood to boil off the water (and water is notorious for needing a LOT of energy to boil.

The burn will be anemic, your chimney will get clogged, your home might burn down from a chimney fire.

Bottom line, if you don't have dry wood, don't burn.

 

[Fargo]

Wow, I didn't realize damp wood was that big of a deal. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

That pretty much says it.

The other side of it is most of us learn the hard way. We try to burn wet wood and it doesn’t work. No heat, plugged caps, Smokey fires, and fires that don’t want to stay lit brings us here in search of answers.

The answer is often dry wood. Firewood sellers don’t often sell actual dry wood. Pallets got me through my first winter. They’re often free and a sawzall breaks them down in short order. You can also find compressed sawdust logs that will burn. You can also carefully burn construction scraps if they are around. Most of us mix our wet wood in a little at a time since 1 wet piece in a batch of dry will balance out.

After that first year, dry wood becomes a priority. You learn which species of wood dry in a year and which take longer to dry.

You’ll figure it out. You’re half way there since you already found this board.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Box elder, a soft maple, will dry pretty quickly. Put it in a spot that gets a lot of sun and wind and raise it off the ground. Cover the top of the stack so those crazy thunderstorms you get don’t soak more than the ends. It’ll be ready in a year. Oh, and split it. It will take much longer to dry in rounds.

 

[Wisco Shepherd]

Box elder, a soft maple, will dry pretty quickly. Put it in a spot that gets a lot of sun and wind and raise it off the ground. Cover the top of the stack so those crazy thunderstorms you get don’t soak more than the ends. It’ll be ready in a year. Oh, and split it. It will take much longer to dry in rounds.

Agree here, I am burning some box elder that was split in early summer and top covered on a sunny hill. Fresh splits are reading 14% or so. Nice wood to mix in with the dense stuff or to burn down coals. Burns just fine on its own as well. I wouldn't pay for it but in your situation it fits the bill well no sense in handling the boxelder just to order in hardwoods.

 

[farmwithjunk]

Unrelated to your question but you mentioned having an electric furnace. Why not get a cold climate rated heat pump? That would give you a lot of bang for your buck on cutting heating bills. 25F and above on average your bill would be cut to about a 1/3. Some of the newer ones are full output down to single digits, still saving money over your current heating. Add a smart thermostat set to use heat strips at a set temp you would be good for any temp. I think both a heat pump and stove, if high efficiency get a 30% tax credit.

 

[NickW]

I burn plenty of box elder. It's slightly better than silver maple BTU wise which is higher than pine or aspen. It's a little less than black ash. Burns absolutely fine in my tube stove but wouldn't be a good overnight load. Possibly enough coals in the morning to load on, but they wouldn't be producing much heat. 3-4 hours to reload in cold weather, 6 hours to reload in milder weather.