Dutchwest Cast non-cat stoves..... Please shed some light...

[trailblaze]

ok, well since i found out many many things AFTER i bought my DW.... i just would like to her some people's thoughts on their DW's...

So far i am getting this sick feeling like i'm totally screwed this winter....


So far i have learned....

the everburn system doesn't work....

VC/ DW's warranties are not good...

cast iron stoves are not really good....


Does anyone have any good things to say on my recent purchase of a Med. size DW stove?? or are they completely worthless for heating my house?

 

[begreen]

I would have to disagree with all these presumptions, especially the last one. We do have folks burning using the VC everburn system and heating quite well with it. Read up on tradergordo's posts for instance. It is particular about draft, but works well when all is setup correctly. A lot of the issues we here seem to be due to the fragility of the refractory assembly. It should be treated carefully, no slamming logs against it.

The warranty issue is a sticky one, so far "officially" it seems like only stoves sold in 2008 will get warranty coverage. But that may change with public and internal pressure. Write VC with your concerns.

As far as cast iron goes, I have owned many cast iron stoves and loved them. They were tough, simple and elegant heaters. Aesthetically, casting allows stove manufacturers to create some absolutely beautiful designs. Cast iron makes a fine stove material as long as it comes from a quality foundry with superior castings. And VC foundries are the best in America.

 

[trailblaze]

i've been reading a "review" section i found on here...

i guess the DW stove is just a more "picky" stove to operate.... i'll look into tradergordo's posts!

with the cast.. i assumed (pre-purchase) that cast would give off more radiant heat... and would take to hotter temps... however, i've since read cast isn't as forgiving to heating it up too high as compared to steel...

i don't know how my draft will be..... i and 3 other stove installers feel it should be ok... it's high enough (not over the peak of the roof) but the way the weather comes there is no obstruction of wind/ no down drafts SHOULD be created where the chimney exits...

my worries are getting the DW lit, keeping the fire hot and burning all day, and keeping this mainly trouble free....

 

[begreen]

Tradergordo published a link to his website which includes a complete instructional video. Ultimately if the flue and fuel are good, the stove should burn as advertised. As far as which is better at high temps, cast iron manifolds are known to get very hot >1000 deg and survive regular abuse. I've had a cast stove up to 900 and while exciting, it was none the worse for wear afterward.

What is the length of your flue from stove to cap? Is it straight up interior or is it connected via elbows to an exterior flue?

 

[trailblaze]

from the flue to the cap is approx 18.5 feet. and it is a straight up 6" chimney... single wall off the stove double through ceiling and out roof...

 

[begreen]

That's sounds good. Try it first, it should work ok. At least you have some latitude for changes if it needs tweaking. If you notice it getting balky on the draft you have the option of going to double-wall connector pipe or adding another length to the exterior flue. But with well seasoned wood it may work just fine.

 

[tradergordo]

Hi there. First you might want to read this somewhat recent thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/18019/


My detailed review of the 2479 (large dutchwest non-cat everburn stove) is here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/4188/

Operation videos here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/14536/

Even more info can be found if you follow the link in my signature.

Without a doubt the everburn stoves have had negative feedback on the forums. Did you buy it in 2008? If so the warranty will be honored. ALSO it is worth noting that according to some they improved and redesigned the rear refractory shoe piece, changing the angles and bore diameter of the holes which supposedly makes the stove work better. This has yet to be confirmed by anyone on the forums, so maybe you can be the first. If you did NOT get the improved design, personally I would want to follow up with the dealer I bought from to see if they can replace that part.

It sounds like you have a good setup with a nice long straight interior chimney. So one big question is how is your wood? Its basically too late to start seasoning wood right now, so hopefully yours has already been split and out drying all Summer. It is going to take some time to get used to this stove, but you can learn from others that own one and you will get better results with time. I generally tell people the everburn stoves are not worth the hassle, and if you can exchange it before you burn in it, I'd consider getting a stove with better customer satisfaction. But if you are determined to stick with this stove or you don't have much choice, I do think its possible to get good results from it. I have been heating 24/7 with it for the last two heating seasons.

As for cast iron vs. steel - this is a long running debate and something that has been discussed many times on these forums. When all is said and done I think its a toss up, they both have strengths and weaknesses. Cast iron stoves tend to have nice curves and grooves all over the place, this design not only makes them better looking stoves, but it helps them radiate heat better than a typical steel stove. The vermont castings cast iron stoves are also now completely "bolt together" (no cement) which makes it possible to somewhat easily rebuild them and/or replace a single part without scraping the whole stove. A steel stove might be more durable as a mostly single welded together unit (they can warp or crack though just like a cast iron stove). As was mentioned, the quality of the casting (foundry it came from) plays a major role. The VC foundry is the best, so if cast iron stoves have a bad reputation it could be due to sub-standard product coming mostly from Asia. But honestly I am not aware of cast iron really having a bad reputation.

ok, well since i found out many many things AFTER i bought my DW.... i just would like to her some people's thoughts on their DW's...

So far i am getting this sick feeling like i'm totally screwed this winter....


So far i have learned....

the everburn system doesn't work....

VC/ DW's warranties are not good...

cast iron stoves are not really good....


Does anyone have any good things to say on my recent purchase of a Med. size DW stove?? or are they completely worthless for heating my house?

 

[Hanko]

Man Im really getting tired of these bad DW post. OK here goes again. There are three DW's in our family. Mine, my brothers, my sons. we all like em, they all work well (as good as my f500). They have there quirks, but every stove does to some point. A good staight chimney with good dry wood, dont engage the everburn system untill your up to temp. My sons is 5 years old, no probems.

 

[trailblaze]

Hi there. First you might want to read this somewhat recent thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/18019/


My detailed review of the 2479 (large dutchwest non-cat everburn stove) is here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/4188/

Operation videos here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/14536/

Even more info can be found if you follow the link in my signature.

Without a doubt the everburn stoves have had negative feedback on the forums. Did you buy it in 2008? If so the warranty will be honored. ALSO it is worth noting that according to some they improved and redesigned the rear refractory shoe piece, changing the angles and bore diameter of the holes which supposedly makes the stove work better. This has yet to be confirmed by anyone on the forums, so maybe you can be the first. If you did NOT get the improved design, personally I would want to follow up with the dealer I bought from to see if they can replace that part.

It sounds like you have a good setup with a nice long straight interior chimney. So one big question is how is your wood? Its basically too late to start seasoning wood right now, so hopefully yours has already been split and out drying all Summer. It is going to take some time to get used to this stove, but you can learn from others that own one and you will get better results with time. I generally tell people the everburn stoves are not worth the hassle, and if you can exchange it before you burn in it, I'd consider getting a stove with better customer satisfaction. But if you are determined to stick with this stove or you don't have much choice, I do think its possible to get good results from it. I have been heating 24/7 with it for the last two heating seasons.

As for cast iron vs. steel - this is a long running debate and something that has been discussed many times on these forums. When all is said and done I think its a toss up, they both have strengths and weaknesses. Cast iron stoves tend to have nice curves and grooves all over the place, this design not only makes them better looking stoves, but it helps them radiate heat better than a typical steel stove. The vermont castings cast iron stoves are also now completely "bolt together" (no cement) which makes it possible to somewhat easily rebuild them and/or replace a single part without scraping the whole stove. A steel stove might be more durable as a mostly single welded together unit (they can warp or crack though just like a cast iron stove). As was mentioned, the quality of the casting (foundry it came from) plays a major role. The VC foundry is the best, so if cast iron stoves have a bad reputation it could be due to sub-standard product coming mostly from Asia. But honestly I am not aware of cast iron really having a bad reputation.

well i really don't think i can return it...but i'll check... i've also built everything else around this stoves space/r-value requirements, so i'll try to run with it...

my wood is mixed, i have about a 2/3 cord of mixed hard woods seasoned 1 yr... i've got 2 cords of cherry/oak coming this week thats been cut and split and seasoned for 2-3 yrs.... and i've got about a cord of pure cherry split last month

i'll use the dry stuff!

i purchased this stove last month, it was after the VC company was bought out... i don't know what i've got for the rear refractory shoe piece? i can take some pics and post them... i'll ask the dealer about this too...

what should i be looking for to determine if i got a new peice?

thanks for the quick pm/ reply!

 

[trailblaze]

Man Im really getting tired of these bad DW post. OK here goes again. There are three DW's in our family. Mine, my brothers, my sons. we all like em, they all work well (as good as my f500). They have there quirks, but every stove does to some point. A good staight chimney with good dry wood, dont engage the everburn system untill your up to temp. My sons is 5 years old, no probems.

well this should show you i don't know my stove all to well...

how do you engage the everburn system?? i noticed there is a "door" on the inside top that can be opened by the top-side lever... if you leave this open i suspect the everburn won't come on??

what happens if you always leave this door open?

 

[begreen]

Yes, the bypass damper is needed to engage the secondary combustion system (everburn). Manual pages 18-19 cover stove operation. They have diagrams and labels that are a lot easier to follow than a quick posting here. Read up on them, look at TGs videos and I think you will have a good idea about how it runs.

 

[trailblaze]

haha... i have not got past the install part of the manual... boy i feel stupid now


maybe i should read before i ask this...but

if you don't engage the everburn... does the stove burn better and have better draft?? i would assume you go through more wood

 

[tradergordo]

what should i be looking for to determine if i got a new peice?

That's a good question, since no one posting on the forums has mentioned that they have actually seen this, who knows if its even hit the showroom floors yet? The word on the improved design came from a guy who used to post here all the time, named "elkimmeg". What he said on August 1st was (paraphrased and edited a bit to make it more readable):

"About 2 months ago I sat in on the Northeast distributor meeting with many dealers & retailers present. Larry Robitele (Current Vermont Castings CEO) giving the presentation. He fielded all questions. I asked if improvements were being made to make the everburn technology more user friendly and less draft demanding. He asked who I was and I told him I represent an online Hearth website. There was a pause, he spoke to someone, then addressed the question telling us that they researched the angles of the bores in the shoe. Some changes were made that improve the air flow."

From another post: "Minor refinements to the everburn shoe have been made -- larger hole borings and better cross fire design, to make them more user forgiving."

I'd welcome a close up picture, if you can measure the bore diameter of the holes in the shoe (lower back of firebox) that might also be useful...

 

[begreen]

If you don't engage the bypass you will have essentially an old fashioned smoke dragon. Not very efficient. Once the stove is hot, the everburn system is where you get the long clean burns.

 

[tradergordo]

haha... i have not got past the install part of the manual... boy i feel stupid now


maybe i should read before i ask this...but

if you don't engage the everburn... does the stove burn better and have better draft?? i would assume you go through more wood

It will burn very hot, and can burn very clean, with the bypass open, but will go through wood like crazy and a lot of heat will go up the chimney. You basically only want to burn that way when you are establishing the coal bed, or when you can't get the everburn to work which could be for any number of reasons (bad wood or bad draft). Bad draft can be caused by low atmospheric pressure, outside temps above 35F, bad chimney setup, etc).

 

[trailblaze]

thanks... i'm going to read some of your links before i post anymore... i've answered some of my questions from trying to read through them while i'm here at work...

 

[FireWalker]

I burned the DW xtra large cat stove for 12 seasons, producing about 75% of my 1500 sf home heating needs. I bought the stove new. I assume the everburn system operates similar to my stoves cat system. Yes, there is a bypass damper that engages the cat chamber, when running in non-cat operation this is the only time you can over fire the stove and will burn tons of wood and produce lots of smoke.
In a nut shell, the stove works great if you get a good load of dry wood burning in bypass mode with the main air damper fully open for say 1/2 hour. This is sometimes a little scary as things really start to ping, pop and generally get hot fast. This is also the time when if left unattended things can get to hot! Now that things are good and hot and your probe thermometer is happy, it's time to shut the back damper. This is when things can get interesting. Depending on draft (outdoor temprature and barrometric pressure) the fire inside your box is immediately air starved and the flames will be rolling around in there looking really pissed off. If the flames go out open the bypass damper back up ASAP, if you don't you will be getting a back-puff out the main air intake ports as the gasses re-ignite. Otherwise things sould take a few minutes to calm down at which point you can think about dampering down the fire some. See, so far it's simple right?
This stove works best at high heat settings (50 to 100% open at main damper) during cat burns. As you attemp to damper fire down (below 50% open at main damper) to get longer burns, this is when this stove suffers. At the point the cat goes out, its only a matter of time until you get a puff which really sucks if you are not home because it will keep puffing and puffing. I'm not sure if the everburn system adressed these problems effectively but my advise would be to burn medium to hot fires and try to avoid the temptation of achieving a 8 hour burn at low burn rates. These stoves hav a lot of iron and will hold heat for a long time.

 

[FireWalker]

I just re-read my post and it sounded kind of scary. Listen, you have a good stove, it just kind of quirky. Mine worked O.K. but I would not recommend one, just too fussy to operate. I can not stress enough the need to avoid low fire extended burns with everburn/cat engaged as this is the main problem with the stove. If you need a very low fire either don't engege the everburn and let her smoke on near fully closed main air setting or light a few splits, burn them hot and let her go out. I struggled for years with this as I always wanted to get maximum burn times which in this case is like paddling up stream.

 

[sullystull]

Trailblaze...welcome to the forum. I too purchased the same stove. Many folks on the forum haven't had any luck with the everburn system but like tradergordo told me...if you don't mind taking the time to figure the stove out, then it should be fine. I have had a few fires in my stove--but none that warranted engaging the everburn system. Therefore, I guess I have no good advice for you. However, please know that there's a fella just south of you who will be experiencing the same things this winter. I'm sure we'll be fine. Good things happen to good people

PS--definitely read through trader's information--both his posts and the links on his website!

 

[trailblaze]

well my camera is dead...i'll take pics later.... but i measured all the little holes on the back peice inside the fire box and they all seem to be about 1/4 in in diameter...

anyone with this stove know their size of holes?

 

[trailblaze]

I just re-read my post and it sounded kind of scary. Listen, you have a good stove, it just kind of quirky. Mine worked O.K. but I would not recommend one, just too fussy to operate. I can not stress enough the need to avoid low fire extended burns with everburn/cat engaged as this is the main problem with the stove. If you need a very low fire either don't engege the everburn and let her smoke on near fully closed main air setting or light a few splits, burn them hot and let her go out. I struggled for years with this as I always wanted to get maximum burn times which in this case is like paddling up stream.

it wasn't very scary... but i still have a sick feeling about the upcoming winter... i too was hoping to fill the stove up before i left for work and be able to come home to a bed of hot ashes 8hrs later...and with cast i was hoping it would still put off a little heat even after the main fire dies out

i am more scared now to do so, my pup is left home alone all day and if she's here i don't want to burn the house down ...who cares about the house, i can replace that... but if she's inside with it..

what do other stoves (non cat) have in them to resemble the "everburn" design? is it about the same thing just better

 

[Hanko]

?

 

[trailblaze]

heres my everburner... with 1/4 inch holes

 

[sullystull]

Fairly similar design to mine. The holes appear to be the same size. I believe my stove is a 2006--I'll check to make sure.

 

[jeff6443]

mine look bigger and ported like inside maybe its me 1 st year hopeing for the best