1949, one brick thick, wobbly chimney

[jatoxico]

What are the benefits of an insert over freestanding? Smaller footprint in the room, as jatoxico said. Can I still toss a Dutch Oven on top of an insert if the power goes out?

Inserts that extend into the room 8" or more often can be used as a cooktop in a pinch. How realistic that is I could not say since mine is flush but several manufacturers do mention this is their literature. Maybe someone who's done it can chime in.

The benefit probably has to more to do with looks and hearth requirements. You mentioned you had burn marks from the old stove? Some stoves require an insulated hearth others just ember protection but either way free standers need protection further into the room.

The free standing stoves heat better (IMO) and will have more cook top surface if that's a priority. The inserts work well, very well in some cases but benefit from a fan. So, they don't take up much floor space compared to a free standing stove and look more like a traditional fireplace.

 

[Mountain Lady]

It sounds like. Freestanding is for us then. I doubt the previous owners had anything down under their stove. We were looking at hearth pads until we learned we could DIY one. We are looking at tearing up the row of tile down now and building a pad 4' deep x 5'4" wide.

 

[billb3]

If the chimney can be moved away from the house it likely needs mortar work at the pivot point where it moving and the anchors ( even in 1949 they would have used something) have rusted away so it needs a strap (or two) so it can no longer move. A couple of courses at the top is an easy thing to fix. A top would be made to support the liner and to keep water out of the chimney.

I'd consider removing all that old fireplace and chimney and building a proper spec bumpout for a free standing stove. A bit of an investment though. Possible Payback in potential better insulation.

 

[bholler]

I agree with billb other than tearing that down and building new. It really is not uncommon at all for a chimney to be able to move quite a bit. I would recommend adding anchors in the attic and under the flashing at the roof relay the top few courses then make a stainless top plate to support the liner and keep out the weather. It would cost allot to tear down and rebuild and i doubt you would ever regain that investment over just fixing what you have now

 

[Oldman47]

I am building my own home right now and have already installed the chimney for my new stove so I have recently been through this. From the ceiling up you will need chimney, not stove pipe. It costs around $35 to $40 per foot and will need to extend at least 3 feet beyond the roof. Based on your picture it looks like you have a 4/12 or 5/12 roof. To get the minimum of 2 feet above anything within 10 feet you will then need at least another 2 feet vertical unless you get lucky with your location and are close to the roof peak. For me it was the double wall DVL stove pipe for over $150 for the 3 1/2 to 5 foot adjustable section I needed. Next up were a couple of DVL 45º elbows to step sideways and miss one of my trusses. (In a 1949 build you will have ceiling joists to miss instead.) If you have the roof rafters lined up with the ceiling joists, typical construction, you should be able to go straight up once you have missed a ceiling joist. The support for the chimney is from the bottom which means right at the ceiling. The kit to mount that, along with bare bones minimum parts like the pipe cap, flashing, storm collar and the insulation barrier can be purchased as a kit for about $300 to $350. Next thing to think about is floor protection. Depending on which stove you get you will need at least ember protection, which I have or in some cases an insulated fire proof hearth which would be harder. I used some nice tile that set me back well over $100 plus the price of the cement board that went under it at $12 per 3x5 sheet. The size of that floor protection is determined by which stove you get. When I sit down and add it up I had around $150 for the floor, $180 for the DVL, $330 for the basic chimney mounting stuff and 9 feet of chimney at let's say $360. Mine is a straight DIY job so no labor charge. Installing the chimney takes lots of work in the attic getting things built to hold the weight at the ceiling mount then a gaping hole in the roof to get the minimum distance to combustibles and then sealing up that hole using the flashing, storm collar and pipe cap along with some silicone. Silicone caulk is only a few bucks so not much of a consideration in terms of cost. What I did not need yet is the $80 roof support for a chimney more than 5 feet above the roof line. I need to see how it drafts before I decide to extend my chimney and then would need that.
Not counting the stove itself and figuring my labor is free I am over $1300. If you hired me to do it I would not tackle the attic part of the install for much under $500 labor and maybe quite a bit more depending on how easy it was to access. If your existing chimney can be made sound reasonably easily, I would not move to a new location. Just my opinion.

 

[Mountain Lady]

I am going to hope for the best on Tuesday. Read: easiest, most affordable option to make our chimney safe

I'm off to continue looking at smaller stoves. Night ya'll. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.

 

[Mountain Lady]

Oldman47 - You just convinced me to work with what we've been dealt with on the chimney. Holy wow on everything involved with your install! There is no way we could or would DIY that and our attic is difficult to climb up into so I cringe to think what labor slone would cost us. Your hearth pad sounds like what we are leaning towards.

 

[Oldman47]

Mine was not so bad because I am not living there yet and I installed the whole thing off a ladder on the main floor. It is not a technically difficult install and since I did it before the ceiling went in I had easy peasy access to the attic space. All you really need to keep in mind is 2 inches to combustibles from chimney and 6 inches for double wall. Every thing else is dealing with an individual item like the ceiling mount, the flashing and so forth. Chimney pieces screw together much like putting a lid on a jar so no big deal. Once it is in place you put a band around it to keep it from coming unscrewed. No big deal really.
Be sure to check the requirements of the stove you choose. Some require considerable insulation under the hearth area. The 30-NC is a popular choice that requires a more expensive hearth for protection.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

A wobbly chimney, you sure do paint a funny picture.... Glad you posted pics, like bholler said, it looks good except for the top, I would have a professional company install a new liner, take care of the top bricks and cap it off and you should be good to go, no more big wobbly guy shaking left and right like you see in front of a store every now and then.....

 

[Simonkenton]

"jatoxico - When my husband is standing on the roof he can push the top of the chimney a couple inches from the house. We do not use the fireplace and chimney."

Time to say bye bye to that chimney. A chimney that is so wobbly has inherent structural problems and is unusable.
A local company is trying to sell you a liner for that chimney? Time to say bye bye to that company.

 

[bholler]

Time to say bye bye to that chimney. A chimney that is so wobbly has inherent structural problems and is unusable.
A local company is trying to sell you a liner for that chimney? Time to say bye bye to that company.

I dissagree many chimneys move allot they typically just need repaired not replaced

 

[Mountain Lady]

Seeing the disagreement is giving me hope. Hope that our chimney is within the normal limits of wobbliness.

The company we paid to inspect our chimney had good online reviews but a few red flags in person.

We trust the folks at the stove store and would prefer to do business with them. They are forthcoming with information and honest about different chimney options and associated costs. I look forward to their observations on Tuesday.

 

[Plow Boy]

Even brick can flex given the distance of the chimney. Just anchor, liner and cap. Definitely need to liner IMO. Insulated liner is worth the peace of mind you will get. This is not 1949 anymore we have products to keep us and our family safe.

 

[bholler]

Hope that our chimney is within the normal limits of wobbliness.

I am not there to see it is person but i inspect many chimneys and i see allot that move quite a bit it usually does not mean it cant be fixed or even that it needs fixed. The pics of yours don't look very bad at all i would bet it could be saved. on that note I always find it amusing that a chimney is an approved osha tie off point. I know many i have seen would just and up coming down and chasing you to the ground

 

[Mountain Lady]

I always find it amusing that a chimney is an approved osha tie off point. I know many i have seen would just and up coming down and chasing you to the ground

You mean someone on the roof working can tie tie themselves to a chimney, potentially like mine? Nooooo thank you!

 

[begreen]

I stopped using our fireplace chimney as a tie-off point after an earthquake rotated the top 45 degrees.

 

[bholler]

ou mean someone on the roof working can tie tie themselves to a chimney, potentially like mine? Nooooo thank you!

Yeah that is what osha says at least not a good idea in my book

 

[Mountain Lady]

Due to ice the look-see has been postponed.

A Jotul F45 Greenville would fit the house going by square footage. I don't like that it's only a cigar burn. I don't know if it is because of fire watching being less pretty or because I dislike not having the option of NS or EW.

A Jotul F55 would be overkill going by square footage but we would be able to sleep all night without re-loading and I could have longer logs, have less wory about buying logs that are too long.

Can someone tell Jotul to make a steel and cast iron stove in between the F45 and F55 that allows NS and EW loading? And please pass me some cheese with my whine!

 

[begreen]

That's why I suggested the Alderlea T5. 2 cu ft, square firebox.

 

[Mountain Lady]

I was just coming back to edit my post to mention that. The stove store doesn't carry Pacific Energy. I phoned a shop that does but they have nothing in stock and seem to run $99 to $101 more on the stoves I got prices on.

 

[tcassavaugh]

i like the little jotul i have, its an f3cb and one of the things i like about it is the ash pan. makes it real easy to clean. i had an early model f602 that heated a house we rented. it worked hard and pulled us out of a power outage of 3 days after an ice storm. i have a summit downstairs in the basement to use when it gets cold like it is now. of the two, i like the jotul. i would go bigger rather than get one that is adequate. i like the idea of not having to get up and feed the stove too.
love the chimney. it looks almost brand new inside. repair and lining sounds like the way to go to me too although if you're uncomfortable with that you can always put up a new double lined one and enclose it during the better weather. jmho

 

[Mountain Lady]

How often do you have to load your F3CB, tcassavaugh?

We keep coming back to the Jotuls. Now I think I can live with the cigar burn of an F45 in order to get the other features I like, such as a warm house and not burning heating fuel.

 

[begreen]

Many of us that have larger stoves still burn N/S (cigar burn) even though we can load E/W. It provides a hot fire quicker and eliminates logs rolling against the glass.

 

[Mountain Lady]

So NS is a better burn due to airflow and it is a built-in safety feature, to boot. Brilliant! Thanks begreen!

 

[BobUrban]

So NS is a better burn due to airflow and it is a built-in safety feature, to boot. Brilliant! Thanks begreen!

"Better" is just an opinion - but one I share with many here for the above reasons mentioned. BEST I think is having the option to go NS or EW. Sometimes EW is nice for a longer, albeit typically lower heat fire - all else being equal. You can manipulate this a bit by load layout in a NS by either blocking the dog house with a split or round or, for quicker heat, leaving a tunnel front to back from the DH.