12.2kw solar barn

[maple1]

My mind is still boggled over power companies getting the 'over production' for free.

 

[JP11]

My mind is still boggled over power companies getting the 'over production' for free.

No, they don't.. not really. You get one full year to use anything you produce. So even if you over produced, it would take you a long time to have any credits 'expire' you can always put a relatives bill in your name.. and send that second account the overage.

You always use up your oldest credits first. Unless you grossly oversized your system, it should never be an issue. Mine was sized around 95% of total bill.. then I added 6 more panels. I need one more central air unit, and the wife's next car will be a plug in hybrid.

JP

 

[maple1]

Well, yes - I guess.

But it would seem, to me anyway, that there would be much more of an incentive to get people doing this, or get people who are doing it to put more panels in, if there was a plan for the power companies to buy excess production - even if it were at a rate discounted enough to allow them a small profit for re-selling it. And the more that do this, the better - I think that is not debateable. As I'm understanding, the only ones it is really worthwhile for, are ones with consumption on the high side - as the most you could hope for is to make your bill go to zero over the course of a year. I keep coming up with something like a 25 year payback for us (also realizing that rates will go nowhere but up in the future).

Now, if you could shift some other stuff that you are using other types of energy for, to electric, and generate for that too - that would shift the picture. Like a plug-in car, yes. I would dearly love to have one of those - if things progress enough that a reliable daily range of 200km is reached, in an affordable vehicle, and more quick charging stations get in place around here, I could see us in one of those. Our electric bill is maybe on the low side - our gasoline spending, maybe not so much. Even a plug-in hybrid is something I find myself thinking more about these days. Our Civic daily driver is 8 years old now & has almost 400,000 kms on it - it's pretty easy on gas but those kms would be even cheaper on electric. Then there's the SUV that burns twice as much gas per km - but it doesn't get driven near as much. When you live in the middle of nowhere, it's the price you have to pay if you want to be somewhere, I guess.

 

[JP11]

I guess the major difference in our payback timelines is the fact that I'll get 30% tax credit from the federal govt. I can stomach a decade to get into the 'black'

started making power about 630am. it's cloudy, so it's not making much.. but it's making 2424W at the moment. 847am

 

[JP11]

Cloudy day.. it's running just over 1/3 rated power. Still an hour till noon.

Supposed to have some sunny days this weekend.

 

[peakbagger]

Darn isnt it addictive when the meters run backwards? Enjoy it while it lasts, at some point the system becomes an appliance. Nothing wrong with that as it means the technology has matured.

I do adjust my tilt angles on two of my arrays 4 times a year and If I am walking by my the meter I might take a look at it and on occasion I read the displays on the inverters but that is about it.

 

[JP11]

I haven't even been home to SEE it work.

I've asked my wife to read the 'out' meter 3 times in 24 hours.

I can at least log on and see production in real time. Once i get some data (a month in) I'll start projecting break even.

I guess I can do the fun part now.. Go to my online banking and stop the 'auto pay'

 

[CaptSpiff]

Minnesota net metering is somewhat different from yours in that if credits at the average retail rate ($0.108 currently with my utility) exceed usage, the utility pays us back the excess $ on request.

That's a smoke'in great deal.
Last I researched, LIPA (Long Island NY) gives you credit against usage on a running year, then cashes you out at about 30 cents on the dollar if you have credits remaining each year. Sounds low until I looked at my rate of $0.22/hwr; about 50% is T&D charges, 40% is Energy, and 10% taxes & fees. Those taxes are low because there are NYS taxes hidden in the T&D and Energy portions. The conservation manager said it simply as "Why should we pay you more than we can buy it for ourselves?"
And we can't trade or transfer the credits either. They are locked to the billing address & account. That policy in Maine sounds nice.
The other thing we "sign over" to them as part of the LIPA rebate is the "energy credits" that are resold at statewide auction. I read on Hearth that a poster in NJ, PA or MA was getting several hundred $ a year for those (not sure their official name).

 

[JP11]

That's the difference as I see it too. They don't BUY my energy. They take it, and let me have it back later. In essence, THEY are my battery.

If they were buying my power.. they would only pay the 'power' price, and not give me the money for 'delivery' that is more I think that the power itself costs.

JP

 

[Where2]

The other thing we "sign over" to them as part of the LIPA rebate is the "energy credits" that are resold at statewide auction. I read on Hearth that a poster in NJ, PA or MA was getting several hundred $ a year for those (not sure their official name).

The proper term for those "credits" is SREC's (Solar Renewable Energy Credits or Solar Renewable Energy Certificates). Neither Florida nor Maine has a market for them, presently. My 4.4kW system would have generated 6 of them last year (1 SREC = 1MWh of renewable energy). They are worth ~$160 each in NJ at the moment. (if you search Google, there's a few sites that trade them like securities). I'll gladly accept a value of $0 per SREC in Florida, rather than buying energy at rates in MA, NJ or any of the states where SREC's appear to be marketable.

I believe another catch in the SREC system is that when you sell them, they may be considered taxable income to the seller. I don't need any more complications around April 15th. My PV system simply benefits the residents below it who invested in the new technology. Collecting 3kW at the moment, and using 0.42kW.

 

[peakbagger]

Mass SRECs sell for $250 a MW (roughly) NH pays $50. I have my system enrolled and if lucky may get a check for $150 a year.

 

[sloeffle]

Well, yes - I guess.
Our Civic daily driver is 8 years old now & has almost 400,000 kms on it - it's pretty easy on gas but those kms would be even cheaper on electric. Then there's the SUV that burns twice as much gas per km - but it doesn't get driven near as much. When you live in the middle of nowhere, it's the price you have to pay if you want to be somewhere, I guess.

Man, I thought I drove a lot. I have 111k on 7 year old Honda CR-V.

Scott

 

[JP11]

Obviously.. some clouds and sun. Still made over 45kw. PVwatts says I should be making about 50 a day in Aug. Still waiting for my first sunny day.

JP

 

[CombatChris]

Obviously.. some clouds and sun. Still made over 45kw. PVwatts says I should be making about 50 a day in Aug. Still waiting for my first sunny day.

JPView attachment 137104

Daaang and that's all the way up in ME. You're living the dream, man. I want a setup so badly down here in NC.... but you know, baby steps.

Get the land. The house. The barn. THEN the solar!

 

[JP11]

I had the land 4 years before I could build. Had the house 6 years before I got the barn.

made almost 70kw yesterday.

 

[Where2]

Daaang and that's all the way up in ME. You're living the dream, man. I want a setup so badly down here in NC.... but you know, baby steps. Get the land. The house. The barn. THEN the solar!

Had a portion of that debate with one of my co-workers today. He bought his wife a new vehicle over the weekend and keeps dreaming of having an EV some day. I told him an EV is an even better deal when PV refuels it. I reminded him that PV incentives expire in 2016.

I've been doing my research on installing my next little <5kW PV system in a place 1.8° latitude further north than JP11's house. Looks like it will work like a charm when it's not covered in snow...

 

[JP11]

Snow is the unknown. They claim it will shed snow about the same as what the metal did.

Snow never hung around long on that dark brown roof. Day or two after a storm at most. We'll see.

JP

 

[JP11]

Had a 'perfect' no cloud day yesterday. Just passed 500kwh in my first 10 days.

And had a buddy stop by with his drone this morning. couple pics to share.

 

[jebatty]

I vicariously enjoy your satisfaction with solar electric power. Remains for me a little magical to see the power without doing any work to obtain it, just flowing from the sun.

Your picture evidences some shading potential in late fall and winter, roughly 6 weeks or so on each side of December 20. Sun azimuth is down to 19 degrees at my location (47N), and trees quite distant provide shading on my system. My calculation is about a 4% maximum shading reduction from estimated annual production.

 

[JP11]

I've got a couple trees to knock down. Gotta wait till I move the palleted up firewood, so I've got a good place to drop them. The estimator got on the roof with this camera. He took a picture of the southern sky. It plotted on the picture the path of the sun each month. The winter months it was pretty low, but he did say the few trees in the way would be leaf free by then.

We'll see

JP

 

[Where2]

I vicariously enjoy your satisfaction with solar electric power. Remains for me a little magical to see the power without doing any work to obtain it, just flowing from the sun.

Exactly. As others have said, in due time it simply becomes an appliance that works whether you are home or not. After a year, I've finally stopped checking mine daily to see how it's doing. It gets up and goes to work before I do, and although it only makes a dollar or two per day it does it without any fuss from me. I go about my business and it just works.

As I was driving during the week and out paddling the kayak today, I found myself looking at different houses and barns and considering how well or poorly situated they would be for solar arrays.

 

[JP11]

Not a great day today. Lots of shade. Still got 39.9kwh. That's enough for my usage. I've got a few hundred in the bank already (20 days in) and I'm just 70kw away from my first megawatt. Not bad, will be my 17th day making power. High water mark was 74kwh in a day.

JP

 

[JP11]

I'm 25 days in producing power. Happen to be stuck in a hotel, so I pulled some data off the SMA website and crunched a few numbers. Best day ever, still the 74kwh. Had a real rainy day a few back.. only 9!

According to PV watts, I should have made 50 a day last month and 48 this month. I've made power 15 days this month, and 10 last month. Average for that time is 54kwh per day.

so.. i'm 10% above PV watts.. they say the panels degrade, so I think you can use the defaults on the website to get a pretty good idea.

JP

 

[woodgeek]

Glad its working out, and that you are above trend, but your +10 over 2 mos is not significant. IIRC PV arrays can show ±10% variation year to year because of weather fluctuations....kinda like heating and cooling loads. We'll ask you again in 10 years.

 

[JP11]

I agree it's not statitstically relevant... but it's the only data I have at this moment. My point was just to say that ASSUMING a bit of degradation, the PV watts website seems to be pretty accurate for production so far.

My first meter read is in another week. Looking forward to that bill for once! I think I was already 'ahead' of my bill by 50 bucks on my budget plan. I cancelled that, so I should be able to go with zero payment for a few months before winter hits. We'll see how I keep up. Last I looked, my production was 400 above my usage.

JP