Pellet shortage ?!?!??!! Big Box Stores -- Maine

[F4jock]

Wish I could like a post multiple times.



Man, I am jealous. My "expensive" oil company is charging $2.549 and the lowest possible is $2.249 in this area. I'm still hating on oil. Heating with $2.999 oil now since my daughter is visiting, which is OK as I'd like to be able to get at least a minimum delivery (and try one of these low-cost sources as I've been with my current rip-off company for 26 years and I'm sick and tired of them) this year as I don't trust prices not to rise by next heating season.

So define "rip-off company" and substantiate your oil company as being one. I suggest you Google "Crude Oil Prices." Then look at the Bloomberg site. There you can see the "wholesale" selling prices of crude, refinery gasoline and heating oil. Perhaps you'll see something you didn't know. Just because you think a price is too high doesn't necessarily mean it's a "rip-off."

 

[Peterfield]

I am glad the moderators have let this thread stay alive. Pellet interest is obviously drawing folks together with divergent points of view and this is good and one of many reasons I love this forum. When oil runs out, certainly not in our life time, something will replace it. Case in point, in World War II, the Germans had to develop synthetic oil in 1944 because they ran out of the real thing. It's just a commodity, nothing more. If there was enough money in it right now, we'd be driving hydrogen cars and have solar panels on all our houses. Nobody has figured out yet who owns the sun (Republicans) or how to tax it (Democrats). The Saudi thing is much more complex than driving out their competitors or they would have done this long time ago. I'd say it more adversely effects the Russian economy and there are underlying reasons for why that is a goal, trust me. The pipeline will put some folks to work just like the first stimulus program under the present administration. Very few permanent jobs with either project. I like burning pellets because it's much easier than burning cordwood and it is renewable and heats my house more efficiently and I believe most on this forum fall into this category.

 

[F4jock]

I am glad the moderators have let this thread stay alive. Pellet interest is obviously drawing folks together with divergent points of view and this is good and one of many reasons I love this forum. When oil runs out, certainly not in our life time, something will replace it. Case in point, in World War II, the Germans had to develop synthetic oil in 1944 because ran out of the real thing. It's just a commodity, nothing more. If there was enough money in it right now, we'd be driving hydrogen cars and have solar panels on all our houses. Nobody has figured out yet who owns the sun (Republicans) or how to tax it (Democrats). The Saudi thing is much more complex than driving out their competitors or they would have done this long time ago. I'd say it more adversely effects the Russian economy and there are underlying reasons for why that is a goal, trust me. The pipeline will put some folks to work just like the first stimulus program under the present administration. Very few permanent jobs with either project. I like burning pellets because it's much easier than burning cordwood and it is renewable and heats my house more efficiently and I believe most on this forum fall into this category.

Iranian economy as well . Saudis are no fools.

Some people object to Keystone as jobs are not "Permanent." DUH! NO construction jobs are permanent and 40K construction jobs for four or five years is a pretty good chunk! Helps out the union folks at a time when housing and major construction starts are down.

As for pellets providing efficient heat. . . . Well . . . . .

As for the mods "allowing" this thread (Insert genuflection here.) it's an interesting discussion on energy. Why not?

 

[Tonyray]

well, for my 2cents, screw the Politics.. Like Religion.. never ending/no one wins.
Bought my stove new last winter and plan to keep using it.
It keeps my house a constant temp 70's [half throttle].
to do that with Oil, I would consume it just as fast as when the price was higher.. Furnace doesn't care what the price is...
so savings wouldn't amount to much if any.
Never goin back to keeping the thermostat at 67-68 just to conserve oil..
[unless it hits 1.00 gallon which it won't.

 

[woodmakesheat]

ExxonMobil paid an effective tax Federal tax rate of 40% last year while two years or so ago GE, the darling of my President because the CEO is a best buddy, paid nothing. Amazing how much of that horrible oil money comes back to us.

That's a bit deceptive. Right-wing sources make this claim, but more neutral sources include more information. Exxon's high tax rate is dominated by foreign, state and local taxes, their federal rate averages less than 20% over the past 5 years. GE didn't pay taxes because they didn't post a profit - and granted there are tricks to this and I don't feel sorry for them.

Exxon's Income Statement Summary:

 

[chken]

where in maine did you get oil for that price??? i got some friday at 2.19/ cash energy...they are probably the cheapest around here..

Augusta Fuel, they always charge more than the other fuel companies, so I was shocked they were the cheapest in the area.

 

[F4jock]

well, for my 2cents, screw the Politics.. Like Religon.. never ending/no one wins.
Bought my stove new last winter and plan to keep using it.
It keeps my house a constant temp 70's [half throttle].
to do that with Oil, I would consume it just as fast as when the price was higher.. Furnace doesn't care what the price is...
so savings wouldn't amount to much if any.
Never goin back to keeping the thermostat at 67-68 just to conserve oil..
[unless it hits 1.00 gallon which it won't.

Heh. We always keep the thermostat at 69-70 'cause that's where we like it. Cost is not a factor. Reason I like oil is the convenience, the even heating hot water baseboard provides and lack of blower noise. The plusses of pellet heat are mostly ambiance. It's nice to snuggle with my gorgeous wife with a glass of wine and watch the snow fall and see the deer and coons and squirrels and birds eating the food we put out for them while the dog lies at our feet and the cats curl up on or near the stove. Can't buy that at any price.

 

[F4jock]

That's a bit deceptive. Right-wing sources make this claim, but more neutral sources include more information. Exxon's high tax rate is dominated by foreign, state and local taxes, their federal rate averages less than 20% over the past 5 years. GE didn't pay taxes because they didn't post a profit - and granted there are tricks to this and I don't feel sorry for them.
Exxon's Income Statement Summary:

Ge had a billion dollar bottom line. Kept it offshore and state and local count toward the give backs as much as federal. One way or another they paid it at approximately 30.7%. And your tax rate was?

 

[Pellet-King]

Another case how a thread get's so off topic with talk of politic's and derailed it ain't funny, it all started with a Pellet shortage in Maine

 

[woodmakesheat]

So define "rip-off company" and substantiate your oil company as being one. I suggest you Google "Crude Oil Prices." Then look at the Bloomberg site. There you can see the "wholesale" selling prices of crude, refinery gasoline and heating oil. Perhaps you'll see something you didn't know. Just because you think a price is too high doesn't necessarily mean it's a "rip-off."

Dude, man, when I'm being charged $2.549 by my "rip-off" company and another person is paying $2.079 by their rip-off company, then you can be sure that I am being ripped off. You missed the context of my post - likely due to being riled up on your political high-horse. Chill-out, brah.

 

[F4jock]

Another case how a thread get's so off topic with talk of politic's and derailed it ain't funny, it all started with a Pellet shortage in Maine

Awwwwwwww.

But OK. There is no pellet shortage, you just can't find the brand you want at the price you want to pay.

 

[woodmakesheat]

Ge had a billion dollar bottom line. Kept it offshore and state and local count toward the give backs as much as federal. One way or another they paid it at approximately 30.7%. And your tax rate was?

I highlighted where you said "effective Federal Rate" so I'm going with "cool" here .

 

[F4jock]

Dude, man, when I'm being charged $2.549 by my "rip-off" company and another person is paying $2.079 by their rip-off company, then you can be sure that I am being ripped off. You missed the context of my post - likely due to being riled up on your political high-horse. Chill-out, brah.

Depends on geography, transportation costs, etc. So go to the cheaper person's company . . . . Oh wait . . . . You consider them a rip-off too so . . . . You define rip-off as any price higher than what you apparently want to pay. Of course you don't want to look at the refinery cost which is now about $1.70 per gallon nor do you want to look at other costs nor have you any experience in petrochemical production but you think I'm on a high horse. I'm not going to insult you, just question the basis for your rip-off statement which, at this time, seems personal.

 

[Johnny_Fiv3]

Notice I used the word "conspiracy" in quotes implying I don't believe it.

I don't hate the word "renewable" just the context in which it is used. I would much rather use a "renewable" resource without a progressive gun of shame being held to my head. (You called me right wing, turn about is fair play.) I don't believe in global warming, climate change, drowning Polar Bears and freebies for all. There is as much valid science and economics to dispute those points as there is to aver them and as intelligent as you are I'm surprised you don't see that. BTW ExxonMobil paid an effective tax Federal tax rate of 40% last year while two years or so ago GE, the darling of my President because the CEO is a best buddy, paid nothing. Amazing how much of that horrible oil money comes back to us.

The earth will exist in some form or other until it's swallowed up by the sun or hit by an asteroid so "saving" it is not a question. There have been at least six major changes in climate well before the industrial revolution. How do you explain them? Did T-Rex drive SUVs? How will using renewable resources change variation s in the earth's magnetic field or the sun's perturbations? Humans will either adapt or become extinct as many other species have down through time. Sucks to be us.

Once again, I have no objections to your political or environmental leanings or beliefs, all I want is the courtesy to not be vilified or preached at for mine and to have that courtesy extended to others and to not be forced to comply with or adopt your lifestyle any more than you should adopt mine.

Dinosaur farts. Not SUVs. Totally was dinosaur methane emissions. [emoji39]

 

[F4jock]

I highlighted where you said "effective Federal Rate" so I'm going with "cool" here .

Well in the words of both sides of the aisle, I misspoke but if you add up all the taxes they paid and look at the actual dollars returned were I any government I'd not complain.

BTW According to Forbes, Exxon, Chevron and ConocoPhillips all paid over 40% in taxes.

 

[bags]

Now gentlemen. I think pellets are great and no shortage here but I bought more than enough back in October. I agree many lack storage and stuff to just get it over with but there are challenges in heating with any source. The big one is cash for comfort. AKA: Heat. I do agree with doing what makes sense. If oil is cheap then flip the switch and burn it. We all have to do what makes sense at any given moment in this non-stop circus we chase our tails in that can change daily at the drop of a dime.

I think we can all agree ALL politicians, ridiculous policies, stupid spending, and big businesses calling the shots sucks donkey nads. We the sheeple are merely indentured servants letting the system work us like abused crack whores taking a beating and getting screwed. Frustrating! It doesn't matter if you ride the elephant, donkey, goat, or moped. None are cool and they ALL offer a pretty piss poor ride and the fare for the blind folded joy ride costs us all way too much.

Cartoons are more realistic these days IMO.

On topic now. If I knew there would likely be a pellet shortage or was going to be a shortage of pellets in mid season I preferred then I would be thinking of ways to fix that. Finger pointing doesn't pump out much heat. It is also fair to say these stores do not want to get stuck with surplus, wet and damaged pellets too so they try to forecast that. They have no clue as to what the weather will bring. Some forecasters are not worth much either. Space is a huge factor for inventory also. Many places have trimmed up in stock items drastically these days. I see this a lot in local lumber yards. They don't want to wind up with a bunch of cull lumber that looks like a cork screw that they have problems almost giving away. Let alone sell any of it. That's just the way it is these days.

They do this for various reasons. Space, tax purposes, damage, waste, selling for a loss,,,, etc; If I lived up there I would be getting ahold of the right people at the right time so the mid season jitters gets remedied.

 

[F4jock]

Now gentlemen. I think pellets are great and no shortage here but I bought more than enough back in October. I agree many lack storage and stuff to just get it over with but there are challenges in heating with any source. The big one is cash for comfort. AKA: Heat. I do agree with doing what makes sense. If oil is cheap then flip the switch and burn it. We all have to do what makes sense at any given moment in this non-stop circus we chase our tails in that can change daily at the drop of a dime.

I think we can all agree ALL politicians, ridiculous policies, stupid spending, and big businesses calling the shots sucks donkey nads. We the sheeple are merely indentured servants letting the system work us like abused crack whores taking a beating and getting screwed. Frustrating! It doesn't matter if you ride the elephant, donkey, goat, or moped. None are cool and they ALL offer a pretty piss poor ride and the fare for the blind folded joy ride costs us all way too much.

Cartoons are more realistic these days IMO.

On topic now. If I knew there would likely be a pellet shortage or was going to be a shortage of pellets in mid season I preferred then I would be thinking of ways to fix that. Finger point doesn't pump out much heat. It is also fair to say these stores do not want to get stuck with surplus, wet and damaged pellets too so they try to forecast that. They have no clue as to what the weather will bring. Some forecasters are not worth much either. Space is a huge factor for inventory also. Many places have trimmed up in stock items drastically these days. I see this a lot in local lumber yards. They don't want to wind up with a bunch of cull lumber that looks like a cork screw that they have problems almost giving away. Let alone sell any of it. That's just the way it is these days.

They do this for various reasons. Space, tax purposes, damage, waste, selling for a loss,,,, etc; If I lived up there I would be getting ahold of the right people at the right time so the mid season jitters gets remedied.

Good points. Pellets ARE frangible, one has to pay taxes on inventory and they take up room. If you need storage space for sn early season buy, build or buy a shed or shelter.

 

[Old Spartan]

That's a bit deceptive. Right-wing sources make this claim, but more neutral sources include more information. Exxon's high tax rate is dominated by foreign, state and local taxes, their federal rate averages less than 20% over the past 5 years. GE didn't pay taxes because they didn't post a profit - and granted there are tricks to this and I don't feel sorry for them.
Exxon's Income Statement Summary:



And ...... The public is entitled to more, WHY ????

As for the Saudi, They have chosen to continue production at current flow. They are not pumping much if any above historical past production. They chose to do this to slow US production. The increase in world oil production is not derived in the Middle East. The Saudi could have at anytime they chose in the past ramped production and forced prices down. They chose not to for obvious reasons. The current maintaining of production levels should not be confused with ramping up.production.

As for the rest, while interesting ... fact is the Earth will go about its business of maintaining an ever fluctuating equilibrium that I doubt we will ever truly understand. People , as they have for 1/2 million years, will need to adapt and turning our backs on fossil fuels is not adapting and will likely be counterproductive. Technology has always been our route to a successful existence, and it has always brought unintended consequences along the way. The key is being able to use technology to overcome those unintended consequences, and of course make some more. To do otherwise means culling our populations and regressing what most consider a lifestle of comfort to strive for.

 

[F4jock]

Well said Old Spartan!

 

[woodmakesheat]

And ...... The public is entitled to more, WHY ????

Fascinating. I made no such argument. I was pointing out that a majority of taxes Exxon paid were to foreign governments that typically have higher tax rates than the USA.

 

[F4jock]

Fascinating. I made no such argument. I was pointing out that a majority of taxes Exxon paid were to foreign governments that typically have higher tax rates than the USA.

Ummmmm. The stated US corporate tax rate is the highest in the industrialized / free world. According to the world Bank it's effective rate is 27.9% for 2014 where the agregate outside is a bit over 15%. According to various sources when state and local taxes are included this rate is over 39%.

 

[hossthehermit]

Woooooohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo . the Ash Can is back

 

[Old Spartan]

Fascinating. I made no such argument. I was pointing out that a majority of taxes Exxon paid were to foreign governments that typically have higher tax rates than the USA.

No claim that you made such an argument. Simply replying to the information you provided and the context within which it was posted.

Foreign Governments do not have higher national Tax rates for the part, although they certainly tax enough at all levels just like we do.

Fact is ... NO business pays a nickel in taxes. Each and every cent is expensed, marked up, and passed right to you and me. Business tax is simply a political method of hiding tax rates from citizens. The average 6 pack assumes if it is paid by a third party (s)he is somehow omitted from the process. It is the greatest fleece since Jason.

BUT .... Back to pellets. I agree with the previous poster. "Inexpensive" pellets sold through BB are hard to come by in some regions. here in North NY the boxes were bereft of fuel for about ten days. HOWEVER, the ma and pa sellers had supply, albeit at a greater cost. Money NORMALLY alleviates supply bottlenecks.

 

[webfish]

Back on track or done...sorry it always starts slow then poof....

 

[English BoB]

Maybe you'll be saving some money burning oil at $2.19 a gallon vs buying some crap pellets for $260. Maybe its a blessing in disguise.

Oil price still high here - $3.09 gal. Wood still same price.