Financially does burning wood even make sense now or future?

[farmwithjunk]

I was thinking the other day the total cost in processing wood, stove and chimney costs and how cheap a heat pump is to run.

Home built splitter $4000?
Saws 1000+
Stove 5000
Chimney/stove pipe 3000
Hand tools 200+
$10 cord in fuel use at least

My heat pump uses 3kw per hour so even running 24/7 would only cost about $10/day. If I had to pay for wood that would be about a cord, which I can burn per month. I'm so far into it at this point that I'm not going to stop burning as much as I can but in hindsight I'm not sure if it would make sense. Even with my F5200 I still need to supplement heat since it is installed in the finished and insulated basement.

Heat pumps aren't much more than regular AC which I planned to replace anyway as I only had electric baseboard as backup.

Heat pump tech is only getting better and better with many doing 80% output even below 0F. I didn't spring for a cold climate modulating unit as it didn't make sense with wood, IMO, but without I would have.

 

[Highbeam]

I did the math and it’s always much cheaper to burn wood currently. That’s on a fuel cost and delivered heat basis. Buying the heaters is another thing and very location specific. Really, so are fuel costs.

There is very possibly a situation where a unit of heat pump heat is cheaper than wood heat.

 

[brenndatomu]

Most all the equipment involved with processing/burning wood for heat has a pretty good residual value...plus its good exercise and good for the soul. Not to mention the security of being able to stockpile years worth of heat (tax free) and being able to use it no matter the state the state of the electrical grid (for free standing stoves anyways)

 

[farmwithjunk]

Most all the equipment involved with processing/burning wood for heat has a pretty good residual value...plus its good exercise and good for the soul. Not to mention the security of being able to stockpile years worth of heat (tax free) and being able to use it no matter the state the state of the electrical grid (for free standing stoves anyways)

True there is a value to heat regardless if power is out or not and other pluses.

If I'm assuming someone has ducted central cooling then the extra cost of going heat pump when the unit is replaced is negligible over the life of the unit.

If I assume $300/month running HP 24/7 (probably double actual for Jan/Feb) vs. $250 for a cord of wood delivered it would take about 25 years to break even vs my whole wood setup and processing. This would include two heat pump replacements ($1000, cost over standard AC).

 

[NHWS]

I also did the math and found that a simple view of the payback period for my stove (v. my NG furnace) was around 4 to 5 years, assuming that the cost of NG does not change. Having to pay for wood would make a significant difference.

The fuel v. fixed cost payback doesn't consider everything. My furnace was installed about 10 years ago. It's been repaired 3 times. Each time cost $500+ and meant going without heat for 2 to 4 months during the coldest part of the year. The next repair may take longer; the supply issues of the recent past are still delaying HVAC repairs. It may be that my NG furnace is unusually unreliable, but some of my neighbors have reported similar experiences. The stove relegates the NG furnace to a secondary heat source, which may reduce the frequency of repairs and delay the need to completely replace it with some new secondary heat source.

The recovery of some of the stove cost if/when I sell the house is also not considered in the simple payback calculation.

My area also has occasional longish power failures. The worst, a few years ago, was a bit longer than 2 weeks. The stove should keep the house much warmer if/when there is another outage.

 

[farmwithjunk]

I also did the math and found that a simple view of the payback period for my stove (v. my NG furnace) was around 4 to 5 years, assuming that the cost of NG does not change. Having to pay for wood would make a significant difference.

The fuel v. fixed cost payback doesn't consider everything. My furnace was installed about 10 years ago. It's been repaired 3 times. Each time cost $500+ and meant going without heat for 2 to 4 months during the coldest part of the year. The next repair may take longer; the supply issues of the recent past are still delaying HVAC repairs. It may be that my NG furnace is unusually unreliable, but some of my neighbors have reported similar experiences. The stove relegates the NG furnace to a secondary heat source, which may reduce the frequency of repairs and delay the need to completely replace it with some new secondary heat source.

The recovery of some of the stove cost if/when I sell the house is also not considered in the simple payback calculation.

My area also has occasional longish power failures. The worst, a few years ago, was a bit longer than 2 weeks. The stove should keep the house much warmer if/when there is another outage.

I don't have natural gas available so it's electric or propane. Wood makes more sense in my situation beith higher costs than natural gas but that's changing.

I figure pre-heatpump I used about $50 on electric baseboard heat for 2000+ square feet so obviously fuel only costs wood is saving me a lot.

 

[ABMax24]

You must have really cheap electricity. We're about $0.40/kwh right now on the regulated rate option. Using your example the stove and all equipment is paid for in about 2 heating seasons.

For me it's a free hobby, the cost savings offsets the fuel and consumable costs to get and process the wood and covers the cost of the saw. Eventually it will pay for the stove, but that'll be about 10-15 years.

Natural gas costs me about $11 per million BTU. I burnt 48 million BTU of NG last year (this includes cooking, clothes dryer, and water heater), and around 40 million BTU of wood (space heating only).

For the time and effort I put into it it's certainly not worth the cost. Albeit our gas cost will increase another $9 per million BTU by 2030 due to carbon tax. At that time it'll be more worth while.

 

[farmwithjunk]

You must have really cheap electricity. We're about $0.40/kwh right now on the regulated rate option. Using your example the stove and all equipment is paid for in about 2 heating seasons.

For me it's a free hobby, the cost savings offsets the fuel and consumable costs to get and process the wood and covers the cost of the saw. Eventually it will pay for the stove, but that'll be about 10-15 years.

Natural gas costs me about $11 per million BTU. I burnt 48 million BTU of NG last year (this includes cooking, clothes dryer, and water heater), and around 40 million BTU of wood (space heating only).

For the time and effort I put into it it's certainly not worth the cost. Albeit our gas cost will increase another $9 per million BTU by 2030 due to carbon tax. At that time it'll be more worth while.

I'm at 15 cents a kwh so almost 1/3 of yours.

 

[Highbeam]

Buying processed wood ready to burn is a major cripple. If your power is cheap, mine is 11 cents per kWh, that’s even more towards just using a very efficient heat pump. You already have all the equipment so just look at fuel cost per delivered btu and realize that your heat pump will be less efficient as outdoor temperatures drop. Switch back and forth to use the cheapest heat day by day.

 

[peakbagger]

My firewood supply is in the way. My wood boiler was free for the removal and its replacement was bought used. I did pay retail for my thermal storage tank and the house had the flue for wood burning. I use my saw for timberstand improvement and on occasion prepping wood for a friend sawmill. Someone bought me my log splitter for helping him sheath a roof and shingle it (he is now getting ready to burn full time and now uses the splitter).

Its a lifestyle, when folks ask me about burning where they have never burned in their lives and will need a new stove and chimney I usually discuss solar and a minisplit as a good option.

 

[ExxWhy]

Definitely a lifestyle. For me, it's a tremendous savings. Hot water baseboard heating, using oil was easily over 1000 gallons per winter. (no ductwork in house) No problem when oil was $.65 per gallon. With the wood boiler, I haven't burned a drop of oil in 4 years and my wood is "free". Plus we now keep the house comfy warm 72-75. I also get the free gym membership to process the free wood.

 

[EbS-P]

Well… you don’t need a splitter 50$ ax will do. You don’t need a pro saw. 200$ will do. Good new stoves can be had for $1800-$2200 (i haven’t seen reviews of price on Englander since SBI buyout).

I too have a heat pump. Once the 10 kw heat strips kick on even for a defrost cycle (the defrost cycle consumes as much electricity as the just the heat pump does cycling for an hour at 30 degrees outside. )

I will never pay off my stove. I save maybe 50$ a month December-February. Then I bought a second because the basement was cold.

But, and hear me out in this as I think it has merit, I do believe using the heatpump less will extend its useful life. Maintenance is critical. Don’t skip that We have more heating degree days down here than cooling so does anyone more of the SC/NC border. I’m guessing I run the heatpump 30% fewer hours a year. Figure a replacement is $10k for me, that’s a $3000 dollar saving over the life of the appliance. Wood stove should outlast the heatpump by a factor of two. I’m hoping to get 20 years out of my heatpump.

 

[BigJ273]

Burning wood definitely comes at a cost. It’s a TON of work. I find that I can keep my house MUCH warmer than if I ran the heat. If I have the heat on, it’s set at 67. If I’m burning wood, I can keep it around 75. That comes with a price. Splitting, stacking, moving, tending to the stove, all of that.

 

[begreen]

Purchased wood here is $400/cord these days. It keeps going up too. Electric costs have gone up much slower. The stove is going on its 15th season so it is fully amortized. Side note, I have spent more on wood splitter maintenance than on the stove so far.

At 11¢/kwh, the electricity cost to run our heat pump is negligible in the shoulder season which also burns about 3 kw/h when running. In 50º weather it only runs about 2 hrs per day if there is no sun and some wind. If it ran 12 hrs per day that would only be $3.36/day. If it ran 24/7 it would only be $6.72/day. Considering the bulk of our winter is in the 30-40º range, a heat pump makes a lot of sense in this region.

Our HP system was an excellent, 2 stage unit back in 2006 but there are much more efficient units out there today. It's only useful down to about 30º. We will be looking at updating the system next year to a modern high-efficiency HP.

 

[guylavoie]

If your main reason for wood burning is to save money on heating, you'll be disappointed. You have to see it as a lifestyle, a hobby which has the side benefit of producing heat that you'd otherwise pay for. Many hobbies provide no useful benefit at all so that's already one perk, but above all, you have to enjoy it for what it is. I do. There's something about being next to a nice warm fire during a cold winter day that few other activities will provide. A sense of self sufficiency, preparedness now paying off, a physical activity, having heat if there is a power failure, etc etc.

 

[EbS-P]

I like this heating cost calculator

Residential Heating System Cost Calculator | Efficiency Maine

Our heating cost comparison calculator can help you estimate your annual home heating costs for different heating systems.

www.efficiencymaine.com

 

[begreen]

If your main reason for wood burning is to save money on heating, you'll be disappointed. You have to see it as a lifestyle, a hobby which has the side benefit of producing heat that you'd otherwise pay for. Many hobbies provide no useful benefit at all so that's already one perk, but above all, you have to enjoy it for what it is. I do. There's something about being next to a nice warm fire during a cold winter day that few other activities will provide. A sense of self sufficiency, preparedness now paying off, a physical activity, having heat if there is a power failure, etc etc.

Agreed. There are intrinsic benefits to a wood fire that are physical and aesthetic. And the value of heat during an extended power outage can be priceless. If a hobby provides enjoyment, then that's a benefit. One that may actually improve one's mental and possibly physical health.

 

[farmwithjunk]

Well… you don’t need a splitter 50$ ax will do. You don’t need a pro saw. 200$ will do. Good new stoves can be had for $1800-$2200 (i haven’t seen reviews of price on Englander since SBI buyout).

I too have a heat pump. Once the 10 kw heat strips kick on even for a defrost cycle (the defrost cycle consumes as much electricity as the just the heat pump does cycling for an hour at 30 degrees outside. )

I will never pay off my stove. I save maybe 50$ a month December-February. Then I bought a second because the basement was cold.

But, and hear me out in this as I think it has merit, I do believe using the heatpump less will extend its useful life. Maintenance is critical. Don’t skip that We have more heating degree days down here than cooling so does anyone more of the SC/NC border. I’m guessing I run the heatpump 30% fewer hours a year. Figure a replacement is $10k for me, that’s a $3000 dollar saving over the life of the appliance. Wood stove should outlast the heatpump by a factor of two. I’m hoping to get 20 years out of my heatpump.

The free wood from the tree companies here cannot be split with an axe. I even bent the 1" thick wedge trying to use a 6 way wedge on my splitter. I'm talking logs over 2 feet in diameter of hardwood. I'm not saying its impossible but you'd be working an entire weekend for a cord when I can do that in less than 2 hours with a splitter.

Best thing to extend life of the heatpump IMO is a smart thermostat and changing the differential from half a degree to much higher. I have mine set for 2 degrees past set-point and 1 degree below for cooling. This means it kicks on MUCH less but only runs a little longer. Hottest day of the year, above design temp, mine only ran 6 times. Start-up is what is hard on the compressors as they can run continuous without issue.

 

[bigealta]

My costs are quite different
Wood splitter $0 (use 40 year old maul)
Saws $100 (used Stihl 029) Had for many years, still running great
Stove $250 (used jotul 3) then replaced with $1,400 (used Jotul f400).
(So stove is $1,650 total for 20 years of burning in current home.)
Stove pipe $100, i only needed single wall to connect to existing flue pipe
Hand tools Maybe $100
Gas for saw & suv to transport wood $50-100 per year.
TIME TO PROCESS IS THE MOST COSTLY by FAR

i would probably burn 700-1000 gallons of oil for heat per year without stove.
With the stove i usually burn 50-100 gallons per year.

So wood is a much better deal for me considering i like cutting and processing wood and am not loosing paid income from time spent processing.

 

[farmwithjunk]

Purchased wood here is $400/cord these days. It keeps going up too. Electric costs have gone up much slower. The stove is going on its 15th season so it is fully amortized. Side note, I have spent more on wood splitter maintenance than on the stove so far.

At 11¢/kwh, the electricity cost to run our heat pump is negligible in the shoulder season which also burns about 3 kw/h when running. In 50º weather it only runs about 2 hrs per day if there is no sun and some wind. If it ran 12 hrs per day that would only be $3.36/day. If it ran 24/7 it would only be $6.72/day. Considering the bulk of our winter is in the 30-40º range, a heat pump makes a lot of sense in this region.

Our HP system was an excellent, 2 stage unit back in 2006 but there are much more efficient units out there today. It's only useful down to about 30º. We will be looking at updating the system next year to a modern high-efficiency HP.

Purchased wood and your electric rates burning wood would cost twice as much as than a high efficiency heatpump/minisplit.

 

[Highbeam]

I like this heating cost calculator

Residential Heating System Cost Calculator | Efficiency Maine

Our heating cost comparison calculator can help you estimate your annual home heating costs for different heating systems.

www.efficiencymaine.com

That has to be the worst calculator I've ever seen. Way too much black box trickery to push their agenda. You can't even see or set the efficiencies of the various appliances. They obviously penalize ducted heat pumps vs. ductless with a black box duct loss figure that is not shown.

There are much better calculators out there. Much better and without a likely bias.

 

[Highbeam]

My costs are quite different
Wood splitter $0 (use 40 year old maul)
Saws $100 (used Stihl 029) Had for many years, still running great
Stove $250 (used jotul 3) then replaced with $1,400 (used Jotul f400).
(So stove is $1,650 total for 20 years of burning in current home.)
Stove pipe $100, i only needed single wall to connect to existing flue pipe
Hand tools Maybe $100
Gas for saw & suv to transport wood $50-100 per year.
TIME TO PROCESS IS THE MOST COSTLY by FAR

i would probably burn 700-1000 gallons of oil for heat per year without stove.
With the stove i usually burn 50-100 gallons per year.

So wood is a much better deal for me considering i like cutting and processing wood and am not loosing paid income from time spent processing.

Trying to put a value on your time spent processing wood or even loading the stove is difficult if not unreasonable. Only if you would otherwise be doing paid work can you value your time at anything above zero. In fact, your time has negative value if you are avoiding paying to go to a gym for exercise.

 

[begreen]

The switch to wood heat was a no brainer. The house had propane forced air when we bought it. At $.90/gal it wasn't horrible to heat, but that cost went up every year. In 5 yrs it was up to $1.40/gal. That's when I pulled the plug on propane. The cost of heating the house was approaching $2,000/yr, even with the little Jotul supplementing. By now the cost to heat with propane would be around $5,000 per year. That thought makes buying wood less painful.

It pains me to not be able to scrounge good wood. There has been a lot of good free wood around lately but it doesn't matter. My body no longer allows me to muscle around big rounds and my sons are grown and on their own, so those days are past. I still have the tools and will probably be selling my splitter soon. Fortunately, I can still stack wood and haul it to the house in a cart if my knees aren't acting up. We like wood heat in the cold of the winter and enjoy the glow of a good fire so it will still be burning for as long as we are able.

 

[begreen]

That has to be the worst calculator I've ever seen. Way too much black box trickery to push their agenda. You can't even see or set the efficiencies of the various appliances. They obviously penalize ducted heat pumps vs. ductless with a black box duct loss figure that is not shown.

There are much better calculators out there. Much better and without a likely bias.

I thought the same, but I found that you can set a few variables in the "Set Details" section under distribution efficiency. When I changed the firewood details to softwood heat output instead of a good hardwood, the heat pump became the better value, especially if the stove is in the typical 70% efficiency range. By that calculated result, the central heat pump was almost 100% cheaper than bought firewood.

 

[Highbeam]

I thought the same, but I found that you can set a few variables in the "Set Details" section under distribution efficiency. When I changed the firewood details to softwood heat output instead of a good hardwood, the heat pump became the better value, especially if the stove is in the typical 70% efficiency range. By that calculated result, the central heat pump was almost 100% cheaper than bought firewood.

Oh good, then there's still the garbage in garbage out problem. I could put 80% efficiency for my BK, and 120$ per cord that I pay for "hardwood". Then put the higher 14 cents per KWH that we are charged when we exceed 600kwh per month at 11 cents. Then of course you need to put in an efficiency for the heat pump. At low temperatures the efficiency or COP is only like 200%.

I propose that there is a curve of cost per kwh for heat pump heat depending on outdoor temperatures. That curve is sometimes below and sometimes above the cost of wood heat for most folks.